All Things Art: Building Edition

What's up, everybody? In this offshoot of the All Things Art thread, I wanted to talk specifically about the buildings in City of Heroes. So lay it on me: likes and dislikes, signature and basic.

Quick refresher on the ground rules, and then we'll get started.

This is a direct line of communication between you and the COH Art Team. I want to hear directly from the players what they think about the art in our game, but to keep things running smoothly, please observe the following:

1. Gotta keep it real: Ongoing development is of course my top priority, so my ability to respond to posts and PMs will be limited. If you don't get a direct reply, don't worry--rest assured that I'm reading everything that appears on this thread.

2. Patience, young Jedi: Posting on this thread won't necessarily expedite that special request you've wanted forever, but it'll at least keep it on the radar. We're always striving to give you guys what you want, but that comes in two flavors: variations on existing stuff, and brand-new stuff that expands the game into exciting new territory. Though we try to honor older requests (see: animated tails), it has to happen as a part of overall, ongoing development.

3. This is why we can't have nice things: If something's logistically prohibitive, technically unfeasible, or aesthetically miss-matched with the game, I'll always try to level with you. Certain things just aren't on the agenda, and why dwell on those when we could be talking about all the awesome stuff that you get instead?!

4. Rein it in there, cowboy: Let's try to keep the dialogue succinct, measured and constructive. It's helpful to know what you like and don't like, but play it cool, y'know?


So yeah, what's on your mind?

I would love to see the war walls fall and all that area between the zones on the map get built up...

Basically what i mean is i would love to see the city physically grow by tearing down the walls slowly over time...

Also as i mentioned in the other thread can we get some roof hopping areas that can extrend from one side to the others... there are like none hero side and it is integral to my favorite type of hero.

Along with that I would love to see more iconic places for me to go look at or hang out at. Nooks and hidden passages leading to conference rooms for various hero groups.

Oh yeah... Send me to other planets too!!!!

Make the old buildings as pretty as the newer buildings. Anything created after, say, the Faultline revamp looks distinctly better than the old building textures. The textures are clearer, they're not so samey-samey, and there are differences between the buildings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Building-wise, I think the one thing I'd really like to see is more unique structures.

Sure there's a badge marking where the Paragon Times used to be published in Faultline (maybe still is, haven't checked in a long time), but the building itself looks identical to every other one of that type. No signage, no satellite dishes that one would expect on a news media HQ, nothing to distinguish it from all the other buildings.

Just give us a couple more buildings into the zone mix to break up the monotony.

Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

Ok, I can come up with a lot of "wants" in this area, but can we please, please, please have some continuity updates?

Here's an example of what I mean:

Recluse's Victory/all Atlas Mission Maps vs. updated Atlas Park - Continuity is really big for me in CoH. So, it saddens me when I'm in Recluse's Victory and there is no destroyed Wentworth's building. Same with all new mission maps of Atlas (except for the Twilight's Son Ouroboros Arc; that one has Wentworths on a map with the meteor). But there is no Mission Architect building in RV (closed down/destroyed of course) there is no updated Vanguard base, etc.

I do appreciate the time and effort that goes into each update, but, storywise, the lack of constant updated continuity kind of ruins it for me.

Also, there are some mission maps that are updated while the actual zone isn't. An example of this is the S.E.R.A.P.H. Steel Canyon building from the villainside storyarc. In the villain arc, there is a sign for the SERAPH building and a door that you can enter. However in Steel Canyon, neither exist.

Like I said, it's the little things that make this game stand out for me.

Ok, here is a "want:"

Can we please get more buildings to enter? Even if they don't have anything special inside, I'd love to be able to walk up to any door, open it, go into a lobby and just have a place to hang out. :P

This goes a little beyond buildings, but I've noticed that many of the hero zones have a very austere, planned feel to them: grid road layout, regularly shaped buildings, and so on. It reminds me of the years I spent in Salt Lake City, a city drawn out in a grid on an empty patch of land, a "model city" that was made, not born. Given that much of Paragon was razed to the ground and rebuilt on the ashes, this is more or less appropriate - but it feels distinctly cold to me. I'd love to see some buildings, neighborhoods, even districts that are holdovers from Paragon City's last incarnation, with a more unplanned look to them. A Chinatown would be great, or an old downtown, or a cathedral, or heck, just two streets that don't meet at a right angle.

Edited to add: I mean, you don't want good old Paragon, home of freedom and democracy, to seem less humane than Praetoria.

