Super Boost: Excuse for bad manners?

Goshnova · 06-25-2010 09:23 AM

Quote:

I don't know. The fact that they're even demanding requests for SB is, as I've said before, asinine. They took the power (no matter what AT they may be), they should and probably need to use it. (especially if you're on a TF in which most of your enemies drain End and reduce recovery, friggin Clockwork) I honestly don't know why people would even need to ask. Do these people have some sort of superiority complex or something?

Well I know for myself, I tend to just treat SB as just another buff. By that logic, I think if I have the power and don't make the effort to buff others it would be like not using shields or Fortitude or the like. The only reason I really ask is because of the runspeed thing that some people can't handle. At lower levels the +Recovery really helps a lot, but usually the actually need for it is reduced or outright eliminated at higher levels. So for me, the really important part of the buff is the +Recharge. 50% is a lot, and I know very few builds that don't benefit from the extra Recharge. I know probably some of the really high-end builds probably don't need it as much, or their powers aren't on long recharges, but I don't view those as the norm.

Nemu_ · 06-25-2010 03:53 PM

Any schmuck can farm x2/8 or what have you with a decently built kin troller.

Not everyone can do the above and keep a team buffed (within reason, you don't stop everything to buff someone on the other side of the map).

The "buff stone tank only and ignore everyone else" mentality ranks high on my noob-o-meter. If you can find time to buff the stone tank, you can find time to buff everyone else, learn to manage your time.

Kitsune Knight · 06-25-2010 04:22 PM

I was on my 50 Fire/Kin Controller the other day and decided to randomly join a PUG in PI (I believe I was the only 50 on the team, but most were around 45). There was another Fire/Kin on the team also. I kept everyone on the team Speed Boosted pretty much constantly (even when there was a multi-way split)... the other Fire/Kin, on the other hand, wouldn't give me Speed Boost... so I had to rely on transference to keep my blue bar up (it gets hard to reliably hit with transference when the enemies are dying so fast).

I've found that whenever I play my Fire/Kin, I will never, ever get SBed when there's another kin on the team, unless the other kin is (1) someone I know, (2) one of the non-lurkers in one of the main global channels on my server. IMO, most Fire/Kins make the set look like it's actually a really poor set- because they're so damn lazy with their powers (why am I the only one using Flash Fire, Cinders, Fulcrum Shift, Transference, and the AoE Immob?). I'm lucky if the other Fire/Kin just summons their imps and turns on hot feet and stays in the back.

(I'm sure there are just as many good Fire/Kins as most any other combo... it's just that the lazy bums completely drown them out)

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowNate

;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

HelinCarnate · 06-25-2010 04:39 PM

So I was on my tanker the other day and decided to not take the alpha unless someone asked me to by saying please and then said thank you after each spawn. I would still fight but I would either wait until someone asked nice or someone else ran in first. I belive that me taking the alpha is a gift and not a necessity since tanks are not "needed" on a team.

At work I will also not do my job unless my boss comes up to me and tells me to do it and then says thank you every time. For some reason I keep getting fired and having to find new jobs.

The_Ringer · 06-25-2010 05:21 PM

I have probably logged more hours on my fire/kin than many people have logged on the game in it's entirety (not bragging, this could easily be considered sad). Not farming hours mind you, I seriously can't stand that yawn-fest, I mean serious 8-person team TF sessions and whatnot. There are two things I am a little sick of hearing:

1) Fire/Kins don't buff/are stupid/are selfish. This is a silly generalization that could just as easily be applied across all ATs.

2) I can't sb b/c I want to use my other powers. Targeting assist. Seriously people it's not hard. Target Blaster, sb *plah!*, flashfire *chorm!*, target tanker, sb *plah!*, FS *chinkydink!*, Fireball *floom!*, target defender, sb *plah!*, It's an emp no target!!, target scrapper...etc

And even if this is too difficult to manage, it still can be done on the fly in between groups.

That being said, I have never, and will never criticize that lack of sb/absence of sb in the build of another kin, and I will never ask you for sb. Ignore the jerks who "need" it (i.e. ask for it if it drops even for a second/ask for it while it STILL ON THEM!), and have fun.

Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

Mr. DJ · 06-25-2010 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capa_Devans

. Sometimes I even have a hard time with AM..

I can't even fathom how AM is a problem for anyone unless they're running the motherboard gfx card on their computer...AM gives a 30% movement boost while SB gives 175% run speed increase.

