Time for a copy paste response from our very own, Memphis_Bill!!
Quote:
|
Why server consolidation is not a good idea. Welcome to the forum. You have posted one of the oft repeated suggestions, "Consolidate the servers." Disclaimer Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively. The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea. Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve. If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as hummor, not put downs. TL,DR section. First, my stock answer, one which I stand by and repeat with all due fervor. HELL NO. Searching effectively 1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum. 2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas." 3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed: +server -pvp -"re: " This will search for anything with "Server" in the title, including Servers, Combine Servers, Consolidate Servers, and The Server At Mcdonalds Is Rude. it will eliminate "PVP," so you won't see PVP server requests, and the -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.) 4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body. 5. Leave Username Search blank. 6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months. 7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit." As I try this now, (12/3/08,) we have: Consolidate Server Server Stats RSS Feed $server modifier ofr chat Fix the forum server Earlyissue server Merging low population server Combine slow server Server status Global chat on the Character and Server Screens Rated M server Add Ponies, Nerf Vills, merge Servers, PistolMelee Server Visiting Display Central Time on Server Status Page Ignoring the smartalec reply, that's three full discussions about this topic. You should have read one of them if (inevitably) something similar comes up in your search. Now, on to the topic at hand.... Why server consolidation is not a good idea. 1. Just because YOU like living in New York City doesn't mean I can't like Kansas. Yay, you love having huge lag spikes as you get near the black market/wentworths and a busy broadcast. Congrats. Enjoy Freedom. Some of us - many of which you will get replies from with this subject - like *low population* servers. If we *wanted* to be on Freedom, we'd *be* on Freedom. I have characters on Freedom. I rarely play them (and actually moved a character OFF of Freedom to finish leveling it to 50) because *I DON'T LIKE FREEDOM.* I dislike the banality of broadcast, the high percentage of *horrid* teams I've come across there, the lag around any gathering point- and I've got a decent connection and system. For much the same reason, I typically startin Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park - I don't *want* to log in to a costume contest with several 50s spamming powers and nonsense arguments in broadcast. Some of us *like* nice, quiet servers. 2, Kansas, part 2. In addition, servers have their own personalities. No, I don't mean that literally, there's no AI to worry about if you start hearing "Daisy, Daisy" over your speakers or headset. Freedom's a crowded mess. Virtue is the RP server. Pinnacle is the "Drunk" server. Others have specific communities, such as those from Australia/NZ, Europe, etc. 3. "I only saw one other person. World of Conancraft has eleventy billion!" So what? We don't run around camping spawn points in this game. People are in missions. People are spread across many zones. Search on a map or do a /whoall and you'll miss those in missions, as well as those who are, for whatever reason, on /hide. Your "search" there didn't give you a full picture, not in the least. I understand the "feel" of things being "not very populated," but take a good look around when you're in game. Typically, you don't really have a lot of visibility. Standing in steel canyon, there could be multiple, full 8 person groups surrounding you, and it's likely you'd never see them. We have buildings, walls, architecture, trees and more limiting our visibility. Yes, it can make you feel more alone... but that's rarely the case. Add to that that the population is spread between many, MANY zones, most quite large, and among two sides... well... 4. "I put up my LFT flag and nothing happened!" Learn to search. Don't just wait. Form a team yourself. 5. "I AM SPARTACUS!" No, not any more. Remember logging in and seeing all those slots? Everyone has those - some buy more than the base 12, you get an extra one each year, you could have a total of 36 on any server. Everyone does. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Now merge servers. Suddenly, CoolBlasterDude from server 1 is getting merged with CoolBlasterDude from Server 2. Who gets to keep their name? Nobody has been able to answer this with any degree of satisfaction. Add a number? But I am NOT CoolBlasterGuy1. And what if the name's too long? Does the older character keep it? What if they're not as active? People are *VERY* attached to their names. They are, quite obviously, part of their character. 