I respec'd out of it because of the animation. I have never done that before. Even some of the other silly animations are worth dealing with.
It's similar to why I didn't go see "Wanted." With some Gun Fu it's just too hard to suspend my belief.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
That animation is awesome, and you're both terrible people for saying otherwise. Terrible.
I hate to do it - but I have to agree. The pistols are too fu. All that dancing about was very "Oooo Ahhhh" when it first was shown, but now I'd be happy with a point and shoot.
**Damien**
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. "
This is a strong case towards the suggestions in Castle's thread to create an alternate animation set for DP, something more minimalistic. Everyone could be happy then 
People play archery all the time and it doesnt have barrel roll, ring of fire type jumping animations. Theres no reason DP needs to be so over the top.
Actually, I stopped playing my archer, despite it being a great Primary, because I was so bored with the limited animation and effects. It didn't help that the sound effects for it are so subtle, either.
Don't get me wrong, I think Archery is great as-is, but just not for me. (I did get annoyed on some bigger teams when other players would ask me if I was participating in the combat because they couldn't tell I was shooting my arrows with all of the other effects going on.)
While I like the over-the-top animation and effects for Dual Pistols, I can completely understand if someone just wanted them to be more like the Mastermind versions as far as looks go.
I just wish Dual Pistols performed as well as Archery. Replacing Aim with Swap Ammo seems almost a cruel trade off. Even after 20 levels I can't really see any major difference no matter what element I choose. (Except for the stun/hold of course.) For how little it adds, it should have just been an inherent power given at lvl 6 without taking up a power choice.
If they could do alternate animations for Super Strength, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch for them to do the same thing for other sets.
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This.... oh wait I read that wrong. Strike that, reverse it, continue please.|
Originally Posted by Khiva
That animation is awesome, and you're both terrible people for saying otherwise. Terrible.
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| That animation is terrible, and you're both awesome people for saying so. Awesome. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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What, they couldn't see the huge flight of arrows from Fistful of Arrows? Or the big explosion from Explosive Arrow? Or the splash of fire from Blazing Arrow? Or the massive patch of arrows sprouting around and in all their enemies from all your powers, but especially Rain of Arrows? Must be blind!|
Originally Posted by Honor_NA
Actually, I stopped playing my archer, despite it being a great Primary, because I was so bored with the limited animation and effects. It didn't help that the sound effects for it are so subtle, either.
Don't get me wrong, I think Archery is great as-is, but just not for me. (I did get annoyed on some bigger teams when other players would ask me if I was participating in the combat because they couldn't tell I was shooting my arrows with all of the other effects going on.) |
Personally, I love the "thwip, thwip, thwip," of the set. Might be for everyone, though.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
This.... oh wait I read that wrong. Strike that, reverse it, continue please.
(fixed) |
Piercing Rounds is kind of goofy, but it's pretty cool, too. But I also liked the more straightforward animations for the three attacks in the Masterminds Thugs set.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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It was the first thing I did when that thread appeared and from reading through it a majority of the first posts had that at least somewhere in them.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
*sighs* This is what alternate animations are for, and why you should post in Castle's thread about this. As I've pointed out there and elsewhere, if they had more straightforward animations on the attacks, we'd be hearing people ask for more gun fu animations: you just can't please everyone, which is why more options are a good thing.
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You are right that's what alternate animations are for but I prefer more options not less. Animations that fit the widest array of character concepts should be what all sets are released with. Specialized animations should be the alternates. I'll submit that DP was done backwards.
Had DP been done the way that many players were expecting (aim and shoot) the rooting/animation times would have been much lower. I'm not sure how they'll be able to do more sedate animations that don't look like you are purposely wasting time. (That would actually be good. DP really needs to be sped up quite a bit. At release it was in as bad a shape as Archery and Assault Rifle were at their release(s).) DP's animations were old and annoying for me a mere week into closed Beta. They are still annoying and distracting now.
I'm also still of the opinion that giving the set Swap Ammo instead of Aim was a bad move. Though it could easily be redeemed by making the damage 30% lethal and 70% exotic instead of the way things are currently.
