Thought exercise - GR Crashing the BM
By
Angelwing,
Posted on: 2010-04-25 19:32 in The Market and Inventions
BTW everyone Positron's plan is out in the open in the EU Q&A
Positron: We are looking at the problems in the markets very carefully and want a good, working, feasable, not exploitive, not still broken somewhere, fun, easy to understand, logical, solution.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Funny, a market merge would satisfy all those requirements, except maybe feasible (depending on how much work it would entail).
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
BTW everyone Positron's plan is out in the open in the EU Q&A
Positron: We are looking at the problems in the markets very carefully and want a good, working, feasable, not exploitive, not still broken somewhere, fun, easy to understand, logical, solution. |
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Hmm... is it just me or does anyone else not hear a "Plan" in that sentence?
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
BTW everyone Positron's plan is out in the open in the EU Q&A
Positron: We are looking at the problems in the markets very carefully and want a good, working, feasable, not exploitive, not still broken somewhere, fun, easy to understand, logical, solution. |
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Oh crap.. That sounds even worse than I thought. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
BTW everyone Positron's plan is out in the open in the EU Q&A
Positron: We are looking at the problems in the markets very carefully and want a good, working, feasable, not exploitive, not still broken somewhere, fun, easy to understand, logical, solution. |
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Perhaps they are in the planning to plan stage..
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Originally Posted by Heartbreaker
Hmm... is it just me or does anyone else not hear a "Plan" in that sentence?
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It would take less work than any other possible solution barring "no solution". It's just two databases. Such things are easily merged.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
Funny, a market merge would satisfy all those requirements, except maybe feasible (depending on how much work it would entail).
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Black Markets would continue to take Infamy, Wentworth's would continue to take Influence. That is how they are already coded, so that's zero work.
It's perplexing that they don't consider this the best solution already.
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Because they have stated they feel the cash on hand imbalance between blueside and redside would allow blueside to exploit redside. That's why. As has been mentioned again and again, redside would just sell until cash balanced out, but I guess they don't see it happening.
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Originally Posted by DarknessEternal
It would take less work than any other possible solution barring "no solution". It's just two databases. Such things are easily merged.
Black Markets would continue to take Infamy, Wentworth's would continue to take Influence. That is how they are already coded, so that's zero work. It's perplexing that they don't consider this the best solution already. |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
This again?
It's not like it is unexpected - nor should my reply.
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There is a price to pay for being evil.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Just that, discuss....
What other aspects of GR and the lengthy cool down for side switching could occur? 1) The BM is all ready a comparative dust bowl. |
These posts are always about the "evil" side getting shafted. So here we go again.
Once more to explain why evil shouldn't benefit from the hard work of heroes.
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| 2) You won't be able to take your inf over to the robust side so once there you'll have to marketeer to earn influence or have one of your other toons email it too you. |
By "robust side" you mean to take away the fact that Influence is for Heroes. It isn't Red and Blue. It's Hero and Villain. Good and Evil.
Yes, it pays to be "good". At least here in our comicbook game world.
I'm not sure why there is any difficulty involved with e-mailing Influence to a character that has decided to join the heroes and the "strait and narrow path". You can send your self e-mail and if you have a Hero they can open up an e-mail with Influence in it. No problem there.
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| 3) Once you are in the robust market area what is the real draw to returning to the other side? |
There are plenty of other games without Good and Evil as definite alighments. If it is really so hard for you to deal with the fact that this game is about Good and Evil (and soon a gray area separate from the two) then maybe one of those other games would be more desirable for you.
The "draw" to return to the "path of darkness" is to be a villain. I would figure that is why some players are playing villains rather than playing heroes. Their incentive would be to return to playing a "dastardly evil" character rather than a "goody-two-shoes" hero.
I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm being perfectly serious.
Super hero comics are NOT about neutrality. Sometimes villains switch sides and sometimes heroes "go rogue", but you can almost always tell when it is intended to for a character to be Good or Evil at any given point - that is pretty much the basis of the comic book hero genre.
I really don't know why you expect villains to be rewarded for work done by heroes in a comic book super hero game - and that is what anyone that wants to see the markets merged - or implying that they should be - is asking for.
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With all this in mind, what is the likelyhood that GR could cause a complete crash of the Black Market? If this is the case, what are the chances that the devs may actually step in and fix or merge the markets? |
It isn't even clear if you can get villain contacts to run missions in the Isles if you are a hero going rogue. If you are going Rogue and running "evil" missions - I'm assuming you won't be earning Infamy until you flip that corner and become a villain; I'm assuming that you won't earn Influence for running "evil" missions either if you are still a hero.
I certainly hope the DEVs just leave it alone. That would be the reasonable thing to do in this genre. Yes, this is a Superhero Genre game. If you don't like the polarity then find a game where there the sides really are only distinguished by the color of uniform that they wear - aka "Red and Blue" (though most of those games the side that you are on is Blue and the enemy is always red - or, at least, that has been my experience)
Those that pick the path of Evil deserve their just rewards - which by your guesses will be a big pile of nothing! Yeah! The Villains loose. Boo villains! Boo!
