Why make a scrapper when you can make a brute?

Deus_Otiosus · 07-18-2010 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarrate

Think about what you're saying here, for just a moment...

You're saying a Brute (who has less survivability than a Tanker) should not be allowing the Tanker (who has the best survivability) to get into the mob first (ie: take the alpha strike when the mobs are the most dangerous).

It's less about "not allowing" the Tanker and more about enabling yourself to perform as close to optimal as possible.

There is no substitute for generating Fury like incoming attacks.

Not every Brute, especially prior to L50 or pre-IOs, will be capable of this.

Of course that's never stopped most redside teams from forcing brutes into that role vs. generally harder content than is found on Blueside, but that's another discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarrate

Further, you're saying that a Tanker should never Taunt off a Brute - but if a Brute takes the alpha strike, they'll have up to 17 mobs attacking them. Unless the spawn is 34 mobs or more, the Brute will have more aggro than the Tanker (since he shouldn't Taunt off the Brute).

What I'm saying is that if the brute can survive the aggro they generate, a Tanker taunting off them is basically a hinderance to the Brute's performance - and that also cuts down on the teams damage dealing capabilities as well.

In contrast, a Brute who survives that alpha and maintains aggro "enough" hasn't really hurt the teams performance.

I would also argue that if the team is only fighting groups of 17 mobs at once, they probably didn't need both a Tanker and a Brute (or two of either for that matter).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanker

This boils down to the Tanker wasting their survivability so the Brute can fuel Fury and only using their aggro generation to keep squishies safe (a job Brutes can't lower themselves to).

I thought keeping squishes safe was a Tanker's primary focus?

I find it funny when Tankers (in game) seem to rankle at this idea, the selfless, squishy protector role vs. the alpha taking spotlight role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarrate

I'm being a bit melodramatic above (and I can understand why a Brute wants to do those things), but there is a big problem there. One of my biggest pet peeves with Brutes (and Scrapper with taunt auras) is threat generation. They have the same threat mod, taunt mod (ie: duration), taunt mags (largely irrelevant), and single target Gauntlet while dealing more damage (damage is a large component of threat calculations). If a Brute wants aggro (ie: uses Taunt), there is not a damn thing a Tanker can do about it.

I'm not saying Tankers should just sneeze and hold aggro. I don't care if they have to work for it. But being 100% incapable of holding it is completely borked.

Well, I would say much much fewer Brutes take taunt as compared to tankers.

Partially because a high end Brute build is a bit tighter than a tanker build, because Brutes generate more than enough threat in most situations just through damage, and because they have some excellent choices in their PPPs.

I also think that a lot of brutes will be fine with Tankers taking aggro, especially on the road to 50.

I don't play that way myself, but I imagine some do.

Tankers aren't 100% incapable of holding aggro, but against a taunt focused Brute, yes they can have issues.

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it's a huge deal.

Tankers have a level or resilience, and get such huge numbers out of defense and resistance powers that they can have a completely functional build for what is effectively chump change.

If you want to have an aggro holding, room clearing, monster Brute - you're looking at a much larger investment.

And even after a couple of billion invested in a brute, tankers are still more resilient.

I think the main issue for Tankers in the coming future of this game is the ability to leverage that resilience to it's maximum effect.

I think it will require something better than just giving them more taunt, or higher threat.

Evil_Legacy · 07-18-2010 06:35 PM

to me brutes and scraps play similiar but different.
plus I just like villian side and sometime the fury bar fits into my concept.
Fury bar rises to increase damage for more power while scraps get a chance for about double. that mechanism alone is enough for me to playeither or or both. bot hare good to me.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

Fire_Minded · 07-18-2010 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tongz

Here it is, guys... the big question. Has it been asked before? Probably. Has it been answered in full? Not that I know of. So, it's still on the table.

What advantages does a scrapper have over a brute? Brutes have about the same amount of HP and do more damage. On top of that, if we're imagining, say, a brute vs. scrapper PVP match, the brute will be building rage the whole time... and eventually out DPS the scrap. In PVE, the damage differences are huge, and the brutes have arguably better defenses.

Once Going Rogue hits, will Scrappers be obsolete? Should I delete my level 24 elec/*? Which ARE cuter, kittens or puppies?!?

No reason to delete your Elec/** for a brute at all.You may want to remake it into a Stalker and team with it for a additional +21% Crit Chance to all your solo base crit %s for the Stalker.