Thought exercise - GR Crashing the BM


Angelwing

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Personally if we're talking about advantages I'd argue that Crotoa ain't all that. The only impressive things in there to me are the GMs and a FEW of the mob types.
It's just a zone with missions I really enjoy is all. Same with Striga. I never get tired of the majority of the arcs in those zones.


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

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Originally Posted by thehallows View Post
I guess we have very different perceptions of why there are more people blueside. I kind of assumed it was to do with the fact that there is far more content and zones blueside, loads of neat goodies with special mission mechanics, and especially some really awesome content like Croatoa. Damn, I almost want to go Vigilante just for Croatoa.Are you serious? I don't go much on the forums, but are there actually people who say there aren't inflated rewards blueside? With everyone I've played with in-game, it's been taken for granted as a completely uncontroversial fact that blueside rewards are inflated. Are we all just imagining that, for instance, there are a lot more merit rewards to be had on a TF than a SF, because we're all so silly? I'm a little thrown out of whack by that claim, like someone just told me Earth rotates around Mars and it's silly to say otherwise or something.
Actually many folks argue that the increased running around, decript, old zones and tfs (despite posi just being FIXED this issue), numerous EMPTY hazard zones are detriments to blue side.

Also the merit reward issue has already been explained by others.

I'd rather have faster, streamlined content, that doesn't have me running between zones and doing kill all after silly kill all (lears at some of the older tfs) AND gives less merit rewards than some of the dreck that exists blueside.

And even with that said many of my toons are going blue. Why? Cause of the market and how long it takes to buy ANYTHING redside.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
It's just a zone with missions I really enjoy is all. Same with Striga. I never get tired of the majority of the arcs in those zones.
I used to also enjoy the tf in there. Before i'd done it 1232343543 times.

As an aside, that zone would be perfect for a WarWtich tf


Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Anyway, the whole idea of incentive disparity pretty much falls apart once you realize that, even if all other things were perfectly equal, there'd be a strong incentive to participate in a more populated over a less populated market, and the more people follow this incentive, the stronger the incentive becomes. Dividing the population into two mutually exclusive choices, with rewards that increase in proportion to the number of people making that choice, is going to lead to one choice being overwhelmingly favored - that's just how network effects work.


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Posted

I would have to say that theres more to do blueside than red.

Want to hazard zone? Blue has em.

Want to earn +5 end without having to run a 40+ Tf? Blue has it

Want to earn 5% hp without needing to farm damage? just do blue tf's

Want to fight something besides Arachnos and Op'd longbow? Blue

Want a bank mission that you can finish without the timer starting? Blue.

Want new content? Blues will get it before red or they get it at the same time.

Want a varied Respec mission? Blue has 3 factions you can fight where as Red has the annoying Cot with thier acc debuffing ghosts at low levels and acc and rech debuffing ghosts at later levels.

Want a market that works for the most part? Blue.

Want to start somewhere besides mercy? you get a choice on Blue.

Theres many more reasons to go Blue than Red. I prefer the Red At's and the blue playground. Veats are much better than Squids but one At isnt enough.


 

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Originally Posted by Captain_Freak View Post
I would have to say that theres more to do blueside than red.

Want to hazard zone? Blue has em.

Want to earn +5 end without having to run a 40+ Tf? Blue has it

Want to earn 5% hp without needing to farm damage? just do blue tf's

Want to fight something besides Arachnos and Op'd longbow? Blue

Want a bank mission that you can finish without the timer starting? Blue.

Want new content? Blues will get it before red or they get it at the same time.

Want a varied Respec mission? Blue has 3 factions you can fight where as Red has the annoying Cot with thier acc debuffing ghosts at low levels and acc and rech debuffing ghosts at later levels.

Want a market that works for the most part? Blue.

Want to start somewhere besides mercy? you get a choice on Blue.

Theres many more reasons to go Blue than Red. I prefer the Red At's and the blue playground. Veats are much better than Squids but one At isnt enough.
I can only find two points of adjustment.

Most (all?) red zones have hazard areas in them.

Mayhems are more fun than Safeguards. (an opinion, granted, but I like to see stuff explode)


total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

 

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Originally Posted by thehallows View Post
Yeah, well, I can complain back about the disadvantages that villains have. But excepting a few griefers, wouldn't that solution work to balance out a merged market?

EDIT: You know, it just occurred to me. The incarnate system seems like a perfect opportunity to fix this. I assume we will get some new items for slotting up our incarnate levels. So all the devs need to do is put some valuable new recipes or salvage into content that is only available redside. Perhaps some SF that awards the valuable item, and that is the only way you can get it. Or perhaps there is only one enemy group that drops it and you have to go redside to find them.

Then heroes will need what villains have to sell and players will also have good incentive to go redside at least for a while. If they implement this with the correct balance, this should make merged markets feasible and should also solve the problem of Rogue Isle becoming a ghost town.