I'd love it if you could give each zone a unique architectural flavor. For example, Steel Canyon could have more of an Art Deco look, evocative of the Empire State Building, Chrysler Building, and the like. Founders Falls could (and really should) have more of a colonial look, since it's the oldest part of Paragon (and I'd love to see the Founders tram station redesigned to fit in with the area better). A Boomtown revamp could use more modern glass skyscrapers as the area is rebuilt.

Get rid of, or make more subtle the very bad use of depth as texturing on freakin' huge walls. Use geometry to push detail in or outward, use normal maps, use more subtle detailing on the texture itself, or anything you can think up of. Here are some examples:

Screenshot 1

Screenshot 2

Screenshot 3

I would like to see the AE building only in a couple zones per side.

This may seem like an oddly-specific request, but I would love to see the texture of Atlas' globe updated... the extreme seams at the top of the globe have ALWAYS bothered me.

I want destruction. If all of us super powered people are running around I expect there to be some damage or at the very least some reconstruction of the damage. Yeah we have zones that are destroyed all over the place but. If this were really a city full of super powers shouldn't their be some damage to buildings? Like a blaster shot that missed the target and made a hole in the wall? Only thing I'd really like to see other wise most stuff has been mentioned all ready.

I want more ledges and other projections on the sides of buildings. Right now, if you're superjumping across a zone, you've got two options: go roof-to-roof, or bounce off window ledges, which just doesn't feel right.

When Faultline was revamped, that was just marvelous. Suddenly you had a very tiny area that was designed like a real city. You had a little market area. You had apartments with swimming pools and hot tubs and chairs. It felt lovely, like an area of town my characters can actually want to move to, even if you do have to chase off the Lost to enjoy a dip in the pool.

I also love the gothic feel of Mercy. All the balconies and ledges and sloped rooftops. Lovely. And the rooftop garden in Port Oakes. Makes me smile. Even the buildings that have holes in the roof and you can jump down into the burned out shells.

Details like that are really enjoyable and give texture to the city.

More please!

And thank you for asking!

I like the buildings in Paragon City. I like the style, and I like the function. By function I mean that all (almost) buildings in Paragon City have tiny ledges on their walls, usually corresponding with window ledges, which can be used to "climb" a building or superjump from. This function is often not present on newer buildings, which is very annoying.

I like the cluttered shanty towns found here and there in the Rogue Isles. I love the huge "older" skyscrapers found in Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable. I dislike all things Arachnos. Their buildings look completely fake. Arachnos "bases" look like Lego models in their architecture. They are the outdoors equivalent of the Office map layouts. Ramps, ramparts, catwalks, bulwarks, walls, towers, spikes - all of it jumbled together without making much logical sense.

One of the best or worst examples is the structure where the Arbiter hangs out in Sharkhead. It's like someone decided that the Arbiter needed shelter from the weather so they put up walls on three sides. The building seems too small to fill any other purpose. The larger Arachnos bases look a little better because they seem large enough to actually have an interior, but they are still a jumbled mess.

And Grandville is of course one of the worst cases. The buildings in the Gutter are really pretty and the Gutter itself looks great. Spider city on the other hand looks like a small Arachnos base blown up out of proportion.

Recluse's tower isn't so bad but why is it surrounded by buildings which don't look like buildings but rather like giant copper tanks, pipes and tubes? It's like Lord Recluse decided to build a huge and very impressive palace for himself, but he put it in an industrial zone and it ended up hidden behind enormous factories belching out smoke.

It's extra jarring considering that just a bit north of Grandville is The Fab, an entire island dedicated to industry. You'd think Recluse could find it within his power to move the factories to that area where they wouldn't block the view from his palace. If the "factories" in Grandville could be replaced with more normal-looking skyscrapers in a similar style to those found in Aeon City or Port Oakes I think Grandville would look a whole lot better.

That the entire city is hidden under an ugly and cluttered web is bad enough, or perhaps a blessing, but I don't think there's much that can be done about that. The Web should have been kept in the Fab too, in my opinion, but it wouldn't make for a good end fight in the Statesman TF.

An idea for some flavor; put up on buildings, or perhaps arches over roads some digital alert signs. The kinds used to warn of emergencies and such, except these would put out alerts for in game events. Like the Events channel, but in-game and with perhaps more detail, like "ALERT: VANGUARD REPORTS INCOMING RIKTI INVASION TO THIS CITY ZONE. ALL BASELINE CITIZENS SEEK IMMEDIATE SHELTER. ALL SUPRANORMAL CITIZENS PREPARE FOR ASSAULT." In between events they could show more normal messages, which messages would depend on location.

A lot of the old building, especially sky scrapers, look rather generic with a lot of obvious copy/pasting. It'd be nice to see some of the older buildings get redone.

