All Things Art: Building Edition
By
Agent_117,
Posted on: 2010-05-20 22:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yeah, I'm sorry but those buildings still look too much alike to me. Not just the glass towers. All of them. From that distance, they're just boxes of different shapes. You'll note that current Paragon City architecture has a lot more useless detail to it that at least looks interesting from a distance, like a building with an entire metal floor right above the entrance, or a building with three huge A-frames apparently supporting it, or the building with that huge round sculpture on one side, or the one that has sort of a domed roof... There are many variants, and all of them look unique (well, reused, but still unique in and of themselves). Paragon City has more the look of Gotham City than that of New York, with its needlessly ornate architecture replete with eagle heads and gargoyles.|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Also, not all glass towers look alike. There are at least 5 in this picture. None of them look alike.
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If anything, the Architect building is the epitome of everything I hate about building design. It's a square glass box. That's ALL it is. Yes, it has one terrace, but even its solitary decorative element doesn't help detract from the fact that it's BORING. Yay! A huge wall of glass! We haven't had that before, so it certainly has its place, but more of that? Nah. I can envision a FEW glass towers here and there, but they're easily my LEAST favourite type of building.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'd love for buildings to be a lot more massive in general. Real buildings are huge. Our buildings are vastly scaled-down, as if built for three-foot midgets to work in. The game in general can use more "big things."|
Originally Posted by NightErrant
I'd love MASSIVE buildings for major, plot important places.
Things that you just go up to and say "Whoa..." Like the tower in Nova Praetoria. |
The dam wall in Faultline used to be big and impressive, a sheer drop of HALF A MILE STRAIGHT DOWN, but then they flooded it and it has been boring sice. The Rikti Saucer is huge, granted, but the area around it is so dangerous that I've never really been able to appreciate its size. The Terra Volta reactor is BREATH-TAKING, but again - who goes there, and why would I want to?
I don't know what to say. The roads in Paragon City are far too huge for the cars that drive around, taking up so much land area there's very little left for the actual buildings. And the buildings themslves are always all alone, looking more like a forest than... Well, a "Steel Canyon." I'd have much preferred to see them jammed closer together, made bigger and generally feel like a cityscape, rather than the base of a Command and Conquer general. There's nothing that can be done to change it at this point, but I'd hope and pray that at least in Praetoria, buildings will be more to-scale.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Another building-related thing - now that there's no longer a 35+ restriction on co-op content, please move the AE building in the RWZ to Pocket D instead - it's way better suited to an entertainment zone than a war zone
 Stick it on a floating rock island on the opposite side of the club from the ski slope, and either make a portal leading to it, or a covered bridge. |
I heartily agree with this!
Thelonious Monk
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I do agree with this, but-|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
P.S. The Architect building in the War Zone: Move it into the Vanguard Compound to be accessed off a side door and leave the current Architect building shot up, windows broken, equipment defunct and abandoned. That's what happens when you build a fancy internet cafe IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR ZONE!
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At leas it DOES have a tonne load of HVAS and turrets guarding it
Anything nearby tends to get exlpoded fairly fast.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Sort the Roads out
Some road planning looks like it was done like an acid junkie. Roads that go nowhere and around and around for no reason - we also need GAS STATIONS for cars to fill up in. (There's some excellent arcs could come from that too, from a very simple "Hellions robbing the gas station" to "Council trying to cut off Paragon's fuel supply")
Thelonious Monk
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Always wondered about that... is Vanguard getting a kickback from Aeon to guard the building?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I do agree with this, but-
At leas it DOES have a tonne load of HVAS and turrets guarding it Anything nearby tends to get exlpoded fairly fast. |
Back OT: Spanky's Boardwalk could really use a refreshing. Have the buildings also *do* something, and it could actually be kind of a hang-out place.
Global name: @k26dp
Our tall buildings:
I wonder where the loading dock is, and if there's enough doors for people to go to work through.
I, uh, heard somewhere that level designers have to try quite hard to make players look up.
Looking up is expensive. You have to hold a mouse button or take your hand off the mouse button and put it on Page Up. Then you have to reset it to do any travelling or fighting. Having the camera looking down is useful in combat; you can see more of what's behind you and around you. Exactly the opposite perspective for enjoying architecture.
