RabidBrian

Knockup is its own effect. Any magnitude of knockup will do knockup, unless resisted. Any knockback that is of mag .67 or lower (might be set at <1.0) will do knockdown.

That post you speak of was in the i18 closed beta.

And 100% true story, I IO my toons at level 22 for less than SO'ing them out costs.

ha ha

If that were the case we would never have animation changes. And we have had plenty of animation changes.

But yeah leave it as is. If they did that, what stops them from doing that to all the pool powers instead of pool power customization?

It doesnt show the game knows how high one is flying/hovering, it just shows the power has a given castable range.

I dont think FS is immediately barred from hover-use because of concept, because after all its in the same set as handclap, but its definitely a little sketchy. Handclap is the percussive force of your hands hitting each other. I cant see Footstomping air doing much, in the real world or superhero world.

Superstrength is the melee AT AoE damage king because of one attack. It has 3 aoe's, but 2 dont do damage. So while I get what you are saying, it doesnt hold much weight. One power can definitely define the set. In fact, most sets are defined by one or two powers.

And taking that set defining power and taking away its most beneficial part changes the whole sets play. Unless you dont use the power...

Yeah, and all I said was thats unacceptable to me. Those two attacks are what makes Energy melee, energy melee. They shouldnt be that situational. The rest of the set is white bread, with some mold on WH. Nothing special outside of ET and TF.

I wasnt comparing powers. Rage and FS (and KoB, forgot to mention it) are what makes SS the set it is. Fault and Seismic smash give stone melee its individuality. LR and TS (and chain, but whatev) are elec's. And ET and TF are energy melee's.

Im more or less going off the thought process of how many missions involve EBs and AVs compared to not? Cus he says to "ignore the fact you have them" until you get to an EB or AV. Think of a story arc, where in a series of missions you may fight an eb/av in maybe two missions. And in those missions it will be one fight out of the whole mission. Thats after youve done four plus missions without EBs or AVs to get there.

Think about papers, where you never fight EBs and AVs. Think about TFs, the EB/AV central, where you still fight a majority of the time not against an EB/AV.

Actually he did, with that whole "ignore the fact you have tf and et." Ignoreing the fact you have them is doing the same as forgetting about them, you arent using them. So uh, take your own advice maybe?

Thats a horrid comparison. Your stalker, which btw there are multiple threads discussing the lack of a role for stalkers on teams (not waiting for them to AS is a big one,) has hide, is not automatically expected to take aggro, and therefor is not expected to start every fight off. When your stalker jumps into the mob, the rest of the team doesnt see it as their time to start fighting, they wait for the tank/brute. Right when a brute or tank jumps into a mob, the attacks start flying. Its not uncommon for squishys to attack through the tank/brute, meaning they will attack the same target. Enter in the corpse shooting.

And also nearly two times longer huh? So when did 3 seconds become two times longer than 3.3 seconds? There are only two versions (not counting KM) that have assassins strikes cast times longer than TF, the blade primaries, which are 3.67. All the rest activate faster than TF. And with ET activating in 2.67 seconds, that makes the fastest AS activating 1/6 times slower, a far cry from half. The slowest activate a second slower, still not near half.

That would be like telling an SS player to forget about rage and FS, or a stoner to forget about fault and SM. Or An elec and telling them to forget about LS or TS. Without ET and TF, EM is leagues worse than the other sets. So no, any time the answer is forgetting those two powers, its unacceptable to me.

Right, and Im saying some sets are barred from its use. It would be useful to sets like invuln, wp, dark, ice, and even shield, if it did knockdown. Still get the mitigation without putting yourself in more danger after the stun effect wears off, unless the guys not hit/effected down you first.

I say shields too because I have an elec/shielder who had lightning clap, but I respec'd out because when I would use it on teams, it would knock guys out of my taunt aura and after wandering a little, the stun would wear off and theyd find one of my teammates to beat on. And Elec doesnt have its large radius aoe available as often as SS with footstomp, so I couldnt grab their attention that way.


So did you respec out of it or am I reading that wrong?

And yeah, you forgot ice, with chilling embrace.

Thats just dumb though. You are complaining that super strength toons dont have any aoe -before they get their aoe power.- And its not just some subpar aoe, its the hands down best melee AT aoe in the game. Undisputed. So what if you have to be a little ST focused early on to get it. At least you get KoB at level 8. The best AoE set also gets its heavy hitter ten levels before ET gets total focus. AND, have you ever even looked at KoB's numbers? It does more damage with rage up than Energy Transfer does, and KoB does it in .4 seconds less time. It does the same amount of damage as Total focus, with rage turned off, but it does it over a second faster. Yeah, the aoe master set also has better burst damage than energy transfer, the most aoe lacking set. Im still trying to figure out why comparing the best aoe melee set to the worst was somehow a good idea in your mind. How was that supposed to support your arguement?
Does it really seem that blatantly obvious to you? If so, Im guessing you are going off assumptions, never actually looking at the numbers. Lets do a side by side comparison of damage.

jab 51.1
punch 75.1
hay 123.1
kob 267.3
hurl 123.1
fs 106.6

All smashing damage, which btw if Im not mistaken is not as resisted as lethal.

barrage 55.1 /\ 41.76 /\ 13.34
epunch 41.7 /\ 29.2 /\ 12.5
bsmasher 68.4 / \ 41.7 /\ 26.7
wh 41.7 /\ 25 /\ 16.7
tf 148.5 /\ 41.7 /\ 106.8
et 190.2 /\ 65.1 /\ 125.1

Obviously not a pretty spreadsheet, but the first numbers the overall, the second is the smashing damage, the third is the energy damage. Notice how only tf and et have a majority of their damage being energy. The rest of the attacks have a majority of their damage being smashing. Now I am not 100% on how resistance is checked, but my understanding is it checks how much damage is comming in from that damage type, and uses your damage resistance to that type as a deducting percentage.