Additionally, although probably not your department, the "ceiling" of zones really should be above said sky scrapers, nothing take you out of the awesomeness of flying like trying to go to the tallest building in a zone for an invisible barrier to block the way.

This might be your department, there's an area on Cap Au Diable, I believe called Haven. It's a slum, unfortunately it causes HUGE graphics lag when looking at it. Would be nice if you could do something about that

This is more War Witch's thing, but I love the details.

I'm talking things like the Tiki Bar in St. Martial. The Crypt in Astoria. The docks in Perez Park. The Monkey Bar in Sharkhead. The Council Base in the RWZ. The Giza in general.

As a Virtueite, I find myself frequenting certain places. Like our base. Or the D.

I'd love to see more detail in the world that's just there for flavor. RP Spots, if you will. The Pool in Faultline is a good one. The Shops work well too.

How about coffee shops and bars that cell inspirations? Some Blueside Abandoned Labs? A Movie Theater that is also a Television style contact?

Buildings that you can go into.

I'm hoping Praetoria has some places like that, assuming my existing toons can access it.

A few thoughts that hit me:

Not exactly buildings, but since they are vital to the city.
I'm talking about the superclass of NPC's that have the ability to push any superpowered being, no matter even if they are all stone aside.
Could they if walking towards me, move to the side, not pushing me away?

Right.
Buildings.
One word has been mentioned already "continuity" with Recluses victory as an example. Please update the zone maps which have been added new buildings... like the AE building.

Another idea:
How about a new zone when players first come (they could unlock the zone or something) it is maybe a barren world (or any kind you decide), but the heroes have a reason to stay there. They need a base of operations so they work together to assemble resourcers, help longbow or any other group with missions etc.
Depending upon the missions they do or resources they let be allocated to, the needed buildings take shape.
What I basically say, can we get a zone where we feel we are bringing Paragon City (Earth) to. While feeling like the explorers that made the bases in the Shadow Shard?

Zone events:
Though Rikti or Zombies attack en-mass the city will stay unchanged and undamaged after each attack. The Rikti are dropping bombs that go off and nothing is damaged...?
How about a little zone damage, but with around 5 min or an ingame day period the damage to structures, cars etc gets cleaned up.
To make such a thing a little important, how about (ok might be screams now) if a zone is hit with enough damage the players must chip in and do fixing of the city. Lifting stones, saving citizens, mending buildings etc, since maybe important structures like Trains, UNI, Market (sigh..) AE could be shut down during this. Thus heroes... fix it.
We could even get badges for this.

Not sure how that would apply for villains though, but even villains would need to rebuild stuff, attack rival villains, accidently freeing civilians when they search for loot, getting paid by various individuals to help fix the zone.
Sort of a long time zone Reversal? That way we could see bombs do damage to the sorroundings and well the city would be fixed again shortly after?

Also I do hope we get a reskin of various building models to that of GR

Since this is about ART and not gameplay issues...

Clean up the Isles a little more. Make it a touch less grimy and dingy. Make the skies brighter.

I like the fact that the Isles have distinct neighborhoods with different qualities. I'd like more of that. Local markets and stores on the ground level, with apartments above. This is a common feature of architecture in areas with limited space; see Cairo, Egypt and its surrounding areas.

More buildings to go *into* would be nice, too. Doesn't have to be many, doesn't even have to have a story connected to it, but it would be nice to have a smaller casino, or a lounge, or a diner / restaurant / Super Mexicano that we can actually *go into* and *sit down at the booths*.

I like the buildings in Kings Row, Founders Falls; I think Faultline - as others have mentioned - looks great as do most of the buildings in the Rogue Isles; the AE building always pulls me up - it looks amazing - it looks like a real building using real architecture, but then I see the skyscrapers in Steel Canyon and suddenly I'm back in a computer game showing its age.

They look terribly generic, and not really enough like real buildings: the shapes are too simple, the textures too repetitive, too chunky, too...grey. Steel Canyon just doesn't look like the busy commercial district of a modern city, there should be more glass, more modern buildings, more signage - where's Paragon's Times Square or Piccadilly Circus?


Also I realise we're stuck with the Warwalls, but why are they so bare? It's like we're supposed to try and ignore them and pretend they don't exist because they are there purely there for game mechanics reasons.

If I was mayor of Paragon, every inch of that wall that I could sell would be given over to advertising hoardings, or perhaps public murals or mosaics in the more upper-class areas; the wall outside Bomtown would probably be turned over to some kind of wall of remembrance (with occasional NPCs laying flowers and crying); walls in hazard zones painted with huge warning signs: biohazard/radiation/skulls, black/yellow stripes, curfew messages, or covered in graffiti from the local gangs or the local artists.