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The most market tear question worthy of all is, would it be worth our effort to attempt to exploit the potential of crashing the BM to force a needed repair? Thoughts? Comments? |
The "repair" isn't needed.
Go for it. Crash the villain markets and soak up all the glory of your villainy.
Evil is as evil does. And you deserve what you get if you relieve yourself in your own swimming pool.
Face it. You are villains.
Heroes worked to fill the hero market full of stuff.
If the villains want a market full of more stuff then they have to work for it.
Why should evil get rewarded for the things that Heroes do?
They shouldn't.
I think we have been over this time and time again.
If it is so bad to be villain, the maybe you should stop being evil and become a hero.
I'm certainly not going to give up trying to be a good person in real life simply because it seems that those that lie, cheat, and steal on various levels seemed to be getting ahead in this world.
I certainly hope I can come to a comic book game and expect to see that the lines are drawn and I can stand tall for my heroic actions and not see my hard work go to the benefits of evil (characters).
Of course, I'm still for stripping characters of all enhancements (and everything else) and starting them back of at "square 1" if they go "darkside" or "finally see the light".
There should be a massive price to pay for switching sides in a game that is THE game about the Superhero Genre.
Don't come crying to me if your Mastermind becomes a Defender when they finally become a hero.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
snip
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It's clear to me that you, the real person behind the keyboard, are a metahuman being. You possess the cranial density of a collapsed star. I imagine you eating food by dropping it into an event horizon. In my mind's eye, I can see a burrito warping into an accretion disk like some culinary halo, finally giving off a burst of x-rays above your head as it achieves relativistic speeds just before vanishing into the infinite abyss that is your inner being.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
There should be a massive price to pay for switching sides in a game that is THE game about the Superhero Genre.
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Then I remember that I am here to point out to you that CoH is attached at the figurative hip to THE game about being a SuperVillain.
Your notion of what that means is not canon. Your notions of what that should cause are neither wise nor reasonable. This is not a book. This is a game. No sane game makers will make a whole, standalone game with the express intention that anyone who plays it shall suffer an inherently inferior experience. You are not a gamemaker. You are not in control. You are wrong.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Is he a troll? Some of his posts are so out there i cant believe that he is actually serious.
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And yet, according to what we've heard, Vigilantes will continue to use WW. So we can look forwards to people taking their vigilante heroes Redside to work on those 1000 Longbow kills for the defeat badge, and then coming back to sell the resulting piles of loot in Wentworths. I'm not quite sure how the highly profitable mass-slaughter of Longbow RPs into heroic influence, but I'm sure someone will think of a work round.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
Face it. You are villains.
Heroes worked to fill the hero market full of stuff. |
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's clear to me that you, the real person behind the keyboard, are a metahuman being. You possess the cranial density of a collapsed star. I imagine you eating food by dropping it into an event horizon. In my mind's eye, I can see a burrito warping into an accretion disk like some culinary halo, finally giving off a burst of x-rays above your head as it achieves relativistic speeds just before vanishing into the infinite abyss that is your inner being.
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Post of the Year?
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
There is a price to pay for being evil.
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It's gonna be so cool when our Real Villains of Paragon SG goes vigilante, farms Longbow and then sells the loot we get for killing good guys on the hero market!
Hope you love SO's, because you'll never be able to buy another recipe of hunk of salvage without the possibility that it was listed by a blackhearted, monstrous villain.
=D
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
I see The_Alt_oholic postin'
cause that's how he's rollin'
Forum troll!
Type it out! Post it up!
Hit Reply! Toss it out!
Forum trolllll!
Trollin' trollin' trollin' ....
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This is a game. You are an idiot.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
This again?