It's going to take alot of dev tweaking to the new sets before I'll find them enjoyable.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I like the animations of Malta Gunslingers. There's something ominous about how relaxed they are. They're not slow, but they're not in a rush either. I've always liked them.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
*sighs* This is what alternate animations are for, and why you should post in Castle's thread about this. As I've pointed out there and elsewhere, if they had more straightforward animations on the attacks, we'd be hearing people ask for more gun fu animations: you just can't please everyone, which is why more options are a good thing.
Piercing Rounds is kind of goofy, but it's pretty cool, too. But I also liked the more straightforward animations for the three attacks in the Masterminds Thugs set. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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It is not possible for your first point to be true, since new defiance made the tier 1 and 2 attacks be standard. Beyond that, you severely underestimate how long the Rifle animations used to be. While I wish at least one of the Pistol AoEs were in the 1.5 to 2 second range instead of them all being ~2.5 seconds (not counting HoB, which is fine in relation to the other tier 9s like it) and I would have liked to see Executioner's Shot at 2 seconds or a bit less, Dual Pistols has much better damage per animation times than Rifle and even Archery had at their release points.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
(That would actually be good. DP really needs to be sped up quite a bit. At release it was in as bad a shape as Archery and Assault Rifle were at their release(s).) DP's animations were old and annoying for me a mere week into closed Beta. They are still annoying and distracting now.
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Your second point is subjective. Outside of the forums I have only seen one person complain about how the animations look, while I have seen many express how awesome they thought they were. Even on the forums, despite the fact that negative criticism is more likely to be expressed, the praise for how it looks has been much more prevalent (although not nearly as oft repeated by those who like them).
Your bias against Dual Pistols has gotten to the point where if someone asks about the set, it is almost assured you will make a post in the thread decrying its deficiencies and painting the set in the most negative light possible. You even go so far as to tell people to not play it. You should take a more balanced approach to your description of the set, IMO, because there are plenty of things it does well.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Yes the tier 1 and 2 are standardized. I have no doubt that had they not been required to be standardized by defiance we would have gotten over long animations for them as well. I remember well how long the animations for Archery and AR were. The Archer toon and Soldier toon that I played prior to their upgrades didn't need stamina for any reason. The animations were so long that as long as you slotted an end red in each power you recovered end almost as fast as you spent it due mainly to the length of animation times. With Hasten running my attack chain was Blazing, Fistfull, Explosive, Aimed. I didn't need other powers (Except RoA as an opener) because one of the above 4 was always recharged. The main point that I am making here is that the devs have NOT learned (or have forgotten) the lesson taught by Archery and AR where Blasters and animation times are concerned.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is not possible for your first point to be true, since new defiance made the tier 1 and 2 attacks be standard. Beyond that, you severely underestimate how long the Rifle animations used to be. While I wish at least one of the Pistol AoEs were in the 1.5 to 2 second range instead of them all being ~2.5 seconds (not counting HoB, which is fine in relation to the other tier 9s like it) and I would have liked to see Executioner's Shot at 2 seconds or a bit less, Dual Pistols has much better damage per animation times than Rifle and even Archery had at their release points.
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| Your second point is subjective. Outside of the forums I have only seen one person complain about how the animations look, while I have seen many express how awesome they thought they were. Even on the forums, despite the fact that negative criticism is more likely to be expressed, the praise for how it looks has been much more prevalent (although not nearly as oft repeated by those who like them). |
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| Your bias against Dual Pistols has gotten to the point where if someone asks about the set, it is almost assured you will make a post in the thread decrying its deficiencies and painting the set in the most negative light possible. You even go so far as to tell people to not play it. You should take a more balanced approach to your description of the set, IMO, because there are plenty of things it does well. |
When people ask a question I try to be as honest as possible. There is nothing that the set truly excels at except for the sheer number of procs that can be packed into it (which I have mentioned frequently). There is nothing in the power set that one of the other power sets does not do better.
I'm sorry I can't take a more balanced approach to my description of the set, as it stands now, as doing so would not be honest. There are deficiencies in the set and there is no corresponding strength to mitigate those deficiencies.