The only building I really remember looking at the top of from ground level is the PCPD HQ. That's got accent lights, the King's Row SG portal, a ramp in front of it, and a terrace that'll show up on screen while looking forward, telling the player that there's something worth seeing by looking up, or at least that's it's not another ten floors of the same windows.
Oh, and the Golden Giza. ... Actually, Jackpot also offers enough eye candy for taking time out of combat and stuff.
Come to think of it, the ramps leading up to Aeon City help the player notice that there's some tall buildings around there, but after looking up there's nothing to keep the eye's interest. (Actually, there's this one red and black bit near some flags somewhere.) Also, the street spawns mean that lowbie characters'll jetpack to the Arbiter, skipping the ramps entirely.
Tall buildings are kinda cool, but I figure here you need something to draw the eye up, and something to keep it there. (It needs to be more than in an FPS since it's less work to look up with those controls.)
Ninja Run is the right size for rooftop-hopping; build terraced buildings with it in mind.
Building greebles!
- Those white boxes with a blue light on them.
- Fluorescent strip lights.
- Doors painted "NO PARKING".
- Plumbing: which side of the warehouse has the toilets? The one with the row of right elbows with access covers.
- An earth spike.
- Weeds growing next to the fences and the buildings, where 'next to' means 'can be whiteboxed by putting a tiny bush halfway through the fence'.
- A pickup truck in the parking lot. <.<
- Torn bill posters.
- Corrugated iron lying around. Oh, and racks of pipe.
- Conversely, cleaner areas ... we can't do signs (or the lump of concrete with the company logo on it) outside of Nova Praetoria, but how about the rack of mailboxes?
(Do we already have a trailer for motorboats?)
A mall interior with an atrium would look cool, but be bad for team cohesion. (Even two overlapping floors is bad. :S )
Meben, 38 Kat/SR NPK Stalker (Defiant)
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Yeah, but it's a large plate glass tower block in an apartment building, and it's never taken a shot to the windows? I know Rikti Plasma Rifles have a range of, like, five feet, but you gotta' figure that if Vanguard are using bunkers and those still get shot up, the glass tower ought to get a shattered window an hour.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I do agree with this, but-
At leas it DOES have a tonne load of HVAS and turrets guarding it Anything nearby tends to get exlpoded fairly fast. |
Seriously, in a real war zone, that place would be windowless in, like, a day. And you know what? That's fine. I don't want a ret-con. Sure, someone had the bright idea of putting up a luxury tower block in the middle of a war zone. It's stupid, but I can roll with it. So let us see the consequences. Say it's too expensive to maintain the building, pull the big Matrix generator and let it become a tilting ruin just like the rest of the zone. That would actually be cooler than if the building never existed
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Running around last night...
Try to match the window interiors with the buildings. At least kind of. In Skyway, I looked at a block of buildings were the music store had a "Take Out" sign hanging in its window, the barber shop was filled with racks of books and the book store next door had what looked like frozen food racks filling it. And there was another music store a block away with yet another "Take Out" sign in the window. I wouldn't have guesses saxophone rental/chow mein businesses were so lucrative.
And why are the lights on in zones such as the Hollows? If the idea of a hazard zone is that the authorities have been forced to give over the area to the criminal element and just try to keep them contained, why do all the lights come on at night and why are there lit neon signs in the windows. If anything, it should look all boarded up like some of the RWZ buildings.
I'm guessing this is a reasonable fit for the building edition:
Statues. Paragon City is legendary for statues to heroes. Unfortunately, we have the same models duplicated over and over in the city. Probably needed in order to get the game going back in 2004, but can you...
- retcon at least many of the duplicates with new designs?
- throw in some statues to famous, never seen denizens of the city.
- add descriptive plates to ones we have, like the M-1 statue in Steel Canyon.
- add a few statues to "normals" as well. I'm surprised I've not see a statue of Spanky Rabinowitz anywhere. Considering the man's ego and how many ways he touched the city, it would seem a given he'd have found a way to get a statue put up.
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Samuel, did you see this earlier post by Newty, especially the last pic?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, I'm sorry but those buildings still look too much alike to me. Not just the glass towers. All of them. From that distance, they're just boxes of different shapes. ... I can envision a FEW glass towers here and there, but they're easily my LEAST favourite type of building.
