Speed Boost? Yes/No
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-05-09 10:53 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I find if I'm not able to form a team and therefore run solo I get bored very quickly, log off and find something else to do.
Being my mindset with respect to online gaming is so narrow, I tend to play my power sets to what I perceive to be their strengths within a team setting.
You cannot control how others will react to your power selections. Some people will kick you immediately if they don't see SB on your kin, while others won't give a damn.
Do what works best for you in the way you enjoy playing the game.
Since you're asking for opinions, mine is that I hate Speed Boost. Totally, completely, and without reservation. I don't have a /kin, and if I ever made one it would be for the sole purpose of *not taking* Speed Boost. I build my characters to be self-sufficient. The Plus Recharge is irrelevant to me, because I don't generally need it. The +Recovery is also irrelevant, because if I'm playing a character that has endurance issues, I've already dealt with it via my own slotting.
The only thing Speed Boost adds to my characters is the ability to get killed, when even tapping a movement key causes me to lurch wildly about. If I'm on a team with a /kin that hits me with it more than once after I've asked to be skipped, then one of us will be exiting the mission in the next minute. (And if I have the star, I will kick a /kin that insists on Speed Boosting me.)
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My empath has the same relationship with the "rez" power and also "absorb pain", and there are times where I have felt "regret" at not having the "rez", but get over it by focusing on playing better to avoid needing it.|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
I've had a Dark/Kin corr waiting to be IO'd, mainly been avoiding it because of the question. To take speed boost or drop it......
I know most would prefer every kin to have speed boost. But, I absolutely hated buffing my team every minute on my road to 50. I've seen maybe 4 kins total in my years here that don't have SB. It never bothered me as I focus my toons to solo regardless of AT. I don't want to "have" to rely on outside buffs that might not be there. So the question is, how many people would it piss off? I mostly won't take it in my final build, just wanting to get the general idea of what others think. |
I believe that your character belongs to you, and as such, you are entitled to skip any powers to make room in your build for the powers that you really want.
If you were on my team it would raise "eyebrows" if you were not passing out speed boost, and I am sure someone would "mention" it. I personally would not say anything to you, especially if the other powers in your arsenal were contributing to the fights in a noticeable way, but in my heart I would feel you had not reached your full "defender" potential until you took SB and used it. Its really that good of a buff.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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I've been on some teams with high level Kinetics without Speed Boost and the Fulcrum alone makes them a huuuge addition to the team. I would hope most people would appeciate you for that. However, SB does add more to a team, if you're willing to endure the buffing cycles.|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
I know what you mean, my Earth/Thermal normally drives me insane. Control/Heal/Buff/Debuff I rarely play him for that reason. I just people would think outside the box on this question. I build all my toons not to absolutely need buffs, even my stone armor brute doesn't need SB lol
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I think the main enemy in this equation is that people will know you could've taken SB, and didn't. And some may not appeciate that, regardless of how much you add to the team as you are. It wouldn't bother me. I'm just saying for some people, it would.
But if you want to do it, do it. Or try it out first on a 2nd build. If people complain too much, or it doesn't suit you, you can switch back.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Tedium is GREATLY reduced by staggering your buffs.
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WHat do you want OP, people are giving their opinions and even giving reasons for their stance and you keep ********. If you dont want to hear their answer, then dont ask the question. If you came on here to see if anyone would agree with you that sb is not needed, the last two pages show youre on your own with that thinking. If it were a solo farm toon, you dont need it. If you are going to team even once, I can almost guarrantee at least one teammate will ask for it.
When Im on my plant/kin I am very up front with how I intend to distribute sb, On my own time to people who dont whine for it. I dont keep the whole team SB'd 24/7, but its up enough and they appreciate it.
I also find sb's a good tool for getting a lazy brute/tank moving. Im not a big fan of breaks between every mob.
SB not needed but it is preferable
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'd rather team with a thousand kins that don't have speedboost than a single plant troller/dom that doesn't have seeds of confusion. Take from that what you will.
