Speed Boost? Yes/No

There's a thread called "What can other Secondaries do better than Shield Defense" in the Scrapper forum, where Castle and many others mention that SC is over performing, and Castle deducts that this is because of a broken modifier in the AT value or some such. At any rate, it is going to be nerfed.

So your answer is "no, I don't have anything to support my statement...

You were merely remarking that Shield Charge is currently overpowered and added in that second part without considering its basis in reality, fact, or truth. When you said "...and Fire/Kin totally pwnz it, yo" you were making some kind of joke, speaking in hyperbole, or simply talking out of your booty. Do I understand that correctly?

This boost is largely well...ill-informed (I wasnted to use a different word but decided this sounded nicer).

Now, I'm not saying, every KIN should take SB. I have never kicked a KIN for not having SB. And never told the KIN with SB to keep everyone SBed 24/7.

In fact, I've told KINs that if they didnt want to SB so many they could skip over my toon for the most part. Why? Because I usually have the END REC to not need it, in my build, and the +RCH isn't helping my DPS anyways.

It would allow my RAD to AM everyone more often, or my Dark Miasma to use Howling Twilight & Tar Patch more often. But usually my attack strings are pretty solid (though not always) without it.

Now after all that is said. If you have no END Problems, on any of your toons in a long drawn out fight, you're either IOed out or so OVER SLOTTED in ENDRED, your damage is crippled or your accuracy.

Unless you just mean your KIN has no end issues, which then...DUH! Or you only make characters with EXTRA +END powers. And then again, DUH! Not all combos have that ability.

I disagree and the following is true. FS is actually the overrated Kin power, not SB.

There's nothing to get really, it's a self created justification for not taking an extremely powerful, highly sought after buff.

Any attitude you are perceiving is your own. Perhaps if you could stop foaming at the mouth for a second you'd realize I'm not in the same fiery discussion you are. I do enjoy how you can't apparently discuss this without advocates of SB getting all emotional.

I wouldn't party with you because you want me to SB, and I do not want to SB. We have a conflict of interest. I don't see a reason why we should be forced to play together when you expect something I do not think is important.

*Edit* - That said, I do get rather mean towards you as we go on. I guess your 'charm' got to me. I don't, however, feel badly for it.

You seem to be inferring that not having SB is akin to only having Brawl. It is not. It is not even a matter that SB is drastically reducing performance somehow. I don't even know where to begin arguing at this with because it seems to be such a random comment to be making. Perhaps I'm having difficulty understanding you through all the you that you present, but I'm afraid I'm going to need elaboration on what idea you are trying to put forth with this comment.

Yet, I have to insist that you did. Do you call everyone who disagrees with you a troll? I'm sure that must make it much easier on you. Heaven forbid you have to exercise thought outside of what you perceive to be truth.

There are plenty of points as to why I wouldn't pick SB, and I don't care to list them *again*. If you don't agree with them that's one thing, but don't pretend they just aren't there.



Perfect is your own adjective. I've never argued for having a perfect team. I'm actually okay with a sucky team, which I've said already.

I doubt I'd even include myself on a perfect team, as I don't really enjoy playing AT combination's I have to constantly fear will be nerfed.


I don't think people enjoy it when you keep calling them "commoners", or insinuating that people who are not of royal descent are somehow lesser beings.

If you don't know how to use FS that is your own failing, but don't assume everyone is is bad at this game as you are. Also, stop assuming that I will only play with "perfect" people as well, as it is never something I have stated. I prefer to play with people who have the ability to make a logical build and are at least somewhat competent at what they are doing. Call me crazy, but when we aren't all dying every other step my enjoyability seems to rise much more quickly.

Furthermore, I have to question the hypocrisy of calling me an elitist when so many others flat out refuse to team with someone who doesn't have SB.

I don't believe I said it would fully drain an enemy. However, yes, it can and commonly will bottom out the endurance on many enemies without any sort of resistance to it after some slotting. Most powers need slotting to be effective, though I'm sure you knew that, given the intelligence you've displayed thus far.

How in the hell are you reading what I said in that way? Transference will solve END problems, therefore arguing that SB is for endurance is irrelevant. The 50% recharge is not necessary because Fulcrum Shift buffs things to a value so high as to make it redundant. That is the whole ****ing premise of my argument, how the hell did you **** up comprehending that? I've only said it like, five times now.

