What if I didn't take my ally rez?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Also the fact that if your a Deubuffing or Hold build, do you really wanna deselect the NPC your fighting and waste that minute or two it takes for the idiot on the other end to hit accept (Not calling all dead people idiots, but it happens) I've wasted rezzes before because someone walked away after they died or isn't paying attention when my Debuff powers coulda been used somewhere else, so the one character I have with rez, enless you ask for it I aint using it!


 

Posted

Wow. Wakies (even with break frees and blues) are no replacement for an in combat rez. It's just delusional to think that a player who has easy access to an in combat rez power is doing just as much for his/her team by carrying around an awaken. Those are high quality powers which should not be skipped unless you don't team or really need the power choices elsewhere.

edit: Also, there is a lot of blame being cast at misc. dead person who needs a rez. Players die a lot, even (if not especially) good ones. Let's not pretend that only a bad/negligent player hugs the dirt now and then. Especially those of us who like a challenge.


Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Truthfully, it's never bothered me.

However, if I saw a Dark Miasma user skip it, I'd be sad. Not because of the rez, but because that's an AOE STUN AND A -REGEN DEBUFF that they're skipping.

The other rez's...*shrug*.

It's nice when they someone has it, but not anything I'm worried about.

It's not like they're skipping ally buffs (SB, Shields, ect ect)
Infact it's rare to see howling Twilight actually used as a rez, on my Dark/Dark corruptor I use it as crowd control, HT + the fear cone means I can effectively take two large mobs out of the fight.


 

Posted

Quit dying. Pop your insps or use them to craft a wakie, your call. Power choice is my call.

Jer



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeedyXX View Post
Quit dying. Pop your insps or use them to craft a wakie, your call. Power choice is my call.

Jer

Power choice IS your call.

What is not your call is what the best power for a situation is. The situation determines that.

Often, that power can be a primary/secondary rez.


Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6

 

Posted

I keep putting off taking my rez in favor of powers that will keep you from dying in the first place. If you do die, use an awaken, I will cast mez protection and a heal on you.

I took Fallout before my rez on my rads, because they are both villains and blowing up my teammates' corpses is too much fun.


Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper

Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
You...
Wait, you WHAT? Ignored Poison?
Sam....Sam, Sam, Sam...Poison has a grand total of ONE power that is not useable on pets. The others are things that work on pets, are debuffs, one is even a major pet buff that turns your henchman into a walking de-buff bot.
Yeah, I almost spit my food out when I read that.


 

Posted

They're handy powers to have if you team a lot, but for someone who spends more time solo, an ally rez power is quite skippable.

Of course, with the ability to switch builds you can have a solo build all IOed out and then a secondary build for the odd team session with the ally rez and just slotted with SOs.


Goodbye, I guess.

@Lord_Nightblade in Champions/Star Trek Online

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Posted

Except for Howling Twilight, I never take rezes. There's always something better available. And I seldom team, so unless they add the ability to rez pets it's of little use anyway.


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

No matter what support set we're looking at, I rank the Ally Rez at or near the bottom of the priority list. A teammate has the option to take one and skipped it? Doesn't bother me for an instant.

Death in this game is just not that big of a deal. Awakens are incredibly easy to get. Travel powers trivialize the return from the hospital, if it's necessary. The only real penalty for dying is Debt (and even that barely counts), and Rez powers don't do anything to it. It's not like in FFXI, where there were no self-Rez powers, your Home Point Crystal was often 20-40 minutes away by the fastest travel methods the game offered, and depending on the tier of Resurrect spell you could eliminate 10-75% of the EXP Penalty you'd just taken. In that game, yeah, if your Red Mage or White Mage skipped their Resurrect spell it was the kind of thing that ended teams and expanded blacklists. In this game? Death is overcome too easily on my own for me to expect anyone else to waste a power slot taking care of it.

Also, on the subject of the Rez + Something Else powers... very rarely do I find that the dead guy is in a convenient location to get any real value out of the Rez-Nuke or Rez-Mez or whatever. And picking up Recall Friend for corpse-carrying would mean TWO powers wasted on a trick I wasn't that enthusiastic about in the first place.

Edit: Howling Twilight is, of course, the exception. But I've never deliberately used it as a Rez. I think there have been some dead folks around a couple of the times I've used it as a Mez + Debuff, but that was purely coincidental. Paying attention to the Rez potential in HT would feel like slotting my Katana Scrapper's attacks for Defense Debuff instead of Damage.


@Eisenzahn
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Posted

The only rez I take on any toon is howling twilight on dark miasmas. Too bad it's usually down whenever someone actually needs a rez, since I mainly use it for debuffing/random stuns.