Capa_Devans · 06-26-2010 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I can't even fathom how AM is a problem for anyone unless they're running the motherboard gfx card on their computer...AM gives a 30% movement boost while SB gives 175% run speed increase.

I love how people are so quick to judge without actually thinking some times.

Who said it was anything to do with my graphics card? I could be 60 with arthritis for all you know!

Council caves? Full team (and I play red a lot so MMs).

Sometimes 30% is enough to be a problem. Not often. But sometimes. So if I want to refuse it that is MY choice. Because you know; it's MY money a month.

EDIT:
You know, half the stupidity on these boards would be removed if people stopped assuming that every other player is them.

Not everyone has your interests, your age, your machine, your background etc etc. So you don't like number crunching, well I don't like marketeering and that is FINE. Because we all pay and none of us have the right to dictate that others playstyle is wrong. And it's that "you are noob and should be able to do x, y z" attitude that is so unpleasant.

Enough said. I'm going to play my non-SBing kin.

SAVE CoX info:
Titan Network efforts
Saving CoX events/FB info

Oedipus_Tex · 06-26-2010 07:42 AM

Part of the origin of this I suspect is that many Fire/Kins don't really get the transition from farm to actual mission. On a farm, the Fire/Kin can indeed solo and kill stuff fast. This leads many of them to think that they are a great damage dealer. They aren't. Fulcrum Shift is just a crazy buff. So while the Fire/Kin can in fact solo well, in a team environment those buffs are much better served placed on characters with higher base damage, and providing those characters with +Recharge to alter their attack/mezz/buff/debuff chains.

A lot of times what I see is Fire/Kins getting on teams and then running off to go solo spawns or sticking with the team and trying to act like blasters (since Fire Cages does sooo much damage, especially when other Controllers there are already setting up Containment). It's not really practical. What a lot of them don't get is that if they want to operate most efficiently they should be buffing their teammates. The damage from Hot Feet is trash compared to what most Blasters, Scrappers, Brutes could bring, and when you factor in all of the extra buffs debuffs and mezzes you're missing out on by not buffing it's just kind of embaressing.

I understand why Kins don't like taking a backseat, but in a lot of cases it is the best strategy. Plus if you're good you should be able to buff and still use most of your powers. You just have to remember that on a team you are no longer the superstar.

Of course I realize the other thing about Speed Boost is how annoying it is to have to keep clicking. Earlier in some thread (this one?) I'd suggested that Speed Boost's duration stay the same but would refresh if a teammate is hit by Transfusion cast by the same person who originally put SB on them. Force Fields would refresh if the person stepped into your Dispersion Bubble and Thermal Shields would refresh if you hit them with Warmth or Cauterize.

Red Valkyrja · 06-26-2010 12:09 PM

I was on my lowly lvl 22 Stone/Rad Controller last night and was about to ask the /Kin Controller for an SB when I check her/his Info. No SB. The I remembered that it had been the previous /Kin that had allowed me a nice recharge boost, so I'm glad I looked before I asked for and SB.

Personally, I never slot any of my Kins with +SPD in SB, I try to maximize the +EndMod.

Angel Red
"We're heroes. Fighting injustice is the thing we do." ~Rebel Scum

Wicked_Wendy · 06-26-2010 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryop

Hello there forums,
So lately I have been playing a Fire/Kin and teaming around. In the latest team (still in it as we speak) we sparked a mini argument about me SBing people.

My argument is that I refused to SB them unless they ask for it and say thank you afterwards. Both me and Shang stated how my using Speed Boost was a gift, not a necesity.

Their argument is that if I don't intend on using the power, why have it. Also that the stone tank (the one who was demanding the SB) would be able to play much better, as well as everyone else, because of it.

Of course I understand that Speed Boost is a big advantage for the team and stone tankers, what I don't understand is that just because it is a help hat it means manners must go out of the window. I didn't roll a /kin just to observe everyone's buffs to see when to give them one.

So what's your overall view on the matter?

OMG ...And you have played the game for HOW many days now?

You are on a team and SB, especially to that STONE TANK that is holding aggro and helping keep you from having mobs down your throat, is a very valuable tool. This isn't City of Tea Parties it's City of Heroes and in the middle of combat with everything from Bosses, Lieutenants, and a ton of minons you want each individual team members to ask "Please may I have a Speed Boost?" And then WHILE the Elite Boss is trying to wipe the entire team they are supposed to take time out to type "Oh thank you so much for that SB I really appreciate it."