So it's okay when you want perfection, but not okay when you think I do. Got it.



Why are you jumping two lines? Was I jumping two lines? I don't think you jumped any lines, but you might have been jumping when I wasn't looking, so I don't know.


You're the only one that keeps giving us titles. If you think I'm awesome, that's fine, I'm not about to stop you from spreading that word around, but I never claimed as such. You're the one who thinks your a commoner as well; I simply think you're annoying and probably don't need to to display such a retarded level of anger about this discussion. But alas, I've already been insulting you back for awhile now, so I suppose I don't really have a right to be calling you childish.

I ditched it so that I could improve my build with a power I found more useful. I have a habit of not taking powers I don't feel necessary in favor of powers that will help improve my character; I'm crazy like that.


When did we establish that? Or did you just establish than and then assumed I had to agree with your establishment?

What is with you and dirty people? Don't read more than is there, I don't like playing with people who demand I SB them because they do not think they can function without it. I don't like playing with people who need the h43l0rz either. If you enjoy that sort of thing, good or you, but don't assume I have too.

Your admiration for me is flattering.

I dont' really like tea though. I so totally get together with my friends and make fun of stupid people though, you are right on about that.


I wasn't aware Travel Suppression was in effect for the entirety of the mission until it's completion. I've always been able to use my travel power shortly after finishing combat, but apparently I've been working outside some common rule. My mistake.


Nope. That was a lie. I'm not going to do that either, I'm probably just going to leave them there and laugh heartily while I call up my friends and having a rousing game of telephone grab *** while I check over my stock market.


So I guess Granites have finally moved up in class and away from the dirty commoner status oppressive overlord like myself have kept them in for so long. Well, we're not about to have this! ASSEMBLE THE KINGDOM!


EGAD! THE KIN ARE RISING UP AS WELL!? HAS OUR GOD ABANDONED US COMPLETELY? WHAT OF OUR ROYALTY, WHAT OF OUR BIRTH RIGHTS!?

I hope the SB'd people never run faster than you jump, or you have to go around a corner or something, less your narrow example be disproved. Oh wait.


Of course, but why wouldn't I be giving them Fulcrum Shift? It's very easy to make permanent.

Maybe that wasn't so obvious for you, but I was exaggerating. Something similiar to this does happen, however. Especially in caves.


I fail to see where I stated that. In fact, I purposefully used words like "almost" and "usually" to account for some human margin of error.

I'm starting to see a trend with you too, but I'm afraid I'm not an adlib. You can't just pretend I said something and then argue against it.


I've never said it did.

*scratches forehead*

Are you implying that you can only use FS once per mission? Or Transference? Fulcrum Shift, at a 99% recharge value comes back to us in 30.1s and has a duration of 45s. Barring the occasional miss when people do not know to stay grouped together the effect will be permanent.

Why do I get the feeling the only power you HAVE on your Kin is SB?

I was using IO values. You'll notice my value is .99 as opposed to .95. The math is not incorrect. I shouldn't have rounded off the .1s and I should have mentioned I wasn't taking into consideration animation times. You're right though, Fortitude sucks even more than my example could have illustrated, and the benefit it generates from speed boost can be replicated rather easily with a much lower amount of recharge. It's still not going to 'effect everyone once SB is applied', as I think The Coming Storm was stating.

Well I'm glad it's okay when you do it.

To begin with, you are already assuming a 99% enhancement value (meaning you've suddenly adopted IO's, which you apparently had a problem with when I did it, but never mind that, I'm getting kind of used to this level of hypocrisy), the actual power takes 300s to recharge and is reduced to 150s after the application. So, no, SB didn't "singhandedly" do anything.

Furthermore, you didn't say anything I didn't either. I too mention that we now only have 30s of downtime. I even mentioned that I enjoyed that aspect. I'm not sure why you're acting like I omitted this data or something.

Again, you aren't pointing out anything new to me or anyone else. Once again, I've already mentioned that I think that's a good improvement. I purposefully made a distinction between long recharge powers vs short, stating that SB has very little effect on short recharge abilities, and a moderate effect upon long.

I then go on to mention that, in light of this, I still do not think SB is necessary because Fulcrum Shift is so stupidly powerful what with it's massive five billion percent recharge reduction rate and all.



I'm sorry, is moving onto another example scattering your widdle brain? I'll try to ease you in next time.