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Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
I just people would think outside the box on this question. I build all my toons not to absolutely need buffs, even my stone armor brute doesn't need SB lol
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People should think outside the box or just agree with your take on things? You came here and asked a question, yet argue with everyone who says you should take it. If you don't want it, fine go ahead just don't come here asking for advice if all you are interested in is justification for your wants. I have several kins both sides, I have several bubbler types both sides. It's not THAT hard/bad/annoying to buff people and you can still do plenty of pew pew pew in between. Saying your own characters don't "need" SB because they are built for recharge is no reason for other people not being speed boosted. Good for you if you don't want it from someone else, but that's not a good enough excuse in my book. Sorry, that's just trying to justify away. In my opinion you can never have enough recovery or recharge (up until the cap of course).
I agree with LocalMan (and others take) on the issue. You don't have to keep it 24/7 on teammates, but you should make an effort to keep it on them when it's needed or as much as possible. If you are in the middle of a fight, you can wait til between spawns so you can keep up with the pew pew pew. If teammates get impatient let them know you'll get them in between fights. Noone really needs ANY buff in Coh/v, but it makes things much easier if they get them. And it makes for a better rounded character to give them out; i.e. corrupting isn't JUST about shooting enemies, buffs and debuffs are part of a corruptors MO. It increases overall team effeciency if it's used and how can anyone be against that?
But as some have said, don't take it if you don't want it, but realize it may limit your teaming potential and in my opinion it greatly decreases your characters overall power and roll in a team. YMMV
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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My thoughts exactly... Sure enough, the OP has proved the above with his behavior in this topic.| I find that most people who don't take Speed Boost tend to be selfish . . . not all, but most. SB is a small inconvenience that provides a big benefit for the team. |
That said, I don't care that much about kins not having SB, much like I don't care about anyone not having X power. As long as you're not being annoying and actually try to contribute, I'm fine with anything.
Simple answer to a simple question..
your a kin...you hate to SB people...SO DONT TAKE IT.
Kin is a great power without SB
People who relie on SB are just people who have a crap build.
Plus they cant complain if u have I'm not a SB'er or I Dont have SB in your search comments/Bio.
If people dont like it- screw them, just goes to show how usless they are.
It's YOUR BUILD YOUR WAY OF PLAYING NOT THEIRS.
I don't have speed boost, nor do I feel bad for not having it. The rare times that I am asked "oy, where's the sb mate?" from my Australian friend who apparently lives in my head, I reply:
Speed Boost is a nice low level buff that can help reduce the endurance cost of powers and the recharge rates of the party between the casters attack cycle which can greatly increase the performance of your team at a time when they're all averaging about 2-3 attacks per person.
However, by the time the Kin has Transference the team's endurance issues are largely over, and by that level they should have an attack string that doesn't require Speed Boost to efficiently utilize. By Fulcrum Shift the entire team's damage has increased so greatly that adding more recharge at the expense of my own attack string and sanity no longer felt worth the maximum 19 seconds it takes to apply it to a full party every two bloody minutes.
Furthermore, I was able to fit in another power I wanted by not taking SB, and getting rid of it eliminates the possibility that grumpy team leader is going to DEMAND I SB his crappy build that can't function without it. Quite frankly "SB Plz" is the sign of a Granite Tanker or a bad team and I would much rather leave than be stuck with either of those (I'm sorry Granite, it's not you it's me.).
So while I do recognize the potential power of SB, I ultimately feel that it is only needed pre-transference, and as I've a habit of not taking powers I'm not going to be using all the way to 50, I opted to just not take it at all, which is why I do not have SB today on any Kin that I've ever made.
Perhaps if Speed Boost lasted longer than it takes to microwave myself dinner and had a PbAOE (which made the distinction not to cast upon me) it would find it's way back into my heart, but for the time being it's going to remain in the same pile as the many significant others who could never please me correctly, but were always there, nagging on me every second, demanding that I pay attention to their every need and want until I just let them die so I could use Vengeance off their bloody corpse.