So lets do the same numbers, against a guy with 50% smashing resistance and 0 energy resistance. The first number is the normal attack damage (SS has rage applied once) and the second is the damage dealt once you take into account the 50% resistance.

jab 51.1 /\ 25.55
punch 75.1 /\ 37.55
hay 123.1 /\ 61.55
kob 267.3 /\ 133.65
hurl 123.1 /\ 61.55
fs 106.6 /\ 53.3

barrage 55.1 / \ 34.22
epunch 41.7 /\ 27.1
bsmasher 68.4 /\ 47.55
wh 41.7 /\ 29.2
tf 148.5 /\ 127.65
et 190.2 /\ 176.65

Even with 50% resistance to your exact damage type, KoB outdamages TF, and in a second faster time. Same end cost, kob has a 5 second longer recharge. ET outdamages KoB, but again, this is against someone with 50% resistance to smashing, and 0 resistance to energy. Obviously punch is the redheaded stepchild, but on EVERY OTHER POWER SS still comes out doing more damage even with the 50% resistance to smashing, 0% resistance to energy.

It is not blatantly obvious.

Not once have I tossed a number out there using double stacked rage or fury in this thread. Every number for SS is using a single application of rage, because attempting to balance SS without rage is not a sound method.
I only jumped on you for mentioning EM because you were so absurdly wrong. Had you chose a different set to use in comparison, I may not have come on so strong. But seriously, you chose the most overperforming melee set and compared it to a VERY debated underperforming set.

Handclap wasnt given damage for balance reasons. I dont think it should be given damage either, since neither SS nor Elec melee need any more aoe damage. The change I am for is changing the KB mag to .67, so it becomes knockdown, and is enhanceable back to knockback mag after using any amount of kb enhanceing.


edit: hunting down the pink. Also for clarity on my spreadsheet 5000.

You gonna try to somehow back up that completely inaccurate statement? Because it doesnt take a genius to realize hitting just 3 people with a rage-buffed FS outdamages ET. How often do you hit two or more people with FS?

Energy melee does consistently less aoe damage than almost (almost may be putting it nicely) every other set in the game. Energy melee does not even do the most single target damage. Even with both its big hitters.

Seriously, how does your statement make sense to you...

It wasnt "some arcs," it was any mission that had "defeat x guy and crew." That X guy is going to be a boss. That means solo, theres a boss in the mission. Look back and read where I said boss in every mob. I didnt. I was talking about THE boss you fight to complete the mission. It is going to be a boss, until you choose the setting that turns all bosses into lieuts. That setting makes it a lieut, nothing else.

It is in ouro.

Until you go to a SF or something that does not allow you to turn bosses off.

Nothing about the level/hero equivolent changes if you fight bosses or not. Nothing. If it did, there would be no purpose for the other setting.

Ive admitted where I was wrong/ misinforming, but reading that would not have allowed you to type it anyways huh?

Guess what else is default? The starting zones. Doesnt mean the other zones dont exist. Doesnt mean those are the only zones you need. Doesnt mean thats the only normal zone...

Haha dude you can say it as many times as you want, it doesnt change the truth. Changing it to 0/1 HAS NO EFFECT on if you fight a boss as a lieut or a boss, you have to go to the other setting, the setting that either COMPLETELY removes bosses from your missions, or lets you fight them as bosses when you are SUPPOSED TO. When you switch to 0/1, it does not automatically switch it to lieuts only, you still have to go down and change that completely different setting.

Its not hard to check. Go do a 0/1 mission with bosses turned off. With bosses turned off, you wont fight any bosses (novel concept huh!) Now, go turn on the setting to allow boss spawns when solo. You may want to grab a seat and take a deep breath though, because you may be blown back to find you have to fight bosses! Its pretty freaking obvious having it set to lieuts only is the abnormal setting (default aside.) You would never come across a normal mission for a team of 8 (0/8 by setting) with no bosses in it. However, when you switch to lieuts only, thats what you will get. When you do that same mish with the same number of people, just not set to lieuts only, it does not turn all the lieuts into bosses. It allows the bosses that were supposed to be there, be there.

Shocking, you were proven to be wrong, obviously wrong, and you cant admit it. Says a lot about you.

I was not trying to say we are supposed to be able to solo eb's, it was a poor example. The fact of the matter is, default settings aside, no dev currently working on this game has stated one player is equal to x npc, x type npc, or anything like that. No dev currently working on this game has stated one player should not be able to solo one boss. Years ago when the game was owned by a different company, a dev stated a given set balance structure. Many years have passed and the game has been through radical changes that make it no where near the same game as far as balance structure goes. That is my point. The statement no longer applies, nore does it ring true. Any AT should be able to solo a boss (with so's.) Some powerset combos may have a tougher time, your power choices may make it impossible, or the boss type may make it hopeless, but nothing from the AT side should be barring you from soloing any bosses.