You are on a team and everyone is supposed to pitch in with whatever powers they have at their disposal. Did you ASK politely for the TANK to aggro each mob and thank him for keeping you safe? Did you ask the Blasters and/or Scrappers to attack and destroy every minion you came across during the mission? Do your job and do it well and between fights or at the end of a mission you MAY get comments like "Nice job those buffs really helped!" Can the team survive without SB? Sure it can but I'm sorry taking an attitude that everyone should ASK you nicely to get you to use a power that helps YOU earn XP, INF, and get Salvage and Recipe drops because they team survives better and can fighter longer and harder is absurd. I've played EMPS, RADS, PLANTS, and THERMALS and never, ever, expected anyone to BEG me to heal, buff, debuff or hold. It's my job and the way I HELP the team. If you are looking for PLEASE and THANK YOUs I strongly suggest you find an on line version of "Mother may I?"

Here's a HINT for you .. SB allows every member of ANY team to fire off whatever attacks, buffs, debuffs, hold/immobs or whatever faster. They heal quicker and recover End quicker so they can battle harder and longer. You don't need to examine everyone's powersets to determine who needs it or not... It helps them all so unless a Scrapper or whatever says "No SB please" just give it to everyone. It recovers in no time and only lasts for about 2 minutes so you should be able to SB an entire 8 man team in less than 30 seconds. Your in a battle not at a garden party so forget the manners and do whatever you can to keep evertone alive and in the fight.

�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

Sprite Fire · 06-26-2010 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy

OMG ...And you have played the game for HOW many days now?

You are on a team and SB, especially to that STONE TANK that is holding aggro and helping keep you from having mobs down your throat, is a very valuable tool. This isn't City of Tea Parties it's City of Heroes and in the middle of combat with everything from Bosses, Lieutenants, and a ton of minons you want each individual team members to ask "Please may I have a Speed Boost?" And then WHILE the Elite Boss is trying to wipe the entire team they are supposed to take time out to type "Oh thank you so much for that SB I really appreciate it."

You are on a team and everyone is supposed to pitch in with whatever powers they have at their disposal. Did you ASK politely for the TANK to aggro each mob and thank him for keeping you safe? Did you ask the Blasters and/or Scrappers to attack and destroy every minion you came across during the mission? Do your job and do it well and between fights or at the end of a mission you MAY get comments like "Nice job those buffs really helped!" Can the team survive without SB? Sure it can but I'm sorry taking an attitude that everyone should ASK you nicely to get you to use a power that helps YOU earn XP, INF, and get Salvage and Recipe drops because they team survives better and can fighter longer and harder is absurd. I've played EMPS, RADS, PLANTS, and THERMALS and never, ever, expected anyone to BEG me to heal, buff, debuff or hold. It's my job and the way I HELP the team. If you are looking for PLEASE and THANK YOUs I strongly suggest you find an on line version of "Mother may I?"

Here's a HINT for you .. SB allows every member of ANY team to fire off whatever attacks, buffs, debuffs, hold/immobs or whatever faster. They heal quicker and recover End quicker so they can battle harder and longer. You don't need to examine everyone's powersets to determine who needs it or not... It helps them all so unless a Scrapper or whatever says "No SB please" just give it to everyone. It recovers in no time and only lasts for about 2 minutes so you should be able to SB an entire 8 man team in less than 30 seconds. Your in a battle not at a garden party so forget the manners and do whatever you can to keep evertone alive and in the fight.

i agree and disagree with about half of what yuo say...

YES a kin should take SB if they want to team... much like a SD should take grant cover. or an emp take... you know... single target heals... or tanks take... taunt (i HAVE seen the rare tanker able to capture and hold agro without taunt. they're rediculacely rare, 99% of the tankers without taunt simply suck at it)

note the "if they want to team". if you don't want to team don't take powers that help the team and not yourself. it's that simple.