'Mate.
I think SB is one of the most powerful buffs in the game. So simple and rewarding, yet so very frustrating.
I admit, I am sometimes short fused. So if I am on a team and liberally applying SB to my team and it happens to drop for a moment, and one member finds the time to complain about not getting SB, I will probably snap back.
Even more effective is just discontinuing SB altogether for that person. There are a number of powers that a kin has that are fun and powerful, so if you just happen to spend some time using your other powers, I don't think you should be held to the fire for questioning.
Teammates that I will continually SB without them asking- buffers or stone armor users. Buffers get it because buffs up more often is helpful for the whole team. Stone armor users get it because most haven't overcome the runspeed curse they inherit, and it is just pitiful watching them try to get around without it.
All others get it when I am in the mood and area. I do my best to build all of my toons to be efficient with endurance, so don't get angry at me because your toon has ED (endurance dysfunction). If I see you low on gas, I will probably try to shoot you a boost or even fill you up with a transference. But just because you are having endurance problems doesn't mean you are entitled to a SB. SB is optional, not mandatory. Get over it.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
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You expect Dom's to grind and adjust their entire build to be Perma'd, but do not like the fact that others expect a Kin to use a power pick on SB?|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
Sorry my Doms are all perma'd w/o help, so I don't personally see most of your argument as truely valid. IMO those doms need to grind and get perma'd so they don't need a kin.
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Interesting.
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Originally Posted by RabidBrian
WHat do you want OP, people are giving their opinions and even giving reasons for their stance and you keep ********. If you dont want to hear their answer, then dont ask the question. If you came on here to see if anyone would agree with you that sb is not needed, the last two pages show youre on your own with that thinking..
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Originally Posted by MentalMaden
People should think outside the box or just agree with your take on things? You came here and asked a question, yet argue with everyone who says you should take it. If you don't want it, fine go ahead just don't come here asking for advice if all you are interested in is justification for your wants.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
My thoughts exactly... Sure enough, the OP has proved the above with his behavior in this topic.
That said, I don't care that much about kins not having SB, much like I don't care about anyone not having X power. As long as you're not being annoying and actually try to contribute, I'm fine with anything. |
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Originally Posted by Wintervoid
You expect Dom's to grind and adjust their entire build to be Perma'd, but do not like the fact that others expect a Kin to use a power pick on SB?
Interesting. |
Seriously though, its not the same, I've never kicked or seen a dom kicked for not being perma. Grinding and building for perma is a personal choice. Would I prefer it? Yes. Do I expect it? No. It's their toon, I don't pay their fees. I don't see it as the same because one is a team buff thats annoying to upkeep and obviously upsets people when they don't have it.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
That was just an example, dude, chill out. You asked about SB and most people (even the coming storm who loves trolling, not that he bothers me, but he annoys a lot of people usually) gave constructive arguments and you got all fired up because 'you are l33t' and we are supposed to know that you're an uber player who have multiple purpled out toons. Fact is, most people at 50, heavily IOed or not, endurance issues or not, benefit greatly from SB, but you're too thick to understand we're just trying to give our points of view, but since you think 'everybody needs to be IO'ed out', why bother asking?
Not that it matters, but my dom is perma since i11, she wasn't at the time of that particular ITF (AGAIN, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW SB HELPED AN ITF GO SMOOTHER, DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?). Jeez, people try to help, nobody flamed you for asking about the utility of SB, and you reply with arrogance (not only to me). Way to go dude! |
I was never angry at anyone, your example showed an example on the use of the power. I simply replied what I think about Doms who don't attempt to perma. I know more then a few doms who refuse to even try to perma. In turn, I agree, I'm extremely "thick" as you stated when it comes to perma dom. I feel the same about petless MMs.
As I stated previously its still in my current build, w/ macros included. I'll see how big teams go and maybe learn to adapt. I just don't understand why people get all upset about people "having" to have the power. Kinetics brings so much more to the team other than speed boost. I've personally never kicked a kin w/o SB myself. Its clear this is a touchy subject.