(For some reason I didn't bother to read the thread. Everyone and their grandmother had already mentioned it >.>)


<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sermon View Post
Wow. Wakies (even with break frees and blues) are no replacement for an in combat rez. It's just delusional to think that a player who has easy access to an in combat rez power is doing just as much for his/her team by carrying around an awaken. Those are high quality powers which should not be skipped unless you don't team or really need the power choices elsewhere.
It is technically correct that wakies aren't as useful for an in-combat rez. However, there are actually relatively few situations where an in-combat rez is really needed. In most regular combat situations if someone goes down either it's as part of a team wipe or the rest of the team clears the spawn without difficulty and the player can rez with a wakie after the spawn is cleared. There are a few situations where a combat rez is helpful since the team is in combat for an extended period (MS Raid, Hamidon Raid, AV) but in those situations Recall Friend provides almost the same benefit and it has significant utility outside of those situations.

So in general even if a wakie isn't as much utility as a rez power a wakie plus an alternate power choice (like Recall Friend or Assault for example) does provide more utility than a rez power and like a rez power doesn't need slots.


 

Posted

How do I feel about it?

"We have dual builds." That's how I feel about it. If your concern is "I prefer having some other power for soloing," hey, fine. Put it in your solo build. Skip as many team powers as you want there. But at least consider the second build that's a bit heavier on support if you plan on any decent amount of teaming. For instance, I have /Thermal, /Empathy, /FF and /Sonic builds that are VERY empty when it comes to the secondary ... on my solo build. The primary gives up some offense (and concept) to fit more team-friendly powers in.

Not saying it's "necessary" - I skip it as well at times (on some rad emission, poison, etc. characters) especially since we can combine insps - but I do point it out.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
You...
Wait, you WHAT? Ignored Poison?
Sam....Sam, Sam, Sam...Poison has a grand total of ONE power that is not useable on pets. The others are things that work on pets, are debuffs, one is even a major pet buff that turns your henchman into a walking de-buff bot.
Well, that was probably a fumble on my part. I skipped Poison and Poison has a resurrect power, but if I inferred they were connected, I misled you. I've never really had a concept that could use Poison as a secondary, as I don't have too many Masterminds in general, owing to their limited primaries. The closest I cane to taking it was on my Necromancer (fairly by-the-book), and I still went with Dark Miasma for him simply because I'd already written a three-chapter story for him that relied heavily on curses and black magic, so Dark was the obvious choice. Beyond that, I have a techno-soldier dude, a ninja-wizard (that is, Ninja/Storm), a robotics dude (Bots/FF), a kind of occult gang leader (again, Thugs/Dark) and I think that's about it. Right now I'm looking at a Demons/Thermal Mastermind, so I just never had a reason to take it. Poison, Trick Arrow and I think Pain are things I have yet to even consider using, but maybe in time. We'll see.

An ally rez may have figured into my decision-making process, but I didn't skip a set because of it. If that were the case, I wouldn't have touched Forcefields or Dark Armour with a 10-foot pole, thanks to the sucker traps that are Repulsion Field and Cloak of Fear, respectively. Skipping the rez, at least for my current mentality, isn't that big a deal, just so long as I don't end up taking heat for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork View Post
I'd rather have a Samuel Tow-run character in my team, missing one Rez from an otherwise support-oriented powerset, than to have the average PuG-player setup as a "Healz0r".
Thanks

That's actually something I had to fast-learn on my Bots/FF Mastermind. Buffing all six of my bots with both forcefields is a significant chore, but when I'm on a team, I tend to want to bubble the team, as well, even if that means not bubbling the bots. A decent team-mate will contribute much more than a Combat Drone could ever hope to, especially in the higher levels. Even the Assault Bot falls far behind.

I realise Masterminds have a reputation of only ever using their support powers on their pets, and I agree that's bad practice. As long as you HAVE the powers, then frkkin' use 'em! It's what they're for. Masterminds, by and large, are strongly encouraged to take ally-only powers because of how the AT is designed - as henchmen count as allies, then taking ally-only powers actually helps you directly. The problem is that resurrect powers don't work on Henchmen.

And again - why? Are the developers worried that your henchmen will never be killed, then? I haven't checked the stats recently, but doesn't an ally rez have a recharge time of something like two minutes? That's hardly THAT big of a deal. I can see Howling Twilight not affecting henchmen, but that's OK, since it has other effects usable without an actual team-mate. But OK, you can't resurrect your henchmen. I can live with that. Can't the powers still do SOMETHING to them? Minor heal, minor stat boost... Just SOMETHING to make solo Masterminds want to take them? Because I know for a fact that the biggest hurdle is actually taking the power. Once I have the ally rez, I'm gonna' use it as much as I can, because it's just satisfying to help people like that.