- HOWEVER - that is no cause for rudeness, demands, and general ignorence. it's the people begging for SB WHEN THEY STILL HAVE THEIR BUFF UP that drive me insane. Its the random blaster who's end never drops bellow 90% full begging for it while i'm trying to FS so he can dish real damage that ticks me off. it's the emp defender, who neither has end issues, not even an attack chain to manage begging me for SB that drives me nuts.

it runs out really fast... it's a pain in the *** to rebuff the team, especially in the middle of a battle, and especially since FS is up ever 15-30 seconds... and when you're the ONLY actual troller on the team, trying to manage crowd control, healing, sb, fs... so on and so forth that the constant and endless nagging starts to grate on your nerves. Simply put, while i imagine a kin/ defender might be able to keep SB up on the whole party all the time and do all the other things a kin can do... the kin troller (atleast how i play one) has much more useful things she can be doing to help the team then keeping pcs who neither need SB nor will use it constantly buffed.

stone tanker - needs SB
end hogs - need SB

everyone else hardly registers on my list.

The_Overlord · 06-26-2010 08:14 PM

I can't help but imagine the whole thing could be avoided if people just said "I have SB, if you don't want it, tell me before we go into the mission and I'll not give it to you."

Oedipus_Tex · 06-26-2010 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprite Fire

the kin troller (atleast how i play one) has much more useful things she can be doing to help the team then keeping pcs who neither need SB nor will use it constantly buffed.

stone tanker - needs SB
end hogs - need SB

everyone else hardly registers on my list.

Not attacking you, but I just want to say I am not a fan of this, err, "strategy." At least if you mean singling out certain ATs as the folks who only ever receive buffs. My apologies if that's not what you mean.

Twice today while teaming with my Fire/Kin I ended up on teams with other Kins (a Kin/Pistols Defender and a Plant/Kin Controller) who apparantly felt their modest damage contribution far outweighed the benefits of Speed Boosting anyone except the Stone Tank. I do not like to brag but in this situation IMO my performance ran circles around those Kins and frankly made them look a bit foolish. I was able to keep SB up on the group 95% of the time while fighting enemies that were +5 to me and +4 to the rest of the team. After an hour on each team during which neither I nor anyone other than the Stone Tank received a boost I eventually just stopped casting it on the other Kins. That's perhaps a bit passive aggressive but IMO warranted in a situation when a teammate decides he or she is faaar too important to be bothered passing out the second strongest +Recharge buff in the game.

In essence while I don't strive to keep SB up all the time it is a very high priority. This is no different than keeping bubbles on teammates. +50% Recharge on 7 people is far, far too powerful to pass up; basically it's something you would do if you severely overvalue your personal contributions and also undervalue that of your teammates. IMO any teaming Kin that is so busy or important that Speed Boost can't be slipped in is simply not living up to the role and begging to be embaressed when someone who can manage the full weight of the set shows up.

However, I agree anyone says "sb plz" when you've been reasonable with the buffs should die in a fire. 10% downtime shouldn't be too bad. When it's the entire mission that's a bit different.

[EDIT: It actually is somewhat different from keeping shields up in that I try to have 0% downtime with shields. 10% downtime is acceptable to me when I'm playing a Kin though I try to avoid letting the power drop because it can cause annoying changes in speed for team mates.]

[EDIT2: Slight edit to content to make it more clear this isn't directed specifically at the person I'm quoting.]

Tenzhi · 06-26-2010 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capa_Devans

I love how people are so quick to judge without actually thinking some times.

Who said it was anything to do with my graphics card? I could be 60 with arthritis for all you know!

You could be paralyzed and poking the keyboard with a mouth stylus and the miniscule movement boost from AM still shouldn't present a real problem. Can you not handle the blazing speed of Sprint, either?

Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

Jeuraud · 06-26-2010 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex

In essence while I don't strive to keep SB up all the time it is a very high priority. This is no different than keeping bubbles on teammates. +50% Recharge on 7 people is far, far too powerful to pass up;

I would say that Bubbles and SB are not even close to being the same, at least not when you as a non-Defender can get SB. You are talking about the post 20 game, when everybody should have a good handle on the mechanics of the game, when they should be slotted up with at least lvl 20 IO's or better enhancements, thus already reducing their endurance usage, and recharge time fairly significantly. They also should have a endurance recharge power of some type if they have endurance problems. On the other hand a Bubbler can now issue some descent bubbles to their teammates, increasing their "real world" value.

I think the value of that around +25% "real world" recharge is way over estimated, and though I dont think the actual +50% endurance recharge is nothing to sneeze at, by the time a non-Defender can take SB your teammates should be taking care of their own endurance issues, because they can. As for the run speed buff, I hate the fricken thing no matter the level, because I cannot turn it off/on, unlike say Ninja Run.