Just curious on what looked like an inconsistency.
For the record, I really do not care what powers a toon has as long as they contribute to a team, even if all they contribute to a team is some witty remarks. 
I would say play what you want, how you want, as long as you are not actively endangering your team.
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Not angry, just said you were a bit arrogant from people just giving their opinions, no one said things like 'nub take sb or you'll be gimped'.| I was never angry at anyone, your example showed an example on the use of the power. I simply replied what I think about Doms who don't attempt to perma. I know more then a few doms who refuse to even try to perma. In turn, I agree, I'm extremely "thick" as you stated when it comes to perma dom. I feel the same about petless MMs. |
On the dom issue, although I don't think permadom is that necessary now after the revamp, I never said I wasn't attempting to perma my dom at the time (I ended up doing it). She was my 1st 50 redside and I was poor there, it took me more than one month to perma her after 50, you know how the black market is.
Even heavily IO'ed toons can benefit from SB. I have a mind/emp with 3 secs off permahasten (more rech than my permadom). I stopped adding recharge to her because she has so much control and buffs that she's already as much as I can handle without going crazy since I have to pay attention to enemies, player health bars, who's forted or not, and adding like 20% extra recharge wouldn't make a LOT of difference... But give me SB and suddenly the extra long buffs such as regen and recovery aura have a lot less downtime - as the very long recharging Mass Confusion - and I can keep Adrenalin Boost on more than one person at once. For example, my regen/recov aura have 50 secs downtime (they recharge on 141 secs and last for 90, remember base for them is 500s). Give me 2 kins with SB and the downtime drops to 20 seconds for very useful buffs.
I find it very valuable when exemplaring also if you intend to do it with your toon since from what you said it looks like she's 50. I 'tanked' a low level TF (the 20-25 one) on a 24 Spines/Dark because of two kins in the team. Gave me the ability to use dark regen whenever it was up (which many IO'ed /dark armor toons can't do or their end will plunge) and have practically a 'Spine Burst - Spine Burst - Spine Burst' attack chain (sure, using some filler between the AoE because it took like 2 secs to recharge) allowing the mobs to focus on me because of all the AoE damage I was doing, since /DA scrappers have no taunt aura like tankers.
But I stated my opinion already - in my particular case, I ask why the kin doesn't have SB to know if it's because she doesn't know how good the power is or she just doesn't like it, and I'm fine either way as long as the player isn't rude or a complete idiot - and I use 'idiot' for extreme cases like aggroing whole rooms, doing things that REALLY hurt the team (I think I mentioned I don't even mind empaths with no attacks and the med pool as long as they're contributing), I just emphasized that I'm very tolerant as long as things are going okay and that I've seen harsh reactions from other players to kins without sb, but I was never condemning your choice.
Agree with you on petless MMs tho, I think they are gimped from the start because they're just corrs with (much) weaker attacks and weaker buffs/debuffs. I just find quite an exaggeration to compare non perma doms to petless MMs, especially after the dom revamp, since they control as ewll as controllers (except for the overpower thing that trollers get sometimes) and put out serious damage (example: Blaze, 189 dmg on Blasters, 168 on Doms). But that's besides the point of the thread, I think that, being arrogant, snarky or not, you got the answers you wanted and you'll find out how 'accepted' this is by other teammates as you play.