Speaking of Howling Twilight (and we were), I actually did a villain Respec trial where I had to use that power for its resurrect A LOT. People tended to refuse to listen to me when I suggested we needed SOME plan on how to take down the vines, so we ended up dying a lot, and I ended up resurrecting a lot of people, being that my Necromancer was also a teleporter. I mean, I had the power, people were dead, so it made sense to. That's kind of why I'm convinced that as long as I can even pretend the power does something for me so that I can take it, I'm going to use it when that situation comes about. It's just that taking it in the first place is what stumbles me, for the simple fact that I hate levels when I take a no-power. "Great! I'm level XX! What power should I take next? Oh. That one. Great. So that's three more levels until something hopefully cool, then." It's just a groove-breaker.

That said, I actually learned a lot from this thread. I'm aware of the mechanics, I just wanted to hear what people felt on the subject more than anything else. At this point, it seems safe to put an ally rez off as long as I want and possibly not even take it at all, so that's a load off my mind. At this point, I may or may not grab the rez. I've taken junk powers before for lack of alternatives, and with villains lacking appropriate (read: fire) Epics, I constantly end up with power picks to burn, anyway.

*edit*
And, no, I wouldn't even consider a second build. I don't team even remotely enough for such a thing to have a point, let alone be worth the cost of time and resources. Normally, I'll team up once a week for a few missions MAYBE, and usually with people who aren't really big about efficiency anyway. I just don't want to catch wind with some random PuG ******* who feels I insulted his intelligence by not taking a must-have power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Sam,

Dont worry...

Just play with what gives you fun. The Rezzes arent unskippable. Actually, I do believe that there is only one of then that is really amazing... HT. My Dark Defender rarelly has it ready when a team mate dies (if that happens), because I use it A LOT as a weapon (even 6-slotted it!).

Just have fun, dear... have fun!


** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************

Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork View Post
I'd rather have a Samuel Tow-run character in my team, missing one Rez from an otherwise support-oriented powerset, than to have the average PuG-player setup as a "Healz0r".

Seriously, if I team with a character that skipped the ally Rez in their set, I'd have no problem with that, since we now have the ability to combine inspires.
How well they performed using the powers that they DID take would be more important.
^^This


 

Posted

If any team your on sucks enough to not have an awaken inspiration between the WHOLE team, then they don't deserve to be rezzed if they die.


"PvP Messiah"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I don't intend to play on a team
Then don't take it. Case closed, everybody go home.

::

Smarm aside, Conduit of Pain is worth a gimmick slot simply because if you happen to team, the buff it gives you is glorious. Granted, you might end up "not paying attention" when someone's bar goes into the red and the rez is up.


Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

 

Posted

with the three of a kind inspire thing, rezzes arent as needed as before(nor were they ever absolutely NEEDED) but on bigger events, it is nie to be able to pop people back up..less pressure on a mm, as their focus really is about the added power of the pets. a defender might catch some complaints, but not many, the mindset really isnt particularly strong for ally rezzes being needed. though i have noticed when i whip out an ally rez, they are appreciated.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sermon View Post
Wait.

You have a power that depends on people dying but then you don't believe in wasting a power choose to actually rez the player who died, because it's their fault?
Vengeance is a powerful buff. If someone is going to die repeatedly I would much rather the competent members of my group become buffed for his failure. In a situation where we're all about to bite it, I'd rather turn the tide of battle by buffing my allies than by rezing one guy who is probably going to get killed again shortly anyway.

After that, you can just mix up a wakie, making a single target Rez particularly more useless in comparison to the much more powerful Vengeance.

Furthermore, Vengeance is a nice place to shove another LotG Global Recharge. And it can be taken on everyone. And I usually wanted Tactics and Maneuvers for soft capped defense and for the Build Up IO.


 

Posted

I was once asked how I could skip my team mate rez on my ILL/RAD (never on my RAD/DP), and my reply was...

"You don't ask for a RAD/ for their rez power"

And Sam, I think the reason the rez's don't work on the pets, is because they can't answer yes/no to the "do you want to rez". It's only my guess though. Could be a different reason entirely.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Well, that was probably a fumble on my part. I skipped Poison and Poison has a resurrect power, but if I inferred they were connected, I misled you. I've never really had a concept that could use Poison as a secondary, as I don't have too many Masterminds in general, owing to their limited primaries. The closest I cane to taking it was on my Necromancer (fairly by-the-book), and I still went with Dark Miasma for him simply because I'd already written a three-chapter story for him that relied heavily on curses and black magic, so Dark was the obvious choice. Beyond that, I have a techno-soldier dude, a ninja-wizard (that is, Ninja/Storm), a robotics dude (Bots/FF), a kind of occult gang leader (again, Thugs/Dark) and I think that's about it. Right now I'm looking at a Demons/Thermal Mastermind, so I just never had a reason to take it. Poison, Trick Arrow and I think Pain are things I have yet to even consider using, but maybe in time. We'll see.