Also for me, I dont really care about a Controllers buffs (They are gravy to me.), and even though I think with containment their damage powers do pretty descent damage, that is not what the powers, nor the Controller, are there for. I expect a Controller to be locking down the MOBs and keeping them locked down, and straight up they better have those mediocre damage powers slotted up and being used whenever available, because a Controller could be SBing me all day long, but if they are not locking down the MOBs, then as far as I care they are not doing the job I expect from them, as a Controller. I could care less if my powers are recycling 25% faster and my endurance is recycling 50% faster, if I'm am being pounded into the ground by some MOB/MOBs that could and should be locked down, and aren't.

Ohsirus · 06-26-2010 11:54 PM

My take on it is, buff unless asked not to. You get your atta boys after the mission.

ketch · 06-27-2010 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeuraud

Also for me, I don’t really care about a Controllers buffs (They are gravy to me.), and even though I think with containment their damage powers do pretty descent damage, that is not what the powers, nor the Controller, are there for. I expect a Controller to be locking down the MOBs and keeping them locked down, and straight up they better have those mediocre damage powers slotted up and being used whenever available, because a Controller could be SBing me all day long, but if they are not locking down the MOBs, then as far as I care they are not doing the job I expect from them, as a Controller. I could care less if my powers are recycling 25% faster and my endurance is recycling 50% faster, if I'm am being pounded into the ground by some MOB/MOBs that could and should be locked down, and aren't.

You have a very odd view of controllers, sir.

As a team advances toward speedier defeats, controls and the rather modest damage that controllers deal become less relevant. It's certainly nice to have mobs locked down, but if they've spent their alpha on the tank and won't be surviving the next 5 seconds then control becomes a trifling matter. Fortunately, a controller's function is not summarized by their primary alone. A controller can do a lot to help hit that point of destructive potential including SB and FS.

It's recognizing which powers will benefit the team and when to use them that makes a good controller player.

Wicked_Wendy · 06-27-2010 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprite Fire

i agree and disagree with about half of what yuo say...

YES a kin should take SB if they want to team... much like a SD should take grant cover. or an emp take... you know... single target heals... or tanks take... taunt (i HAVE seen the rare tanker able to capture and hold agro without taunt. they're rediculacely rare, 99% of the tankers without taunt simply suck at it)

note the "if they want to team". if you don't want to team don't take powers that help the team and not yourself. it's that simple.

- HOWEVER - that is no cause for rudeness, demands, and general ignorence. it's the people begging for SB WHEN THEY STILL HAVE THEIR BUFF UP that drive me insane. Its the random blaster who's end never drops bellow 90% full begging for it while i'm trying to FS so he can dish real damage that ticks me off. it's the emp defender, who neither has end issues, not even an attack chain to manage begging me for SB that drives me nuts.

it runs out really fast... it's a pain in the *** to rebuff the team, especially in the middle of a battle, and especially since FS is up ever 15-30 seconds... and when you're the ONLY actual troller on the team, trying to manage crowd control, healing, sb, fs... so on and so forth that the constant and endless nagging starts to grate on your nerves. Simply put, while i imagine a kin/ defender might be able to keep SB up on the whole party all the time and do all the other things a kin can do... the kin troller (atleast how i play one) has much more useful things she can be doing to help the team then keeping pcs who neither need SB nor will use it constantly buffed.

stone tanker - needs SB
end hogs - need SB

everyone else hardly registers on my list.

AH once again the eternal "It only matters IF they want to team" line. Not to be nasty but if you READ what the OP wrote the whole thread revolves around him, or her, wanting TEAM MATES to say Please and Thank you before offering up SB. I'd say that qualifies as YES I WANT TO TEAM with my Kin.

I am keenly aware how tough it is to constantly keep an entire team buffed with SB or anything else that wears off no matter how short or long the duration is. I never meant to imply that all a KIN should do is constantly apply dose after dose to every team member. At the same time your "everyone else hardly registers on my list" line seems a little off to me. End hog or not your telling me you''d skip Sbing a Blaster that could dramatically increase his damage output when SBed because "I don't have time I need to attack?" I know for a fact most Scrappers will tell a KIN at the door "No SB I need to be able to control my approach to a mob better so I stay in Melee range" Heck I PLAY Scrappers and I've said it.. Sadly there are BAD kins out there that let that go in on ear and out the other and just keep Sbing everything in sight. But a Blaster can stand back and at range firing over and over and over doing massive amounts of damage but if my Blaster's END bar isn't dipping you'll ignore me completely on a team?