6. "This Is SPARTA!" Sorry, Sparta exists already. You are GenericSG 8734 287 9798. What else has a name? Supergroups. And I can *guarandamntee* that the same name is in use on multiple servers. Sometimes it's 'branches' of the same SG, sometimes it's coincidence. But with *everything* involved in an SG - from its identity and reputation on the server, to everything stored in the database about what it owns, what its base is like and such, this would be a disaster in the making. And no, auto merging them when the servers merge, even if they have room to, is not an option. This, of course, assumes that they *CAN* move supergroups as a unit. More than likely, it'd just be a mass character move, with bases, prestige, anything stored in bases and all SG affiliations just gone forever. 7. "I am... where'd Spartacus go?" Remember all those slots? Well, you start with 1/3 of the available ones. You can buy up to 36 total (24 on top of the ones you get initially.) Now, what do you suppose would happen if you merged two servers, and someone has, say, 20 characters on each? Not unusual. In fact, before those extra slots, I had *filled up* several servers. Do those characters just disappear? Do they move? Free move to another server sounds great, right... well, except you now kick them from their supergroup, remove them from their friends lists and more. This makes for angry and unhappy customers. Or rather, ex customers. 8. I will play where I damn well want to. And you can too. And that should be blunt enough. If I want a crowded server, I'll go to Freedom. If I want an RP server, I'll go to Virtue. I do NOT want to be shoved onto another server I *don't* like. If I wanted to go there, *I'd be there.* If the server you're on isn't "busy" enough for you, you have two options that won't bother anyone else. (A) If it's low enough, reroll. You have a ton of character slots for a reason. (B) If you don't want to reroll, server transfers are available, and relatively cheap. They also finish fast - you should be up and running and being spammed to join someone's SG on the new server in a few minutes, in most instances. So YOU can go to the server of YOUR choice without screwing ME over. 9. "It'll free up server hardware for Freedom!" No, no it won't. Freedom, because of the load it tends to have, already has more resources dedicated to it than other servers. And ALL of the servers have been upgraded multiple times. The servers are not allocated exactly the same. The servers that handle less of a load have less dedicated to them. So this argument doesn't fly. 10. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Last but not least (at least until better points come along to be added,) server consolidation is widely viewed in the industry as an MMO going on life support. No, we don't have WoWs numbers (and you should actually pay attention to when and how they got those.) They're an abberation in the MMO industry. COH has had and does have a very successful, sustainable population even at its lowest points, so there's no economic need to combine anything. The flip side of that, of course, has been suggested above - you crowd people together, break up their SGs and friends lists, cause characters to go missing and poeple definitely *will* quit, both out of annoyance and a sense of "The game is almost dead!" In conclusion.... As stated before, when it comes to server consolidation... HELL NO. |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
I wish I got a new character slot each time this was posted.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
@Dechs
Though i disagree with a lot of what you pasted at least you've given the subject some thought.
SG: StormRazors
Justice:
BlueClaw Lvl 50 Clw/Invul
ArcBlade Lvl 49 Invul/Axe
StormLight Lvl 29 Peacebringer
Orin Ravenblade Lvl 22 BS/Invul
IGNORE THE WOLF BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!
Quote:
At least we get a little snack...|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I wish I got a new character slot each time this was posted.
|
There being no players on your server is a perception issue.
Quote:
I could get behind this. Especially if we could take our slots above 36/server.
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I wish I got a new character slot each time this was posted.
|
Comic and Hero/Villain Culture
Saturday January 29th, 2005 (12:37 PM) ~ Monday August 9th, 2010
Those Who Lived It Will Remember Long after your Ban Hammer Crumbles and the servers flicker dead.
We Will Remember This One Moment In Time! ~ Shadow Ravenwolf
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlueClaw
@Dechs
Though i disagree with a lot of what you pasted at least you've given the subject some thought. |
It's actually Memphis Bill's copy/paste.
It is a horrible idea, and will remain so until the game's overall population dwindles enough to make it a reasonable decision.
As it stands, there are enough people on every single server to justify keeping them all active.
Would YOU start playing a game if you saw on a news release that it just closed down half it's servers? I wouldn't. I see that and I figure the game is in trouble and won't be around much longer, meaning I would be wasting my money buying it. Anyone looking at it from the outside would likely think much the same thing.