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Originally Posted by Newty
I'd like you guys to use and abuse reflections. Huge skyscrapers with full-reflected glass on the front. At the sides external-elevators. Basically I don't want more City of Cubes. Bring in shapes, skyscrapers that go further then the current heightmap.    http://www.trendir.com/ultra-modern/56-leonard-street-3.jpg |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
A few things I want to say:
Secondly, scale. Just about every building in the city is BADLY out of scale, When you climb a building's windowsills, you will quickly notice that each floor is around 6 feet tall, and most skyscrapers' foundations are smaller than most standing houses. It's not so evident in City of Heroes as there are just a lot of buildings, but in City of Villains, it's REALLY apparent. When Aion "City" is comprised of, like four buildings, each with a footprint smaller than my house (and I'm a poor sod, too), something is wrong. |
I don't know Sam, the scale in some places seems ok to me.
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2-16-14-42.jpg
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
Sadly, I think the building footprints is just something I have to handwave to game limitations. I can't imagine the size of the zones, or conversely the small amount of buildings, with realistic footprints.
Dec out.
Unusual Architecture (where applicable):
Mineral-based (Mineral glass, volcanic, obsidian structures)
Plant-based (Tree houses, villages, travel systems, zones)
Organic-based (living; breathing flesh)
Fishing villages, floating markets
Open (soft-door) cave systems (that are arted like creatures actually lives in its crack, crevices and cubbies)
Hovering architecture (even if its only a few feet off the ground)
Advanced tech design (think Jestons... or even Minority Report)
Huts buried within existing forested areas (mud, grass, clay, brick)
Phantom buildings (semi-transparent)
Large amusement parks (especially in 'Carnie-ville')
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Let me reinerate a suggestion I made earlier. Have poeple in the skyscrappers occationally look out the windows and wave at passing heroes.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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In general, whatever changes are made... please have the non-combat NPCs interact with the specific locales (instead of just (and only) wandering aimlessly out in the open)
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Let me reinerate a suggestion I made earlier. Have poeple in the skyscrappers occationally look out the windows and wave at passing heroes.
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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Those aren't exactly "glass towers," though, they're buildings which incorporate glass façade elements along with other architectural features, like how the buildings we have now implement windows with stone or concrete details. I'm not opposed to the notion of large plate glass façades here and there, but I DO NOT LIKE buildings like the Architect Entertainment ones. They're just boring to look at. And the Architect doesn't reflect right, to boot.|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
Samuel, did you see this earlier post by Newty, especially the last pic?
*post* Glass can be a very flexible building material. See all the concept pics at this site or just google image "Dubai building" and scan through several pages. |
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I don't know Sam, the scale in some places seems ok to me.
http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2-16-14-42.jpg |
*edit*
Huh... I guess I was wrong. I'm playing a relatively small-ish girl right now, but still, each floor looks like it's well tall enough. I'll have to revise that last statement before I insist on it. I still have to complain about building footprints, though. Looking at the footprints of most of those buildings, I have to wonder how they have room for so much as a lobby.
And then there's the building in Atlas Park near the station that is built ON TOP OF A TUNNEL! Apparently, buildings in Paragon City have no foundations, they're just plopped onto the ground, and no-one worries about putting a 50-storey monsters entirely over a tunnel. Mind you, that that building's actual footprint is narrower than the four-lane tunnel beneath it...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't know how doable that is, but I like that idea, Anti_Proton. |
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Let me reinerate a suggestion I made earlier. Have poeple in the skyscrappers occationally look out the windows and wave at passing heroes.
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Forums were originally designed for quite lengthy posts. |
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Just a reminder guys, try and keep your posts to a paragraph in length. :P
I know we're all excited and all want to contribute, but some of these posts...geesh. |
And well.. it makes a change to see lengthy posts from the normal one-sentence replys. And also, it gives something for not only us to read, but the team also! aha.
Also going back to Rodoan, I agree. Since Abu Dhabi, glass structures have skyrocketed really. Glass is no longer a panel!
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Makes sense.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And then there's the building in Atlas Park near the station that is built ON TOP OF A TUNNEL! Apparently, buildings in Paragon City have no foundations, they're just plopped onto the ground, and no-one worries about putting a 50-storey monsters entirely over a tunnel. Mind you, that that building's actual footprint is narrower than the four-lane tunnel beneath it...