Steel Canyon:

Turn Blyde Square into the Picadilly Circus/Times Square of Paragon City. Big billboards on the buildings around it, big tower blocks becoming department/office/media centres. Maybe a strip of road with theatres, the Broadway/West End of Paragon City. Chuck the lakes/parks some vendor carts. Maybe people relaxing there during the day.

Galaxy City: Give some of the warehouse premesis in Nebula District names, so instead of it being acres of generic warehouse, there's some company presence. Maybe a Crey Warehouse with guards patrolling, taking care of threats and not heroes. (Seriously, Crey just come out of nowhere and start wailing on you for no good reason.) You could chuck this into the Argosy Industrial Park in Atlas Park too. Orion's Belt could get some more unique shops, and Equinox could be apartment's for the future of Paragon City. Expand Freedom Court for a bit, make it more... Freedom-y. See some NPC heroes in there, interesting background chatter. Give Gemini Park some of the above mentioned things regarding lakes/parks.

Talos Island: Give it an Asian district. The Hmong Tsoo presence is noticable, so why not have a vibrant street market? Maybe have a Little Italy too, or save it for IP where the Family like to play.

Those sorts of ideas basically. I've talked about them before in more detail in the suggestion's forum a while ago:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=183268

Basically, make Paragon City look like the City of Tomorrow, with the charm and quaintness and tourist spots of an old city, and the high tech fandangle of a new city, and give us some more places to loiter.

1.

Please, please, could you try to improve the game's foliage?

What I'm talking about is how 90% of non-pine trees appear dead. If you enter nearly any zone you will find almost every tree is brown, other than pines.

This is actually the #1 thing that would improve the game graphically. Go to someplace where this isn't the case, like Indigo's place in FF, and it's dramatically better.

In general, it's best if the majority of trees are green, with some bright reds or other attractive ones occasionally. The brown brigade should be relegated to places where it's necessary to the setting.

2.

Urban renewal in the Rogue Isles, and more variety.

Some places that should look much better than they do:

Aeon City & Haven: If this is supposed to suggest a wrong side of the tracks, it doesn't, because everything still looks ugly. Why not make Haven a sci-fi tech city rather than a collection of generic buildings? If that's too much, at least add some buildings that look as good as Paragon's. Make the foliage suitable for a place that is supposed to be a propaganda showcase, etc. Beautify the area of the university & BM especially. This is supposed to be one of the ritzier of places and is a player hangout.

Nerva: Longbow's area looks just like the isles, but with statues. Hold that thought. It is kind of hilarious as insight into their priorities (propaganda) for the crowd that says Longbow is evil, so never mind. But Crey's neighborhood could be more of a showcase, since the NPCs are doing heavy PR there. Both theirs and the neighborhood buildings.

St. Martial: As a higher level area, and supposedly a tourist destination, this is another that would be a high priority, along with Aeon City. Foliage would do the most, but another improvement might be better buildings. The Giza's surrounding fountains, and the place with the AE which is the neighborhood in front of it, should be especially attractive. If I may suggest more than just art, try taking the far too common Arachnos and their fort out of the zone.

In those places that stay black, try to add more contrast to the Rogue Isles textures so they don't look so black. It can be hard to even see where you're going at night.

It would be nice to see some new "modern" style architecture. With the beauty of the glass reflections it would be nice to see some entirely glass structures in some new/unusual shapes. What is that Egg shaped one in London?

Quoting from my comment in the other thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodoan would like to see some more street level store signs at the skyscraper bases, and other visual touches to break up more of the homogenous feel of areas like Steel Canyon and Skyway. There are some already, like the umpteen Dirty Duck taverns, but where are the pharmacies, insurance companies, public libraries branches, etc.? In that regard, would like to see some ethnic sections of the city. A Asian district, like a Chinatown with strung paper lanterns, banners, and cheap plastic toys in all the windows. Possibly close to a major concentrantion of Tsoo. (Yes, I'm aware they are Hmong and not Chinese, hence the "Asian" comment). Maybe even an homage to the Blade Runner movie's downtown look. or a Little Italy, say in Independence Point near the Family. With cart vendors and Italian restaurants all over. Would like to see some new posters and movie titles in the theaters. Bring back the contest to create the best movie title! Lastly, would like to see gas stations. Where are all those cars fueling up? Thanks for taking the time to work with us, David!

In addition, it would be nice to have some occasional points of visual interest on skyscraper roofs and ledges. The surprise garden, luxury pool, that sort of thing. I'd love to have my scrapper use the crouching emote to scan the city from the back of a Chrysler Building gargoyle!