As far as finding teams is concerned:
I play on Pinnacle, which is one of the least populated servers, and I have zero issue finding a team when I want one. The copy/paste already covered it, but I'll repeat it here: Standing around and spamming broadcast with LFT messages is the WORST way to find a team in the game. Find your server's global channels and it will be a lot easier.
Also, I have hardware issues which legitimately and physically prevent me from playing on higher population servers. If every server were as populated as Freedom and Virtue I would literally be unable to play the game at all due to crippling lag issues.
And don't say "buy a new computer". I have a mortgage, 2 car payments, and a slew of other bills I have to pay each month. I'm lucky I can afford $15 to keep my subscription active, so buying a new computer just to be able to play a video game is NOT an option.
A server merge would actually LOWER the population, as people in my situation find themselves not able to even log on because zone activity is just overwhelming their computer's processor.
There are WAY more legitimate reasons against a server merge than there are in favor of it. Until that balance changes, it isn't going to happen.
If I recall correctly, a dev said that there are no plans to merge servers. And it was said not all that long ago.
Besides, merging servers right before the biggest addition to the game since City of Villains would be a colossally stupid move on the dev team's part, for all of the aforementioned reasons.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlueClaw
@Dechs
Though i disagree with a lot of what you pasted at least you've given the subject some thought. |
I didn't give the subject any thought because you brought it up. I can't take credit for what I pasted. Memphis_Bill is the original creator of that post back in '08.
Don't think for a moment that you deserve the time it took to create that. You are not unique. You are not clever. You have not given the subject any thought.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
I want to add something but I cannot quite articulate what I want to add other than it has something to do with the current population levels and seeing a lot of old posters returning to the forums and that perhaps if they hadn't left they wouldn't have created what is a problem for themselves.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I didn't give the subject any thought because you brought it up. I can't take credit for what I pasted. Memphis_Bill is the original creator of that post back in '08.
Don't think for a moment that you deserve the time it took to create that. You are not unique. You are not clever. You have not given the subject any thought. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Just say no
Just say no
Just say no
"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho
Quote:
I think I know what you're getting at.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I want to add something but I cannot quite articulate what I want to add other than it has something to do with the current population levels and seeing a lot of old posters returning to the forums and that perhaps if they hadn't left they wouldn't have created what is a problem for themselves.
|
When these people left, the only way to get on a team actually was broadcasting LFT and hopping from zone to zone. Even then, there were some people who intelligently used the search and /tell features, but now there's so much more.
There also used to be a lot more street sweeping and more people standing out in the open.
Low server population is a perception issue. Not finding a team is a personal issue.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Welcome back!
Justice, Protector and Champion crashed last night, hard (and the night before that). I'm pretty sure when they finally came back up very few people bothered to log back in, especially Justice folks. Justice was at 2nd last in server load after being rezzed, when it normally sits at 3rd (4th or lower occasionally) spot.
If you've been gone for an extended period, almost all the action on Justice tends to happen on the global channels. Justice United and JFA2010 are the popular ones to find teams etc.
Quote:
We have free trials.|
Originally Posted by BlueClaw
I know it easy for me to say Stuff like NCSoft need to advertise on TV more, or maybe consider a free to play scheme to bring in new players but i know those cost money.
|
Quote:
| A server merge on the other hand should be pretty cheap and though that in itself won't bring in new players at least it would help preserve the players base. It would buy us time to enjoy this game and NCSoft time to implement new strategies to increase the gaming population. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
why do people think this is a good idea?
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Quote:
Because they value their lazy convience over the needs of those who would then be inconvienced by it.
|
Originally Posted by PC_guy
why do people think this is a good idea?
|
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlueClaw
I recently returned to coh after year long absence and I'll tell you what, it was very saddening. Servers like Justice and others are damn ghost towns. Zones like Talos and PI have as much traffic as Eden, and that's not saying much considering no one hangs out in Eden.