Dis-proven by who, exactly? As far as I know, SB isn't necessary outside your own perception of necessary was my argument. That I continue to support that argument shouldn't really come as a shock to you. I'm not sure what you're stating, yet again.

Also "+recharge translates to damage" is, in fact, an identical statement towards "recharge = damage". You would need to add onto the first statement "but can also help make utility powers more effective as well" to get anything slightly differing from the first.

Not that I ever said or implied that I thought recharge = damage. In fact, my argument could be more accurately summarized as "200-250% damage > 50% recharge + a head ache"

The amount of people who don't seem to understand the basic function of time is astounding. Let's review, once a ****-gain. The MAXIMUM amount of time it takes to SB an entire team, not including yourself obviously and not factoring in arcanatime is, and will always be 19 seconds. Unless you add recharge to yourself, you will not escape this inevitable truth.

No where have I ever stated that you cannot be doing SOMETHING ELSE with the 2 second (less with arcanatime) window you have between SB recycling. You WILL however, have to stop doing SOMETHING in order to use SB.

An insult doesn't work if you have to PRETEND I said something so that you can insult it. That the only other person who doesn't seem to get that concept is THE COMING STORM should indicate some kind of major failing on your part. It's THE COMING STORM, for heaven's sake.


Dont' forget they only have brawl *thumbs up*.

I'm done talking to you specifically, much as I am no longer addressing TCS. If there is anyone else who would like to discuss the complexities of Speed Boost without resorting to becoming an angry, frothing idiot to do so, I would be grateful to have an actual discussion with them.

This is quoted for emphasis.
Both Strato_Nexus and Deus_Otiosus have made their points very eloquently. There is not much to add myself other than saying a "Good" Kin can use Fulcrum, Transference AND Speed Boost on an 8-man team and still have time to throw out some Damage attacks.

So, my question is this; If you are playing a "support" role and you have the choice of making everyone around you "better in many ways" OR.... "better in even more ways", why would you choose to be less capable?

Seriously, I hate casting SB 7 times every 2 minutes. I wish it was a 4 min buff like Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield. But, do I cast it on all my team-mates anyway ? Of Course I do. It makes them better at what they do. Thats the choice I made when I created a "buffing" character. To deliberately choose to spend my time on a team watching over my allies, both proactively and reactively, and keeping them standing even against the most outrageous odds.

I think its important as a player to understand which role on a team you really "fit". In the last 10 years I have been in a dozen MMO style games and learned a long, long, time ago that I prefer the person standing in the back; buffing, healing, controlling etc...
The OP needs to learn which role is the best for them, and perhaps Kinetics is not the right choice. But thats just my opinion.

peace

First comment; My statement is "There's information, go find it."

You want me to reproduce the entire thread into this one for you? 'Cause I'm not going to do that. I will give you a link though.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219592

It's 32 pages long, and gets rather dramatic, but there you go.


"Fire/Kin totally pwnz yo" is meant as a joke. Perhaps I'm not very good at humor, but I get the feeling it's lost to this thread anyway. I don't even have a Fire/Kin, or at least not the one you're thinking of.

*Edit* - All the loving anger in this thread is obviously starting to make me grumpy. As such, I'm going to be ignoring it. I've more or less stated everything I care too anyway, and whoever reading is welcome to agree, disagree, or disagree while quoting every other paragraph I put forth. Perhaps the next time this subject comes up we can talk about it without hurling fire at each other, but until then I'm going to go do something relaxing.

In short; /ragequit

A great deal.
Most.
More than half.
A bunch.
Lots.
Many.
Plenty.
Multitudes.

SB lasts shorter than other buffs because it animates much quicker.

I'd say SB is really at it's most helpful if the following conditions are met:

1.) Team mate has extremely long cool down powers which help the team a lot
2.) Team mate is constantly running out of endurance
3.) Team mate is having trouble keeping up with everyone else

I'd be one thing if the +speed part wasn't so huge. But it is. The +speed can easily mess someone up. Especially if they didn't expect it. I got use to having a run speed of 36 mph or so without any toggles on, so I can handle it anymore. It's the +recharge and +recovery that make it useful. But not everyone will need those. Especially someone who's already IO'ed out their build to the point where they have insane amounts of +recharge, and managed to perma hasten. Nor does everyone need +recovery.

So really, while it's a useful buff... It's by no means as vital as some make it out to be.