It's not like it is unexpected - nor should my reply. There is a price to pay for being evil. These posts are always about the "evil" side getting shafted. So here we go again. Once more to explain why evil shouldn't benefit from the hard work of heroes. That's Infa not to be confused with Influ. By "robust side" you mean to take away the fact that Influence is for Heroes. It isn't Red and Blue. It's Hero and Villain. Good and Evil. Yes, it pays to be "good". At least here in our comicbook game world. I'm not sure why there is any difficulty involved with e-mailing Influence to a character that has decided to join the heroes and the "strait and narrow path". You can send your self e-mail and if you have a Hero they can open up an e-mail with Influence in it. No problem there. Once again, you try to demean being a hero or a villain. This isn't red and blue. This is Good and Evil. There are plenty of other games without Good and Evil as definite alighments. If it is really so hard for you to deal with the fact that this game is about Good and Evil (and soon a gray area separate from the two) then maybe one of those other games would be more desirable for you. The "draw" to return to the "path of darkness" is to be a villain. I would figure that is why some players are playing villains rather than playing heroes. Their incentive would be to return to playing a "dastardly evil" character rather than a "goody-two-shoes" hero. I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm being perfectly serious. Super hero comics are NOT about neutrality. Sometimes villains switch sides and sometimes heroes "go rogue", but you can almost always tell when it is intended to for a character to be Good or Evil at any given point - that is pretty much the basis of the comic book hero genre. I really don't know why you expect villains to be rewarded for work done by heroes in a comic book super hero game - and that is what anyone that wants to see the markets merged - or implying that they should be - is asking for. If the villain side turns into a waste lands, then maybe that is for the best. It isn't even clear if you can get villain contacts to run missions in the Isles if you are a hero going rogue. If you are going Rogue and running "evil" missions - I'm assuming you won't be earning Infamy until you flip that corner and become a villain; I'm assuming that you won't earn Influence for running "evil" missions either if you are still a hero. I certainly hope the DEVs just leave it alone. That would be the reasonable thing to do in this genre. Yes, this is a Superhero Genre game. If you don't like the polarity then find a game where there the sides really are only distinguished by the color of uniform that they wear - aka "Red and Blue" (though most of those games the side that you are on is Blue and the enemy is always red - or, at least, that has been my experience) Those that pick the path of Evil deserve their just rewards - which by your guesses will be a big pile of nothing! Yeah! The Villains loose. Boo villains! Boo! The "repair" isn't needed. Go for it. Crash the villain markets and soak up all the glory of your villainy. Evil is as evil does. And you deserve what you get if you relieve yourself in your own swimming pool. Face it. You are villains. Heroes worked to fill the hero market full of stuff. If the villains want a market full of more stuff then they have to work for it. Why should evil get rewarded for the things that Heroes do? They shouldn't. I think we have been over this time and time again. If it is so bad to be villain, the maybe you should stop being evil and become a hero. I'm certainly not going to give up trying to be a good person in real life simply because it seems that those that lie, cheat, and steal on various levels seemed to be getting ahead in this world. I certainly hope I can come to a comic book game and expect to see that the lines are drawn and I can stand tall for my heroic actions and not see my hard work go to the benefits of evil (characters). Of course, I'm still for stripping characters of all enhancements (and everything else) and starting them back of at "square 1" if they go "darkside" or "finally see the light". There should be a massive price to pay for switching sides in a game that is THE game about the Superhero Genre. Don't come crying to me if your Mastermind becomes a Defender when they finally become a hero. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Uh... Alt? This is a Thought Exercise, so how bout you snap to on the tightie whities and burn off some of that mental muffin top. Right now, you're just gnoshing the high caloric junk thoughts of bridge-dwelling sewer spew.
Comic and Hero/Villain Culture
Saturday January 29th, 2005 (12:37 PM) ~ Monday August 9th, 2010
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Sounds like an opportunity to me or maybe lots of opportunities ?
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
BTW everyone Positron's plan is out in the open in the EU Q&A
Positron: We are looking at the problems in the markets very carefully and want a good, working, feasable, not exploitive, not still broken somewhere, fun, easy to understand, logical, solution. |
Quote:
This? This is magnificent.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's clear to me that you, the real person behind the keyboard, are a metahuman being. You possess the cranial density of a collapsed star. I imagine you eating food by dropping it into an event horizon. In my mind's eye, I can see a burrito warping into an accretion disk like some culinary halo, finally giving off a burst of x-rays above your head as it achieves relativistic speeds just before vanishing into the infinite abyss that is your inner being.
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Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
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Completely agree
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
Force a needed repair? Nah. Let it tank, I get to say "I told you so" then.
 |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Well they will be able to buy their common IO recipes off the tables too but they dare not use any Wentworths salvage.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It's gonna be so cool when our Real Villains of Paragon SG goes vigilante, farms Longbow and then sells the loot we get for killing good guys on the hero market!
Hope you love SO's, because you'll never be able to buy another recipe of hunk of salvage without the possibility that it was listed by a blackhearted, monstrous villain. =D |
And we will farm Wyvern, Manticore's heroes, too.
Plus I plan to bring over villain mules with dual builds worth of stuff to hero side and email the items to my vigilantes to drop on Wentworths.
The corruption of Wentworths will be glorious. Is it July yet?
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
The only price paid in an MMO is time. How much time can you spend playing, working the angles, etc. That is all. If the Devs want a full side-switch to take a while, they'll make it so. Otherwise it will be 'easier'.|
Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
There should be a massive price to pay for switching sides in a game that is THE game about the Superhero Genre.
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Don't come crying to me if your Mastermind becomes a Defender when they finally become a hero.
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Your statements, though grandiose, have the insight of Chicken Little running rampant through a lemming farm after having a bender with a sandwich-board wearing doomsayer.
These are the issues:
Production of goods, resale of goods and acquisition of goods. I don't have any problems with the first two redside, since I have a dedicated partner and we have bins of stuff. Acquiring is tedious and slow, though. None of it is RP based though. *I* the player want a good. My animated characters jump through the hoops to get that good. The fact I have to run through MORE hoops villainside is the onerous part.
Of course, the recent GM-fest has left my level 5 Corruptor flush with 160 Merits...now to get to 25 to cash those in for resale.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Congratulations. You have just made the dumbest post I have ever seen on the internet.
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Originally Posted by The_Alt_oholic
This isn't red and blue.
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Its nice to see you guys flame someone besides me for a change. 
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Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!