I was wondering if DEVs have given any thought to merging some of the servers together to boost the in game population. As an older player i don't mind a little soloing, nor am i overly attached to anyone server. But i have to wonder how NC soft expects this game to bounce back if new players are logging in to near empty zones. It was bad enough when COV went live and half the COH in zone population disappeared. If a new player can't find people to team with there's a good chance they'll bounce to some other game. They may never give COH another chance and may slander this great game to their friends. I know it easy for me to say Stuff like NCSoft need to advertise on TV more, or maybe consider a free to play scheme to bring in new players but i know those cost money. A server merge on the other hand should be pretty cheap and though that in itself won't bring in new players at least it would help preserve the players base. It would buy us time to enjoy this game and NCSoft time to implement new strategies to increase the gaming population. |
This may be difficult to believe given the response you have received, but City of Heroes has one of the friendliest and most supportive communities of any MMO on the market (if not THE friendliest and most supportive). You are getting a lot of snark in response to your post, and I feel I should explain why so that it doesn't drive you away.
This suggestion is made often by new players who come from other MMOs and returning players who have been away for a while (probably playing other MMOs, which tends to color their perception of their previous City of Heroes experience), who don't understand how City of Heroes has evolved.
City of Heroes is a heavily instanced game. More than 90% of the game happens in private instances. When you see people just hanging around, it is usually because they are socializing or recruiting for teams and supergroups. The folks who are actually doing missions will only be seen for the minute or two it takes to cross the zone to get to their next mission door, and then they are off the streets again.
A few years ago, the best way to earn xp was to street sweep. Therefore, you saw tons of heroes out on the streets clearing mobs in circuits around the zones. The Devs noticed that lots of people were completely ignoring the missions that they spent much time creating. To encourage people to experience more of the game than just the streets, they took some actions; they introduced half debt if you died during an instanced mission, they increased the xp awards for instanced missions, they increased (greatly) the xp rewards for completing a story arc, they started awarding Reward Merits for completing story arcs, and they have greatly increased the quality of the writing in the stories from the first batch of arcs. All of this has taken many heroes off the streets and into the instanced missions.
This means that the "Lvl 18 Healer LFT" that used to work in broadcast isn't so effective any more. If you want on a team, you need to take some initiative and learn how to use your global channels (which probably didn't exist or were just introduced before you left) and the team search functions. You can't be afraid to form your own teams, and with supersidekicking, you don't need to play "level Tetris" to make sure you have enough mentors for any lower level recruits. In fact, you don't have to worry about exemping down either, as you now earn experience while exemped. Teaming is easier than it has ever been, provided you put forth a little bit of effort (join a Global Channel if you don't want to lead, or learn how to use Team Search if you aren't afraid of the star).
The reason you got a lot of snark was because you stepped in, looked around for a few minutes, and assumed that something was drastically wrong, and then provided a terrible solution for a problem that doesn't really exist. If you had posted something like this instead:
"Hey, I've been away from the game for a few years, and it seems like it is a lot harder to get on a team now. Does anyone else feel this way, or is it just me? Does anyone have any advice on how to get on teams more consistently? BTW, I'm on Justice server."
You would have been deluged with helpful advice on how to use the search function in game, as well as the names of the Global Channels for Justice Server. You went about it in a negative way, therefore you got negative responses.
Here's hoping that now you know why the response was so negative that you decide to stick around.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Quote:
I think there's also the mis-perception [usually caused by games that rely on non-instanced areas, heavy spawn-camping, kill-stealing, etc], that unless there's a couple of hundred people visible at all times, getting in each other's way, and generally clogging up the area that the game must be "dead".
|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Because they value their lazy convience over the needs of those who would then be inconvienced by it.
|
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
Quote:
Sheesh. Has it been that long? Guess I need to tweak the search instructions - those were for the old forums.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I didn't give the subject any thought because you brought it up. I can't take credit for what I pasted. Memphis_Bill is the original creator of that post back in '08.
|
Also
Quote:
| I think there's also the mis-perception [usually caused by games that rely on non-instanced areas, heavy spawn-camping, kill-stealing, etc], that unless there's a couple of hundred people visible at all times, getting in each other's way, and generally clogging up the area that the game must be "dead". |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlueClaw
I recently returned to coh after year long absence and I'll tell you what, it was very saddening. Servers like Justice and others are damn ghost towns. Zones like Talos and PI have as much traffic as Eden, and that's not saying much considering no one hangs out in Eden.
|
Also, can't get a team?