I have a number of EMPS and have FORT slotted so it recovers in about 30 seconds. Obvioulsy I can't FORT the entire team before an attack but I start with the obvious. Tanks have more HP and Defense so the Scrappers get it first (they will be side by side with that Tank in Melee range so they will be taking more damage than support characters. Next the Tank gets it since the possibility of an EB or AV exists at any point in a mission and every little bit helps. After that I look at the team.. Blasters probably get it next since they have the least amount of defense and lower or lowest HP on any team. Then, when I can, the Trollers and Defenders get a dose if it's not time to start over on the Scrappers and Tank. It doesn't need to be constant and it certainly doesn't keep me from using other buffs and my attacks but I do the BEST I can to give it out to as many team mates as I can to increase their potential and help keep things running smoother.

Everyone is entitled to play however they chose so do whatever you like but to me a KIN that has SB and expects people to beg for it every single time with Please and Thank You isn't just hurting the team he's hurting himself. No one has time for that level of politeness during a mission we are all busy fighting bad guys and trying to stay alive. Either use the power you took and just take pride in what you did to help out or don't .. But don't expect the majority of players to polietly ask for SB while a AV is breathing down their neck because it is NOT going to happen.

�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon

Jeuraud · 06-27-2010 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketch

You have a very odd view of controllers, sir.

As a team advances toward speedier defeats, controls and the rather modest damage that controllers deal become less relevant. It's certainly nice to have mobs locked down, but if they've spent their alpha on the tank and won't be surviving the next 5 seconds then control becomes a trifling matter. Fortunately, a controller's function is not summarized by their primary alone. A controller can do a lot to help hit that point of destructive potential including SB and FS.

What I have is a altiholics view of Controllers. One where there is still challenge in the game. Where the whole primary of an AT has not been trivialized by some peoples image of the game. Where the game is not just made up of Tanks, Blasters and Buffers. If this is your game, fine, I see no challenge in it, and no real fun for myself, thus I see no purpose in playing this type of game.

Still if this is your game how does a +25% "real world" recharge reduction (We are not talking about FS here.), of an already modified recharge reduction (After all in this type of game everybody should be reduced out the wahzoo.), add to this type of game. I've done the math before, and I dont see it. So if SB is such a game altering buff that every Kin should have it and make sure that every team member is always buffed with it, then you should be able to lay out some numbers and show me what I'm missing.

Kitsune Knight · 06-27-2010 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeuraud

I would say that Bubbles and SB are not even close to being the same, at least not when you as a non-Defender can get SB. You are talking about the post 20 game, when everybody should have a good handle on the mechanics of the game, when they should be slotted up with at least lvl 20 IO's or better enhancements, thus already reducing their endurance usage, and recharge time fairly significantly. They also should have a endurance recharge power of some type if they have endurance problems. On the other hand a Bubbler can now issue some descent bubbles to their teammates, increasing their "real world" value.

Yeah, all +endurance powers and +recharge powers in the game are useless! People should already have their endurance handled and recharge max'ed! Same for +tohit or -def powers since everyone already has their accuracy max'ed! On, and +damage powers, since everyone is already high enough on their own!

Force Multiplication is TOTALLY USELESS!!!!eleven.

Or not. I know when my characters get an outside source of +endurance, I can go full out with all my powers with zero concern for endurance usage (while without I'll have to slow down to keep from eventually bottoming out). The huge +recharge (people spend a hundred million inf for 7.5 recharge!) also tights up many people's attack chains, making them able to cycle much higher damage attacks a lot faster. There's a reason that so many people try to build their characters out with +Recharge IO set bonuses: it takes most characters to another level of performance and damage output.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeuraud

+25% "real world" recharge reduction

Stop trying to fudge the numbers. It's +50% recharge reduction, and everyone here knows the formula and the degradation slope.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowNate

;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

Oedipus_Tex · 06-27-2010 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeuraud

... a Controller could be SBing me all day long, but if they are not locking down the MOBs, then as far as I care they are not doing the job I expect from them, as a Controller. I could care less if my powers are recycling 25% faster and my endurance is recycling 50% faster, if I'm am being pounded into the ground by some MOB/MOBs that could and should be locked down, and aren't.