Again, I'm no economist, so correct me if I'm embarassingly wrong.
This wouldn't work unless those contacts will only give missions to pure villains and not someone who is halfway across and can do villain content. The contact would also have to make sure that no one who was halfway was on the team either, otherwise they'll just get the drops vside and go use the blue market like they're forced to do when only halfway from hero to villain and thus give nothing back to the red side market.


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Originally Posted by thehallows View Post
Sorry SwellGuy, but I don't quite get it. You seem to start out by saying that it wouldn't work as a fix, but then everything you say afterwards seems to support the idea that it would work. Wouldn't this work out then? If there is something equivalent to a Luck of the Gambler or Numina proc that you can only get redside, then you would have people going redside to get them, or buying from those who went redside to get them. In your terms, you will have buyers/sellers/drop producers moving to redside. You will also have buyers who will be forced to buy specifically from villains if they want a certain item. What am I missing here?
What you are missing is stubborn, obstinate, developers at least where the market is concerned. We have been told by them that there is no disparity in potential earning speed because all the merit rewarding content on both sides has been balanced around a mean time/merit rate.

Implementing your idea would first take an admission from the devs that there is a disparity in the red side ATs merit earning potential.

What that means is that it LOOKS like there is a disparity when there is not. Virtually all villain story arcs run in the same zones they start in where as hero content can take as much or more time traveling than actually playing the mission(s). Dr. Q is notorious for spending significanly more time traveling that fighting. If you want to speed up your merit earning blue side you need to leverage the fastest travel powers; range boosted Teleport or Super Speed.

The real disparity in the sides are:

1) The amount of content available blue side is much greater though extremely old and in dire need of revamping. This gives more opportunity for things to do which relieves some measure of boredom.

2) Merit rewards/time are greater for TF and SF content than for story arcs. This means that since blue side has more TF content and it is available in multiple level ranges that there is more potential opportunities to earn merits on the blue side.

3) All villians are built to solo. Villians are all generalists. This means that common drops like salvage and junk recipes are more available on red side because many people solo their villians (soloing you get to keep all the drops from mob defeats rather than sharing them with the team). The best rewards in the game at this point in time are PvP IOs, Pool C IOs purchased with merits, purple drops, and HO/SHOs. Purple recipes are the only case where there are likely to be more drops earned on the red side than blue as that is the only thing that most villians will be able to solo rather than have a team.

4) Heroes are specialists. That means that many AT choices on blue side need to team to perform well. This means that more team oriented content (TFs) are run on blue side. Higher population on blue side also make this more likely to occur.

Your solution doesn't fix the root of any of the problems and won't solve the real problems on red side.

Fixing 1 and 2 require a huge amount of development time for redside only content, an expense we have been told won't happen. New content will be co-op or mirrored on each side.

3 and 4 can't be fixed since it's designed into the very fabric of the game. GR will fix this somewhat by allowing AT bleed through but it won't do any thing for the population disparity and most likely will increase that disparity by allowing villians to move blue side where there is more content available and more opportunity for teaming.

A market merger however fixes or smoothes over many of the problems.

If heroes out number villians by 3 to 1 (which at my last spot check they did) then merging the market increases villian access to goods by 300% while only boosting hero access by 33% (a win/win for both sides with the villians coming out on top by a significant margin).

A market merger means that more purple recipes will be available to heroes which will make money flow from hero side to villian side. At the same time merit reward goods will be more available to villians (especially in the case of non-level 50 IOs) which will make the money flow back. Rare salvage, and goods like pool A and Pool B recipes, are more prevelant on red side where there is a higher preponderance of soloers, netting red siders a positive cash flow. Perhaps most importantly, since a significant portion of the toons played on red side are master minds, is what are essentially junk and fodder blue side (pet recipes) will be greatly available at much much lower prices to red side master minds.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
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Posted

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
It's clear to me that you, the real person behind the keyboard, are a metahuman being. You possess the cranial density of a collapsed star. I imagine you eating food by dropping it into an event horizon. In my mind's eye, I can see a burrito warping into an accretion disk like some culinary halo, finally giving off a burst of x-rays above your head as it achieves relativistic speeds just before vanishing into the infinite abyss that is your inner being.
So does teh tinfoil hat accelerate or impede teh process?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
EDIT: Also there ARE NO INFLATED rewards blueside. That's just silly.
I was able to purchase a LoTG +Rech on my Troller by level 28.

I had to wait until 39 to do the same on my Corr.

Doing the TFs available while leveling up, it's incredibly easy to bag 200 merits blueside, but it's horrible redside. I was able to get the blueside ones easy peasy, but I had to grind in Ouro to get them redside. Yes, blueside TFs take longer(usually), but there's just a ton of them to do, and they're run so frequently.

As for what I'll be doing, I've restricted myself from creating new villains until GR comes out. Everything will be moving to blue when it does. Some redside content is really awesome, like some of the patron arcs*, but besides that most of the game is mean. I don't dabble in the market for horribly expensive stuff like LoTGs, I use merits, so merit opportunities are very grood.


*awesome to play, I'm not one to determine whether something is good because of story or not.


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