Learn how to form your OWN damn team, and you'll never be teamless!
There has been an awful lot of snark near the top of this thread.
And just because WE have seen the thread a hundred times doesn't mean the OP has seen the thread a hundred times.
One major effect that hasn't been mentioned: There was a month or two where people could transfer characters between servers for free.
I know at least one person who picked up stakes and moved all their characters from Infinity to Freedom to get a larger population. I suspect a significant number of people moved to Freedom or Virtue to get the "mass of people" experience they wanted.
Since you don't have that option: what do you do? Here's my Very Standard Advice.
1) Find the appropriate global channels. I don't know what they are for your server, but they're out there. That's a good place to find a lot of experienced players at once.
2) Rebuild your Friends list. Tell yourself you're going to join five crappy PUGs. If you find any players that are any good,/friend or /gfriend them. Hopefully THEY will remember YOU favorably and you can catch 'em next time they are on, and see if their team is any better.
3) Build your own crappy PUGs. Think of it as auditioning people to be your friend.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
And I do have to point out the flip side of this - there were also people (including myself) who moved characters OFF of Freedom and Virtue to "smaller" servers. Or between them. The transfers didn't just go one way.
|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
One major effect that hasn't been mentioned: There was a month or two where people could transfer characters between servers for free.
I know at least one person who picked up stakes and moved all their characters from Infinity to Freedom to get a larger population. I suspect a significant number of people moved to Freedom or Virtue to get the "mass of people" experience they wanted. |
Quote:
And then there are the weirdos like me.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And I do have to point out the flip side of this - there were also people (including myself) who moved characters OFF of Freedom and Virtue to "smaller" servers. Or between them. The transfers didn't just go one way.
|
I made a dozen server transfers during that time, and wound up with exactly the same number of characters on each server that I had before.
All but two of those transfers were to force a rename on characters who costumes and concepts I loved, but I couldn't stand the names any more. I should have done one more, I still have a name that doesn't roll off the tongue very well, but I hadn't played the character much before the free transfer offer ended. Now that I have played him more, the name is starting to bother me.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Just because people keep saying something doesn't mean it's true. Even if you do know how to use the search function, you still run a real risk of only finding 30 people within 10 levels of yourself and 75% of them having LFG messages saying they only do trials and TFs (or bizarrely telling you they will purposefully get you killed if allowed on your team).
When trying to tell someone why I like this game more than most MMOs, I give an example of a random Wednesday afternoon from several years ago, where we were able to put together a successful TF pick up group with 6 strangers who had never met before or since - something I have not seen in any other game. But it's also not something I see in the game now.
Now, I don't know whether to blame any changes on lower population or simply on the effect IO sets and the new difficulty settings have had on the ability to solo content, but to say that it's not more difficult to find groups now than it used to be seems more based on wishful thinking than on anything resembling reality.
I recently returned to coh after year long absence and I'll tell you what, it was very saddening. Servers like Justice and others are damn ghost towns. Zones like Talos and PI have as much traffic as Eden, and that's not saying much considering no one hangs out in Eden.
I was wondering if DEVs have given any thought to merging some of the servers together to boost the in game population. As an older player i don't mind a little soloing, nor am i overly attached to anyone server. But i have to wonder how NC soft expects this game to bounce back if new players are logging in to near empty zones. It was bad enough when COV went live and half the COH in zone population disappeared. If a new player can't find people to team with there's a good chance they'll bounce to some other game. They may never give COH another chance and may slander this great game to their friends.
I know it easy for me to say Stuff like NCSoft need to advertise on TV more, or maybe consider a free to play scheme to bring in new players but i know those cost money. A server merge on the other hand should be pretty cheap and though that in itself won't bring in new players at least it would help preserve the players base. It would buy us time to enjoy this game and NCSoft time to implement new strategies to increase the gaming population.
SG: StormRazors
Justice:
BlueClaw Lvl 50 Clw/Invul
ArcBlade Lvl 49 Invul/Axe
StormLight Lvl 29 Peacebringer
Orin Ravenblade Lvl 22 BS/Invul
IGNORE THE WOLF BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!