Why make a scrapper when you can make a brute?
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Even single stacked, Rage would mean significantly more for Scrappers than for Brutes. Not only would it be buffing Scrappers' 1.125 AT damage scale instead of Brutes' 0.75 AT damage scale, but Scrappers also have a higher damage buff scale, so Scrappers would get a 100% damage buff instead of the 80% buff Brutes (and Tankers) get. The net result is that Scrappers would effectively get 1.125 extra damage from Rage for every 0.6 extra damage Brutes get.|
Originally Posted by SBeaudway
A fair point, but I'd suggest double stacking Rage is the issue though.
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Would the result be broken? Dunno, but the port would at least require some extra scrutiny beyond what most other power proliferations need, and the devs are strapped for time right now, so I'm not holding my breath. Hoping, yeah, holding my breath, no.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
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Ya, I get that, but MA has a lot more finesse with it, and you could argue BS is heavy and lumbering and would make a good brute set. You'd be right. I see the trend in proliforating *all* sets. My opinion is more of a relic at this point.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Martial Arts smashes you in the face
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Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
You can throw out any data, any numbers, but at the end of the day, the two ATs are not the same.
I enjoy playing both ATs, and what keeps me interested is the different play styles of each one. What's nice about playing a scrapper is when I can't sit down and play non-stop, if I'm dealing with the kids, or whatnot.
Then there is the different combos to chose from, and this is why I haven't been a 100% supporter or power proliferation...if only to maintain some uniqueness to ATs.
I don't think one can be replaced with the other, except only in the mindset that you are filling a melee based damage dealer...and only that.
Don't I know you???
I can only say:
The bold play stalkers!
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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This. All the reason I will ever need.|
Originally Posted by SkarmoryThePG
Because I hate Fury.
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I might get marginally higher performance out of a brute, but my SL50 scrappers are infinitely more fun to play than my TL50 brute.
I do desperately wish I could get SS on a scrapper, though.
To OP:
In PvP, Scrappers fair a lot better because no one is just going to stand there and let a Brute build Fury. Scrappers can also gank squishy a lot easier than Brutes, simply because their base damage is much higher than that of a Brute. Scrappers also have crits that can be extremely handy at times.
Also, if it's a Scrapper VS Brute in PvP, anyone with a brain would try to kite a Brute and not just stand there for him to build up Fury.
As for PvE, Brutes can build up Fury pretty quickly so I don't really see how Scrappers are better in this scenario. Brutes can also fill in the Tanker role a lot easier than Scrappers as well.
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I agree, only real men play Stalkers!
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Originally Posted by Test_Rat
I can only say:
The bold play stalkers! |
Heh I was just thinking, the OP should be why make a scrapper when you can make a stalker!
Electric/Nin for the win!
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Now, with all of this in mind...
Why make a brute when you can make a scrapper and take the flashy sadistic patron pools and walk the line between blue AND red.
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
Brutes, regardless of fury, can accept more damage buffs to take them to their phenomenally high cap. Team friendly.
Scrappers, while also team friendly, have more reliable damage and criticals are gravy. Just not as high a cap. Better for soloing IMO.
So when I knockout blow at the damage cap, I giggle. But when I hit Golden Dragonfly after BU and Fiery Embrace and it criticals, I smile so wide it hurts. 
The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
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I want to mix Brutes and Doms and make Brutinators! |
Originally Posted by Frosticus
I think we need a fourth melee AT. A Scruter.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
P.
Sure, people will still play what they want, but for how long? Once the fire/XXX brutes start proliferating, we're going to see another rush like we say with shield defense. ...or maybe I'm wrong. We will see. |
For all those numbers, in all of my (extensive) redside play - I would say Fire Melee is one of the lesser encountered primaries.
I don't see that changing.
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Originally Posted by Candlestick
Eh, thing is, the Scrappers Unique sets are not anywhere near as good as Brutes. Spines would be the only one that comes close.
Just imagine if they ported SS to scrappers, unchanged. It would pretty much dominate all other sets. |
You forgot the Sword Sets there chief, which leaves...MA.
To which I'll toss out EM.
For all of the huffing and puffing about DPS comparisons, I'd say most players never even come close to building and maintaining a level of play to get to that elusive top end.
And even when you do, if you team, there will be situations that hinder Fury.
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Yeah, we all know what happened with that big Controller/Defender disparity.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
There've been some good points made here, but from where I'm sitting it looks like the general public leans towards following the fad... and the fads follow the numbers.
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Oh, wait...