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Remember, everything in Paragon is also built on top of ginormous sewer tunnels which are on top of ANOTHER set of ginormous sewers which are on top of a sunken city.
Not to mention all the caves.
Really, that anything over 2 floors is standing in Paragon is a monument to her civil engineers. Either that or they all hired Bloody Stupid Johnson.*
* - Which would not surprise me.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
I don't know if this would look out of place in an American city, but I have always loved the Neo-Gothic (Gothic Revival, Victorian Gothic) style of architecture. It's my second favourite style after Art Deco. This style is often used for government buildings in the UK and Canada.
Some notable Neo-Gothic buildings include: The Palace of Westminster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ter_palace.jpg
Parliament Hill: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Parlement.jpg (I especially like the Library of Parliament: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Parliament.jpg )
Boston College: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on_skyline.jpg
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There's actually sort of an in-world explanation for this. A Wizard did it! Actually, a lot of wizards.|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Makes sense.
Remember, everything in Paragon is also built on top of ginormous sewer tunnels which are on top of ANOTHER set of ginormous sewers which are on top of a sunken city. Not to mention all the caves. Really, that anything over 2 floors is standing in Paragon is a monument to her civil engineers. Either that or they all hired Bloody Stupid Johnson.* * - Which would not surprise me. |
"The High Mages of Force deal with the primal forces that move the universe. In their sunken city they are responsible for preventing cave ins by siphoning off the Earth´s seismic energy into useful pursuits. In battle, they can sap the very strength from a foe´s limb and add it to their own."
This is also probably why they're not around for too long, the Circle realizes that they're running out of mages to keep Paragon and the Rogue Isles from collapsing on top of them so they stop sending out the Force Mages to the front lines.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Personally I'd like to see some Art Nouveau somewhere in the game.
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Originally Posted by Evilanna
I don't know if this would look out of place in an American city, but I have always loved the Neo-Gothic (Gothic Revival, Victorian Gothic) style of architecture. It's my second favourite style after Art Deco. This style is often used for government buildings in the UK and Canada.
Some notable Neo-Gothic buildings include: The Palace of Westminster: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ter_palace.jpg Parliament Hill: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Parlement.jpg (I especially like the Library of Parliament: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Parliament.jpg ) Boston College: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on_skyline.jpg |
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I was actually just thinking about that earlier today and was thinking that a great way to take care of that would be to create damage textures that attached to buildings during fights and such and faded in time so they don't hinder the game ie. city of bullet holes.
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Originally Posted by Zander6669
I want destruction. If all of us super powered people are running around I expect there to be some damage or at the very least some reconstruction of the damage. Yeah we have zones that are destroyed all over the place but. If this were really a city full of super powers shouldn't their be some damage to buildings? Like a blaster shot that missed the target and made a hole in the wall? Only thing I'd really like to see other wise most stuff has been mentioned all ready.
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Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
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in the spirit of continuity can we please have ALL building missions (such as offices) have the mish entrance be an actual door to a building and ALL cave missions have a cave entrance? there has to be some simple answer to that little oversight.
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Originally Posted by Commander
Ok, I can come up with a lot of "wants" in this area, but can we please, please, please have some continuity updates?
Here's an example of what I mean: Recluse's Victory/all Atlas Mission Maps vs. updated Atlas Park - Continuity is really big for me in CoH. So, it saddens me when I'm in Recluse's Victory and there is no destroyed Wentworth's building. Same with all new mission maps of Atlas (except for the Twilight's Son Ouroboros Arc; that one has Wentworths on a map with the meteor). But there is no Mission Architect building in RV (closed down/destroyed of course) there is no updated Vanguard base, etc. I do appreciate the time and effort that goes into each update, but, storywise, the lack of constant updated continuity kind of ruins it for me. Also, there are some mission maps that are updated while the actual zone isn't. An example of this is the S.E.R.A.P.H. Steel Canyon building from the villainside storyarc. In the villain arc, there is a sign for the SERAPH building and a door that you can enter. However in Steel Canyon, neither exist. |
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
How about some bits of the "environment" that should be variable, but never change? As an example, there's a particular shopping cart that's been parked in King's Row between Wentworth's and Blue Steel for several years now. You don't have to make it so that our toons shove it around. I'm thinking of having stuff like that periodically vanish, move up and down the street, etc. Re-arrange the parked cars&pleasure boats. Change the ships docked at the piers.