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19 seconds to apply SB? You must be a noob. That is why you stagger the buffs, not wait for it to recharge and do nothing.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
I don't have speed boost, nor do I feel bad for not having it. The rare times that I am asked "oy, where's the sb mate?" from my Australian friend who apparently lives in my head, I reply:
Speed Boost is a nice low level buff that can help reduce the endurance cost of powers and the recharge rates of the party between the casters attack cycle which can greatly increase the performance of your team at a time when they're all averaging about 2-3 attacks per person. However, by the time the Kin has Transference the team's endurance issues are largely over, and by that level they should have an attack string that doesn't require Speed Boost to efficiently utilize. By Fulcrum Shift the entire team's damage has increased so greatly that adding more recharge at the expense of my own attack string and sanity no longer felt worth the maximum 19 seconds it takes to apply it to a full party every two bloody minutes. Furthermore, I was able to fit in another power I wanted by not taking SB, and getting rid of it eliminates the possibility that grumpy team leader is going to DEMAND I SB his crappy build that can't function without it. Quite frankly "SB Plz" is the sign of a Granite Tanker or a bad team and I would much rather leave than be stuck with either of those (I'm sorry Granite, it's not you it's me.). So while I do recognize the potential power of SB, I ultimately feel that it is only needed pre-transference, and as I've a habit of not taking powers I'm not going to be using all the way to 50, I opted to just not take it at all, which is why I do not have SB today on any Kin that I've ever made. Perhaps if Speed Boost lasted longer than it takes to microwave myself dinner and had a PbAOE (which made the distinction not to cast upon me) it would find it's way back into my heart, but for the time being it's going to remain in the same pile as the many significant others who could never please me correctly, but were always there, nagging on me every second, demanding that I pay attention to their every need and want until I just let them die so I could use Vengeance off their bloody corpse. 'Mate. |
SB: Good for buffs and debuffs and not just an attack chain. Kthx.
Just always team with another Kin. That way nobody will know you're not SB'ing (except the other kin). 
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
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Then you're playing the wrong AT Powerset.|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
I've had a Dark/Kin corr waiting to be IO'd, mainly been avoiding it because of the question. To take speed boost or drop it......
I know most would prefer every kin to have speed boost. But, I absolutely hated buffing my team every minute... |
I'm serious, if you hate buffing your team mates don't play sets that have buffs for your team mates.
Because advertising yourself as a kin and leaving out one of the most important buffs you get will cause frustration for people you group with.
I recommend Dark Miasma or Radiation Emission.
If I team with a Kin, I expect them to have SB just like I would expect an Emp to have Heal Other. If you mostly play solo then I see it not being a problem, but if you team a lot and don't have SB, I would advertise that you do not have it before you join a team.
My question is, what other power would you take instead of SB? There's not many powers that you can benefit greatly from just having the base slot.
One of the reasons of you not wanting to take is not having to buff so often. Well, you really don't have to be a buff bot and keep SB up on everyone at all times, it's a given that it won't always be on you. If someone isn't by you to receive the buff, then that's tough luck for them and you can get them on the next cycle of buffs.
Also, you can easily play a kin with SB and still attack and deal damage so I don't think that's really an excuse. I mean if you want to do more damage, why did you go with Dark Blast in the first place.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
If you are asking yourself this question then the answer should probably be "no, don't take it". I'm extrapolating here, but my guess is one who is ambiguous about taking sb would often be less than enthusiastic in it's application. You can kin perfectly well w/out the power, so why spend a power choice on somehting you won't utilize?
I personally find it to be a fantastic power, and it very much fits my gogogo type of playstyle. When applying, you can target through you allies and pop off attacks--I find it best to start during the cleanup of the last few baddies in a group.
Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
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You must not be familiar with how TIME works. Just because you apply them haphazardly doesn't mean they still don't accumulate to (at max) 19 seconds. |
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
19 seconds to apply SB? You must be a noob. That is why you stagger the buffs, not wait for it to recharge and do nothing.
SB: Good for buffs and debuffs and not just an attack chain. Kthx. |
For example, stand there for 30 seconds, but spend a total of 19 seconds picking your nose. You can either pick your nose for the full 19 seconds, or you can divide it into shorter intervals, the choice is yours, just make sure you spend a total of 19 seconds in there during the 30 seconds allotted. At the end, you will have noticed 19 seconds have passed. That's because THIS IS HOW TIME WORKS.