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I have tried to like brutes and furry it is not hard to build up I just do not enjoy chasing furry. I rather be able to ramp up right away and if I need to take a break cause of real life I can start at full throttle from go.
I have tried many of brutes I get no where quick before I just go back to blue side and make a scrapper
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
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This.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
For all of the huffing and puffing about DPS comparisons, I'd say most players never even come close to building and maintaining a level of play to get to that elusive top end.
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Most people don't care if they have high DPS. Even when they IO out their toons. They usually care either more about defenses or getting all the purples they can (which don't help defenses at all).
For all that talk about high DPS a majority of players simply don't care if they can solo AV/GMs and some barely want to solo.
And when you get a team together, you can usually take out the AV, without anyone on the team having the uber DPS build.
This is me seeing this playing on Virtue however. Maybe the other servers are different. And I'm notsaying Virtue doesnt have players who want high DPS/Survival builds to solo such content, I would however say it falls into the 1% of the population.
For the people who've come to me on help on their builds, they've all wanted just one thing...to be more survival. Uber damage DPS is just a nice benefit if it can be fitted in over all that.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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What are you being all sorry for? I haven't seen you abuse my numbers. Not yet, anyway. Give it time. I hear there's even a badge for it.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I'm so, so sorry Arcanaville.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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The sword sets are not anywhere near as good as SS.
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You forgot the Sword Sets there chief, which leaves...MA. To which I'll toss out EM. |
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Oh fine. ANOTHER badge they refuse to give me.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What are you being all sorry for? I haven't seen you abuse my numbers. Not yet, anyway. Give it time. I hear there's even a badge for it.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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So, for survivability, you believe that SS is superior? For damage, specifically AoE, I will agree with you. However, Kat/ and BS/ allow for many secondaries to do what would be blatently impossible for the same secondaries with SS as the primary.
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Originally Posted by Candlestick
The sword sets are not anywhere near as good as SS.
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I wouldn't necessarily say they are "not anywhere near as good", its more of a play style preference. It also depends on how much your willing to invest into your toon. If you want to softcap early and hit some other bonuses, the sword sets really pick up the slack. But if your more worried about damage, SS comes in. |
Originally Posted by Candlestick
The sword sets are not anywhere near as good as SS.
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I think that as a scrapper, SS would tear it up, but I suppose that's a whole other horse
Edit: Gaidin beat me to it.
Flux Tempest-Electric Melee/Willpower
Zaunte's Rage-Claws/Invulnerability
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You know, it's funny. Just a week or so ago, someone made a post in the Brute forums asking if Brutes will be obsolete when everyone can roll scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Tongz
Once Going Rogue hits, will Scrappers be obsolete? Should I delete my level 24 elec/*? Which ARE cuter, kittens or puppies?!?
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The answer to both is, of course, no.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Imagine porting /regen to brutes unchanged with their hit points. Scrappers have good sets, not all of them are primaries.
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Originally Posted by Candlestick
Eh, thing is, the Scrappers Unique sets are not anywhere near as good as Brutes. Spines would be the only one that comes close.
Just imagine if they ported SS to scrappers, unchanged. It would pretty much dominate all other sets. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Imagine porting /regen to brutes unchanged with their hit points. Scrappers have good sets, not all of them are primaries.
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... oh nevermind.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Aw, now don't be casting aspersions. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't regret the post. I regret how some people bastardize the data to suit their purposes.
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| Fire on a brute is so high, where fire on a scrapper isn't, because Castle has yet to go in and correct the failure of Fire's DoT not being affected by crits. |
NEEDS IT.
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| The data is sound. How people interpret the data is often inept. |
I'm just pointing out the facts, that do not support the conclusion of the thread.Fact: The best brute set does way more dps than the best scrapper set, for less end. Even if I lay off hitting that hot button, on average, brutes STILL do more damage.
Fact: Brutes have higher hitpoints. This does not balance out their extra damage.
Fact: Brutes have higher buff caps. This also does not balance out their extra damage.
Yes, scrappers have more End tools at their disposal, (thank you devs for physical perfection, we luv it!) but I will counter by pointing solemnly at gloom.
Are brutes End starved enough to make them balanced? I sure don't think so.
Don't get me wrong, I love scrappers to death. But the numbers do not lie, despite how ineptly you think I'm handling them.
(fumble fumble thumble drop....)
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And this? You just go right on believing that. People believe stupid things all the time. |
People post numbers in that thread. Then they post better, or worse, numbers, and the only difference was....what? Their fingers were tired?
Little more than hearsay. I'm sorry if that disturbs you.
Martial Arts smashes you in the face
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread