Super Boost: Excuse for bad manners?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-07 05:49 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
You mean Speed Boost?
IMO, I buff as the team needs it. I don't wait for asking or thank you's. If a player doesn't want it and tells me, I won't give it to them.
Yes, Speed Boost. Didn't sleep much, thanks for the correction.
On my stoner, It makes life much easier, and always thank the person applying it. I never ask though. On my kin, I find people repeatedly asking mildly annoying. ...There may be a reason I am not applying it to you Right the F now.
This seems to come up quite often, although your approach is one I haven't seen before.
Personally, I rolled a /kin knowing that I would spend a fair amount of time SBing. It comes with the territory. I appreciate it when someone says thanks, am happy to have the occasional request when I don't remember it's dropped and keep it off people who say they don't want it.
If you take that approach you might want to warn your team before hand and get ready for hearing SB Plz every 90 seconds from 7 people. I find it easier just to dish it out.
And yeah, manners are nice, but do you thank the tank every time he taunts? I'm happy to have the occasional 'TY for the buffs' or 'good tanking' than a constant stream of 'thank you' and 'can I have [buff of your choice] this please?'
I do understand the need for manners and for someone to feel grateful to the gift of SB you are giving them, I feel the same way sometimes, however, the SB power has a pretty quick recharge and helps the team greatly. If you have it and don't use it, you aren't playing as a teammate should. It is just like being a healer but letting someone die because they didn't ask to be healed. My kin that I have, I just ask if everyone is ok with SB, for those that say no, I don't hit them up.
I understand making a kin is not great in the early levels and making one is for the benefit of the team so with any type of support role such as a healer, kin, or even a debuffer, the team should have manners and show their appreciation for that buffer/debuffer.
As far as the team asking for the buff when it runs out, if someone notices a buff is running out, such as SB or Bubbles, then they should alert the buffer but also with a thank you or please at least. Not everyone can understand manners through typing so use those keywords will help everyone.
This is all In My Opinion and how I choose to play with others, not everyone feels the same way I do.
I do actually take the time to thank tankers for holding the aggro. And yeah, I do inform the team before hand and if I see that they really need it I'll give it to them. Today was an extreme case, just wanted to make a point to the tanker who was doing perfectly fine before being SBed at all.
See this thread for the current debate
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On my Kin I often ask before a mission "Okay anyone don't want SB?"
But I don't always remember to hit the power. It's a tool like any other and when it's needed I'm going to boost.
On the flip side a few of my characters I request NOT to be SBed. Main reason is I don't want to be lining up a cone shot and get blasted with SB and over adjust the angle. Or if I'm on a taunter and get SBed when going into a mob and argo two groups by mistake.
The other players should thank you once, maybe for it. Do you thank an Emp each time he hits you with Fortitude, or a heal? Do you thank the bubbler each time he bubbles you? Do you thank the Scrapper each time he kills a boss? Or a Tanker taunts? Or a controller locks down that troublesome enemy?
Why is Speed Boost so different? Yes, it can help. But I wouldn't expect a thank you for doing what the Powerset you choose is probably most well-known for.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I feel the same about this as I would about having to ask the Force Fielder to use her shields or the Empath to use Fortitude. Basically, you rolled it, you roll with it. I've never been one to beg for buffs but generally if I have to ask it means I'd probably have prefered a different Kin.
On the other hand I know that Speed Boost is kind of a pain to keep sustained. It's mainly when we go through the whole mission, kill the epic bosses, and beat the AV without a Speed Boost in sight that I tend to take note and think "wait that guy was a Kin, right...?"
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Hehe, np. I have a couple of kins too and you got worried that I forgot to take something LOL! |
Originally Posted by Archos
Yes, Speed Boost. Didn't sleep much, thanks for the correction.
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I will always say: Good work after each mission and when I think that the tanking or buffing or healing or debuffing(hope I don't forget something) is specifically good I'll make sure to say something about that too. I always thank people if they saved my butt in the nick of time or make sure that I can go on even if I am defeated(aka revive me or give me an awaken). But thanking for an individual buff like speed boost every time it's given?
No...which doesn't mean I don't appreciate a SB but with powers and buffs flying all around I'll be thanking everyone all the time and not fighting which kinda negates the point of having a buff active.(yes, highly exaggerated I know).
Speed boost is the main reason why I don't play a /kin though. I also never ask for it and certainly not in terms like: SB Plz....all the time...even when they already have it...
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This kinda sounds like being an empath and expecting other to ask and then say thank you every time they want heal other on them.
Just saying.
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Without getting into the whole issue of SB (or any other buffs) being expected or demanded, the above action smacks of being a major prima donna, and I personally wouldn't tolerate such behavior from any buffer on a team I was leading.
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Originally Posted by Archos
My argument is that I refused to SB them unless they ask for it and say thank you afterwards.
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This wouldn't be such a big deal if buffs lasted a while and you didn't have to reapply them every other minute.
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True... But what are you willing to give up for that increased convenience? Quadruple the duration and cut the endurance and recharge buff from +50% to +20%?|
Originally Posted by Athanatosis
This wouldn't be such a big deal if buffs lasted a while and you didn't have to reapply them every other minute.
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Speed Boost is a powerful buff, that lasts a short time. Pure speculation on my part, but I would guess the intent behind the duration, is that it is not intended to be used as a perma buff to an entire team, rather than being used only when necessary on a limited number of team members. Yes, it CAN be used to keep an entire team constantly buffed, but requires sacrifices on the part of the buffer. Take away that, and something, somewhere has to be given up in exchange for the sake of balance.
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I agree with this completely IF the OP was saying that they needed to ask/thank EVERY TIME. Politeness is nice, to a point. I have a keybind, shift+t that says "Thanks!" that I use when appropriate, getting a fortune, or getting rezzed, gratz'd or something out of the ordinary. I don't thank a teamate for every buff, but I do thank them for critical buffs that may have helped keep me and/or the team alive and functioning.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Without getting into the whole issue of SB (or any other buffs) being expected or demanded, the above action smacks of being a major prima donna, and I personally wouldn't tolerate such behavior from any buffer on a team I was leading.
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If I'm the buffer I don't mind the team letting me know if the buff's drop and need to be re-applied, but SB is one of those ones that people can be especially demanding of. Now I know why some people call it "crack". I actually avoid playing my eart/kin 'troller sometimes because it's just not worth the effort...
SB (and Kinetics in general) can be a tough introduction to a support toon. I know I hated playing one, to the point that I deleted my level 50 ill/kin 
(this was before we could purchase more character slots, or move characters to other servers).
That said, you're playing a support toon. Your role on the team is to buff/heal your allies, and/or debuff or otherwise impede your enemies. Your teammates shouldn't have to say please and thank you just to get you to do your job. If I was the team leader, I would make it clear that you should either buff, or leave - unless you were obviously very new to the game. I was just a team member...dunno...SB is good, but I can get by without it.
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Hate to bring up WoW, but when the new team took over recently they changed all the 2 minute buffs to 15-30 minute buffs because they realized how annoying it was for people to have to put them up all the time. |
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
True... But what are you willing to give up for that increased convenience? Quadruple the duration and cut the endurance and recharge buff from +50% to +20%?
Speed Boost is a powerful buff, that lasts a short time. Pure speculation on my part, but I would guess the intent behind the duration, is that it is not intended to be used as a perma buff to an entire team, rather than being used only when necessary on a limited number of team members. Yes, it CAN be used to keep an entire team constantly buffed, but requires sacrifices on the part of the buffer. Take away that, and something, somewhere has to be given up in exchange for the sake of balance. |
As it stands, without taking much away from their overall performance kins can keep the entire team speed boosted indefinitely. A lot of people expect as much from them, or at least close to it. It makes buff classes overall less desirable to play because it's so annoying having to buff that often. Either you take away from the team's potential to succeed or to steamroll, or you put yourself out and deal with the constant annoyance of buffing 7 other people so frequently.
I see where you're coming from but what you're saying is that SB should take away from the overall performance of a class, in the name of balance, because they have to spend so much time keeping it up if they want to have it up most of the time. That's not right. That's not fun for anyone. Would anyone really complain if SB was exactly the same just with a much longer duration? I don't think that's the kind of "overpowered" people get jealous over. It's only beneficial to them... Much more kins would use SB and keep it up (without even expecting people to beg for it, like OP!) The only complaint I could see is that the other buff classes still have to buff everyone every two minutes, in which case they should just change most of those buffs to have longer durations as well.
Hell, I'd even be happy with them just making it a "buff one person and everyone else gets it" buff. That way it's less of a hassle for the person in charge of it.
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Originally Posted by Athanatosis
Hate to bring up WoW, but when the new team took over recently they changed all the 2 minute buffs to 15-30 minute buffs because they realized how annoying it was for people to have to put them up all the time.
As it stands, without taking much away from their overall performance kins can keep the entire team speed boosted indefinitely. A lot of people expect as much from them, or at least close to it. It makes buff classes overall less desirable to play because it's so annoying having to buff that often. Either you take away from the team's potential to succeed or to steamroll, or you put yourself out and deal with the constant annoyance of buffing 7 other people so frequently. I see where you're coming from but what you're saying is that SB should take away from the overall performance of a class, in the name of balance, because they have to spend so much time keeping it up if they want to have it up most of the time. That's not right. That's not fun for anyone. Would anyone really complain if SB was exactly the same just with a much longer duration? I don't think that's the kind of "overpowered" people get jealous over. It's only beneficial to them... Much more kins would use SB and keep it up (without even expecting people to beg for it, like OP!) The only complaint I could see is that the other buff classes still have to buff everyone every two minutes, in which case they should just change most of those buffs to have longer durations as well. Hell, I'd even be happy with them just making it a "buff one person and everyone else gets it" buff. That way it's less of a hassle for the person in charge of it. |
I think the duration should be longer. Agreed.
The way I'd achieve it though is to make the base duration the same but have the power refresh duration if the original caster hits them with Transfusion (the AoE heal) while the power is active. That way people couldn't just gather under the Atlas Statue and get their 30 minute long buffs (a significant problem in some games). You'd have to actually stick wit the buffer. This also protects buffing ATs from getting stuck buffing teams at mission entrances and then left behind so the "real" ATs can go take care of business.
I'd approach Force Field, Sonic Res (refresh if they touch your big bubbles), Thermal (refreshed if you hit them with the AoE heal) and Cold Dom (refreshed if you hit them with Arctic Fog) the same way to reduce clicking. But I am probably just dreaming.
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I would be more inclined to agree with this assessment if not for the existence of Fortitude, which actually does work this way.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Pure speculation on my part, but I would guess the intent behind the duration, is that it is not intended to be used as a perma buff to an entire team, rather than being used only when necessary on a limited number of team members.
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I would see no balance issue whatsoever in normalizing low-recharge ally buff durations at 4 minutes. Shorter is clearly annoying; longer and people start asking to be able to opt out, which while not entirely unreasonable is a headache I doubt the devs want to create for themselves at the moment.
Edited to add: and if the ST buffs were all made PBAoEs, I would consider it a bloody miracle. Of course, this would also mean that defenders would have to take some risks to re-buff tanks during a fight... not that I consider this a drawback, but I'm sure some would.
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Blaster: Why thank you for that taunt tanker.
Tanker: Thank you for firing Blaze.
Scrapper: May I please have SB please?
Kin Defender: Why certainly...
Scrapper: Thank you kind defender.
Kin Defender: Thank you for that Head Splitter.
Controller: Thank you for the healing aura.
Emp Defender you are most welcome.
Group: Why did we just team wipe? Could it possibly be that we stopped playing so that we could have this silly interchange of please and thank you instead of playing the game and casting our powers as we should without being asked? Nah! Couldnt be that!
Anyone who would ask me to ask and say thanks for anything (SB or anything else) is someone I'm not really interested in teaming with.
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You haven't read any of the "I hate Speed Boost" threads, or the one about why they had to re-add a prompt to Mystic Fortune buffs (currently on test), have you?|
Originally Posted by Athanatosis
Would anyone really complain if SB was exactly the same just with a much longer duration? I don't think that's the kind of "overpowered" people get jealous over.
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Yes, people would complain if it was a 20 minute duration buff that cost them absolutely nothing. No, I wouldn't be one of them.
On top of it, there is a balance consideration for the devs - recharge and endurance consumption, two things that Speed Boost helps with, are limiting factors in what a character can accomplish. Slower recharge, or having to pace your attacks to prevent bottoming out on endurance, slows you down.
Given that their entire reward structure is based on how long something takes - for the merit system explicitly, and drop rates are based on kill speed - having less downtime due to constant Speed Boost is something that (IMO) they feel should take a certain amount of attention (ie, time) to maintain.
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Hello there forums,
So lately I have been playing a Fire/Kin and teaming around. In the latest team (still in it as we speak) we sparked a mini argument about me SBing people.
My argument is that I refused to SB them unless they ask for it and say thank you afterwards. Both me and Shang stated how my using Speed Boost was a gift, not a necesity.
Their argument is that if I don't intend on using the power, why have it. Also that the stone tank (the one who was demanding the SB) would be able to play much better, as well as everyone else, because of it.
Of course I understand that Speed Boost is a big advantage for the team and stone tankers, what I don't understand is that just because it is a help hat it means manners must go out of the window. I didn't roll a /kin just to observe everyone's buffs to see when to give them one.
So what's your overall view on the matter?