I don't think anyone is saying Controllers shouldn't use their lockdown powers. We're saying lockdown the enemies and keep the team reasonably buffed. Failing to do one or the other is just... well it's fail. :P

ketch · 06-27-2010 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeuraud

What I have is a altiholics view of Controllers. One where there is still challenge in the game. Where the whole primary of an AT has not been trivialized by some peoples image of the game. Where the game is not just made up of Tanks, Blasters and Buffers. If this is your game, fine, I see no challenge in it, and no real fun for myself, thus I see no purpose in playing this type of game.

Still if this is your game how does a +25% "real world" recharge reduction (We are not talking about FS here.), of an already modified recharge reduction (After all in this type of game everybody should be reduced out the wahzoo.), add to this type of game. I've done the math before, and I don’t see it. So if SB is such a game altering buff that every Kin should have it and make sure that every team member is always buffed with it, then you should be able to lay out some numbers and show me what I'm missing.

Let's skip straight to maths, shall we?

Let's look at Total Domination. It has a base recharge of 240 seconds; a reasonably generous enhancement with two generic lvl 50 IO's reduces that 131 seconds; adding 70% recharge from Hasten further reduces that to 95 seconds. Adding another 50% recharge, the actual "real world" value of Speedboost, reduces that recharge to 79 seconds. Since you've already stated that you'd like controllers to control, wouldn't it be quite helpful for them to have their AoE hold up 15 seconds faster?

That doesn't even touch the value of +recovery in SB (twice that of Stamina by the way).

Now, as for your view on alt'ing and difficulty... Being unable or unwilling to dedicate the time to building a character with ridiculous recharge, one would think you would appreciate receiving it from external sources a bit more or would be empathetic to people in a similar situation. For the guy sitting on 102% global recharge (or out the wahzoo, as you say) Speedboost, while still worthwhile for its +recovery, has a smaller impact than for the more casual fellow that's running on Hasten and SO's. I assume there are more of the latter than the former so I SB generously.

Oedipus_Tex · 06-27-2010 10:59 AM

Even on my Mind/Cold Controller with +195% Recharge from bonuses and Hasten Speed Boost has a huge effect. The math is a little fuzzy but to estimate, Mass Confusion drops from 65 to 60 seconds, Heat Loss drops from 97.6 to 92 seconds, Total Domination drops from 62.5 to 60 seconds, and Benumb drops from 31.7 to 30 seconds (becomes perma). Now multiply that effect by 7 characters and consider that many of them are not built for Recharge in this way.

+50% Recharge is basically like getting 1 and 1/4th slots filled with a level 50 Recharge IO for free in every single power. The current market cost to achieve this via set bonuses hovers at around 500 million - 1 billion depending on the build. Multiply THAT by 7 characters and you'll see why people value Kins who work to keep the buff active.

Mr. DJ · 06-27-2010 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capa_Devans

block of crying text

Since it's more than obvious, you know why I said I have a hard time believing people have movement trouble with AM? Because that's like saying you have movement problems with Swift or turning on Sprint...

I would like for you to point out exactly where I "judged" you.

You want to call someone ignorant, you better look in the mirror and think about what you say before you decide to jump down someone's throat. My machine is hardly fabulous, it's 3 years old, store bought and the only thing upgraded is the case. I'm not the most tech savvy person around here, I tend to ask questions when I need them.

Since you want to get childish for no good reason, I'll just tack this on:

Enyalios · 06-27-2010 05:07 PM

Wow 9 pages on sb manners. I'm glad most of the discussion seems to be focused on controllers and defenders cause I mostly play redside.

Here's the truth on sb:

1) it makes the team more powerful (excepting computer issues of the players not the toons).

2) its not the only thing kins can do nor even the single best (fulcrum shift well applied has more affect on team success than speed boost).

3) the easiest way to apply speed boost is to toggle down the team menu and sp each person in turn. Sometimes people arent in range when you do this and miss speed boost.

4) sometimes people are jerks when they don't get speed boost, even if it lapses for less than 5 seconds or I'm dead because they didn't taunt or something.

I know all of this in advance before I log into my kin and if i choose to log her I accept the consequences....that said I'd prefer if #4 was rare and it often makes me leave and take my fs'ing sb'ing self somewhere else.

FF, sonic, thermal, and cold dom buffs are similar but people just aren't as rabid about them for whatever reason even though the defense buffs usually are as or more important because everyone can cut loose and not worry on aggro which increases damage as much as a fs does.