An ally rez may have figured into my decision-making process, but I didn't skip a set because of it. If that were the case, I wouldn't have touched Forcefields or Dark Armour with a 10-foot pole, thanks to the sucker traps that are Repulsion Field and Cloak of Fear, respectively. Skipping the rez, at least for my current mentality, isn't that big a deal, just so long as I don't end up taking heat for it.
Ahh, that makes more sense. Understood =] Poison is fairly decent, though. ST debuffs for the most part, but strong ones.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KayJMM View Post
Actually, I do believe that there is only one of then that is really amazing... HT. My Dark Defender rarelly has it ready when a team mate dies (if that happens), because I use it A LOT as a weapon (even 6-slotted it!).
See, that's kind of what I mean about powers being useful for players, themselves. This is, much as I try to pretend it isn't, a team-focused game, and getting people to be good team-players should be essential, in my opinion. As such, forcing people into either choosing a team-only functionality or skipping that important functionality altogether just causes less focused team players like myself to not even bother, thus causing our team prowess to suffer in the long run.

Ever since I argued my *** off over Shield Defence, I've held something very important to be true - if you include at least SOME amount of self-service into team-support powers, a LOT more people will take them and use them. And when more people actually have the powers, then more people will use the powers. Grant Cover is a good example - people will take it for the defence debuff resistance (which I believe is slottable for defence) and then basically run it for that. Good for them, but what they're actually doing is supporting the team, too, because their self-service power grants cover to their team-mates, as well. In a cheeky way, a self-serving player is still guided into helping his team, sometimes even unwittingly.

Howling Twilight, again, is another good example. A LOT of people take it, yet not a lot take it because it can resurrect. The result is that a lot of people HAVE it, so when it actually becomes needed, chances are good it's going to be used as a resurrect, anyway. That's kind of why I've always wanted to see ally-only powers have at least SOME functionality for the solo player. Not necessarily full functionality, not necessarily great functionality. Just SOMETHING. I really don't know what that could be with ally resurrect powers that don't target an enemy, though I suppose they could apply a minor buff or heal to the target henchman and never to a player. I don't know. I'm really stabbing in the dark here.

See, years ago I learned to just keep my hands off of Defenders and Controllers, because I got slapped across the wrist so many times it became clear I have no business messing with the AT. "It's a team AT!" they yelled at me. "Leave it alone!" Which is fine, I can roll with that. I don't have to play all AT to get my money's worth. But when it comes to Masterminds, I still want to see their secondaries be self-serving in their entirety. Again, team-only powers don't have to have a MAJOR use when solo, but just SOMETHING so that I can trick my own subconscious into believing that no, this power is not a waste.

Oh, a good example of that would be Taunt/Confront. Most people scoff at the powers, especially Scrapper Confront, yet I have that on EVERY Scrapper I've ever made. Why? I mean, isn't that a team power used to take the heat off squishies? Well... Yes and no. Yes, it very much is a team power, BUT it has the uncanny use of stopping runners from running (and much more consistently than shooting them with ranged attacks) and it is a nice pulling tool, should the need arise. Neither functionality is exactly GREAT, but both functionalities EXIST, so when I look at the power, I think "Well, I don't use it much, but I CAN use it, so why not take it?" I can't say the same for an ally-only resurrect power, and it bugs me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Despite having a level 50 mercs/poison, I am not the world's biggest fan of */poison. Aside from having one completely broken power (that stupid trap), I think it's mal-designed. But that being said...

I think it'd be an excellent idea for you to take the ally rez. At level 49. Probably not before, though, because it makes far more sense for you to load up on powers that actually help your team kill enemies and powers that help your team not die. Given a choice between taking the ally rez and Leadership powers, it's not even close, for example. I could even make a case for taking Tough before the ally rez, if it keeps you up and healing, keeps your minions fighting, longer. I could make a case for taking Provoke earlier than the ally rez, making it easier for you to tankermind for the team when things go south.

But there are two level 45-50 bits of content, already, where it's a big hairy deal if somebody goes to the hospital: the Hamidon raid and the Barracuda strike force. If somebody hosp's out of a full Hamidon raid, they probably don't get back into the zone. If somebody hosp's out of the Barracuda SF in the last mission, they lose the temp power that they need to have to complete the mission, and can't get it back.

But before then? Skip it. Take stuff that's more useful more often.