Besides that, if you were really good, you wouldn't be casting Speed Boost *during* combat, you'd be casting it inbetween. Regardless of how you apply it, Speed Boost has a bunch of annoying complications that usually focus around the theme of, "Oh my god stop running away from me god **** it I'm going to nail your head into the ground so I don't have to find you anymore." which can lengthen the amount of time it takes to apply the thing to everyone. You may opt not to cast it on people such as this. I opt not to cast it at all (for reasons already detailed.)
Moving away from you now, because I demand to have a discussion with someone who has an intellect higher than the object in his avatar;
The argument that you shouldn't play Kin if you don't like speed boosting doesn't really hold merit. SB is a nice buff but it is far from being anything but the icing on a cake after Transference and Fulcrum Shift. Once you recognize that your team should never have endurance problems again after Transference, you realize that SB is giving a 50% recharge buff to everyone. That's not bad, it's nothing to be sneezed at, but I have to question how necessary it is after Fulcrum Shift has given everyone a 250% (defender) dam buff. Obviously it's still going to hold some merit, but during the twisty agonizing "arresting" that results after a Fulcrum Shift I have a very difficult time seeing why we needed everyone to be 50% faster on top of all this destruction. Especially when it saves me sanity.
Well, there's really VERY little a kin can do that's more effective than keeping a team SB'd as much as practical... and it takes very little of your time. I have no problem keeping SB full time on an 8 man team while also handling all the control duties of a Mind/Kin 'troller and Fulcrum Shift when it's up.
SB is, in my opinion, the single best buff in the game. There isn't any build that can't benefit in some manner by a 50% recharge buff... and the extra recovery is very useful for many builds as well. It takes about 15 seconds at most every 2 minutes to keep the team buffed with keybinds. If someone isn't in range when you're going down the list then bypass them and hit them later.
As Local and Mental mentioned I wouldn't kick a kin without SB from the team, but I would make a note and not invite them again. A kin is expected to have and use SB; it doesn't take long to do and it makes a huge difference in the team's efficiency. As an example I just finished a Manticore TF and we had a kin who was efficient about keeping everyone SB'd, popping Fulcrum and blasting away in the downtime. We finished the TF in just over an hour in part because of the buffs from the kin.
Bottom line is that it's your character to play as you see fit, but I personally wouldn't invite you a second time, and if you list /kin in your team search description you WILL have complaints if you don't have and use SB.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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It's your character, so it's your call. I personally have taken Speed Boost on all my Kinetics, though I have a soft-capped S/L corruptor that doesn't have it on Build 1 (I have it on Build 2).|
Originally Posted by Gypsy_of_Paradox
I've had a Dark/Kin corr waiting to be IO'd, mainly been avoiding it because of the question. To take speed boost or drop it......
I know most would prefer every kin to have speed boost. But, I absolutely hated buffing my team every minute on my road to 50. I've seen maybe 4 kins total in my years here that don't have SB. It never bothered me as I focus my toons to solo regardless of AT. I don't want to "have" to rely on outside buffs that might not be there. So the question is, how many people would it piss off? I mostly won't take it in my final build, just wanting to get the general idea of what others think. |
One problem I have with Speed Boost is that so many people don't want it (this is more true blueside, it seems, because so many Brutes have a desperate need for it). It's kind of annoying getting yelled at by half the team for not Speed Boosting them and then getting yelled at for Speed Boosting the other half.
Like you I build my characters to not need things like Speed Boost. At the higher levels I can take it or leave on my melee characters, but I'll almost always take it on my ranged characters because there's much less maneuvering (and I take Hover a lot of the time, which is great with Speed Boost).
I guess I'd recommend doing what you want on your primary build and then have a low-cost build that has Speed Boost in case you're on a team that really needs SB.
Sorry my Doms are all perma'd w/o help, so I don't personally see most of your argument as truely valid. IMO those doms need to grind and get perma'd so they don't need a kin.
Not that it matters, but my dom is perma since i11, she wasn't at the time of that particular ITF (AGAIN, IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW SB HELPED AN ITF GO SMOOTHER, DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?).
Jeez, people try to help, nobody flamed you for asking about the utility of SB, and you reply with arrogance (not only to me).
Way to go dude!