(This is the same reason that I will not play, nor recommend, Psi/)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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I don't know how to respond. "Most" (why are we putting this in quotes?) of the things I do with my characters in this game are flat out unbelievable. Walk is fairly immersive and doesn't crash into my suspension of disbelief too much.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Part of the fun is the suspension of belief that "most" of the power sets in the game could actually be done in the real world given the right circumstances. All powers beyond the tier 2 power in DP are outside the realm of that. I find that immersion breaking in a game I play at least partly for the immersion.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Ah, but it isn't bias. My comments are entirely made through my experiences playing the set.
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The fact is that it has middle of the road single target damage and low top end AoE damage when you want and can drop the damage to low tier for more control/debuff. Only your bias that that choice is not worth much makes the set "bad".
The set is simply not bad enough to actively encourage people away from it. It is not old Mace. It is not Barb Swipe.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
My experience differs from yours in that most of the veteran players on the server that I play on do not like the set and are vocal about it.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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"Most" (in quotes to be sure that everyone understands that I know that each set has it's outliers) of the powers and animations as designed try to at least come close to the real world physics required to pull them off (barring programming limitations). Close enough that I'm comfortable using them, and accepting them without giving it too much thought beyond that. Most of the DP animations from the tier 3 on up (barring Executioner's Shot) do not fit that mold and are so far the opposite that I find my self being disturbed by them to the point of distraction. This defeats my purpose in playing the set and the game.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I don't know how to respond. "Most" (why are we putting this in quotes?) of the things I do with my characters in this game are flat out unbelievable. Walk is fairly immersive and doesn't crash into my suspension of disbelief too much.
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| I am not entirely sure you know what the word bias means. I agree you are basing your comments on your experience. But your experience is not the only thing that should matter. It is fine to state that it has some drawbacks and that you think it should be improved. IMO, it is not fine for you to say, "DP as it stands now is not a good blaster set though it is a decent defender secondary/corrupter primary." |
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| The fact is that it has middle of the road single target damage and low top end AoE damage when you want and can drop the damage to low tier for more control/debuff. Only your bias that that choice is not worth much makes the set "bad". |
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| The set is simply not bad enough to actively encourage people away from it. It is not old Mace. It is not Barb Swipe. |
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Most of the veteran players that you know about and deal with in global channels. I doubt that is most of the veteran players on your server. Still, it is interesting to note that we both may be subject to groupthink.
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For me, the unique things in DP detract from the overall playability of the set rather than enhancing it. My personal experiences with the set place it above Psi but still below my enjoyable threshold. All other primaries are in my enjoyable category. (Elec is the one directly above DP)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
If there was one blaster primary that would be "the old mace" it would be DP.
My DP/Elec is currently sloshing away in the low 20's. I still play it, not because it feels powerful, but because my concept of the character keeps me entertained. I'll level him, just not very fast.
-Largo
Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian
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Yeah I love the animation too.
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Originally Posted by Khiva
That animation is awesome, and you're both terrible people for saying otherwise. Terrible.
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I'll never make a dual pistols character with these animations, purely because of how crazy they are. I want to make someone who fires a couple guns, not someone who took up a form of martial arts only to make his firing ability look fancy.
However, I don't want the animations replaced. I love variety. I would just like alternate animation choices for those of us who don't want to do crazy flips and show off maneuvers just to make firing a couple pistols look pleasing to the eye.
Im sure i'll be put over a fire and burned like a witch in saying I dont like dp at all. But if I had to say what was the worse animation I would agree with piercing bullets, as said....throwing your guns in the air? wtf....why am i doing this....*respec*
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Part of the fun is the suspension of belief that "most" of the power sets in the game could actually be done in the real world given the right circumstances. All powers beyond the tier 2 power in DP are outside the realm of that. I find that immersion breaking in a game I play at least partly for the immersion.
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I like most of the Gun Fu animations for Dual Pistols. But really, throwing your guns up in the air looks dumb. Especially when a melee enemy is bearing down on you. I don't see how it would make your shots any more 'piercing' either.