What if I didn't take my ally rez?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm not a team player, and as such would not really have access to ally-only power, but I'm a fan of Masterminds nonetheless. ... Now, I don't WANT this power, because I don't intend to play on a team, and as such it will constitute an empty pick, something I'm not a big fan of. ...

Basically, unless I end up with a power pick and NOTHING to take, I don't want to take an ally-only resurrect power. Is that an acceptable move to make?
I'm not sure why you're even asking the question. If you never team, how can it ever make a difference? Anything you want to do is acceptable if you never intend to team.

I skip the rez power if it doesn't make sense for the character, or if I can't afford the power slot. I have an Empathy/Psi defender that I took it on because it's pretty much a given that the Empath takes it and it fit the concept. I have an Illusion/Empathy controller I skipped it on because it just doesn't fit the concept, and I needed the slot for something useful. I took the rez power on my Dark/Dark defender because it is an extremely useful offensive power, which I use all the time for stunning and nailing AV regen.

On my other characters that can take a rez (Rad, Thermal, etc.), I usually skip it, but I do pick up the Day Job rez accolade. It's actually a very decent power, with very fast recharge.

Also, since the change to allow inspirations to be combined, the need for rez powers is drastically lower. Six times out of 10 the dead guy can rez himself, and 9 times out of 10 he can if he gets one inspiration from another player. Even when I have a rez power, by the time I can get over to use it the dead guy has rezzed himself.

Finally, the main reason I don't take rez powers is that I mostly team with people who don't get themselves killed, and I do my darnedest to make sure they don't. Why take a power that will be used in one mission out of a hundred?


 

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Another vote for skipping the rez. They can be handy powers, but they tend to be a low priority in just about every set which has them. I teamed almost exclusively when I was levelling up my Empath. I did take Resurrect on that character, but it was easily my most seldom-used power from the primary.

You'll run into the odd team wipe as you play, but in those cases you won't be able to rez everybody in as little time as it would take to go to the hospital anyway, so don't worry about them. As everyone else has said, the occasional defeat here and there is easily fixed with a couple of awakens. Carry a few of them around with you if you like, but don't worry about anybody giving you grief over not having the power.


 

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I doubt I'd take mine either on my new MM, except that it's Howling Twilight and therefore extremely useful even when soloing. Since MMs are, according to Castle, meant to fill a similar role to Tankers, you'd officially be doing a better job if you didn't let your teammates die in the first place, thus making ally-only rez powers a much lower priority. On my OTHER new MM (that hasn't been made yet) I don't think I'll take it, since he's fire secondary.


 

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Optional; nice, but not necessary.


 

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I always* take my rezzes, but it never bothers me if someone skips theirs.

*Well, most of the time. I took it, and vengeance, out of my Pain corrs Mo build for obvious reasons.


@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Oh, a good example of that would be Taunt/Confront. Most people scoff at the powers, especially Scrapper Confront, yet I have that on EVERY Scrapper I've ever made. Why? I mean, isn't that a team power used to take the heat off squishies? Well... Yes and no. Yes, it very much is a team power, BUT it has the uncanny use of stopping runners from running (and much more consistently than shooting them with ranged attacks) and it is a nice pulling tool, should the need arise. Neither functionality is exactly GREAT, but both functionalities EXIST, so when I look at the power, I think "Well, I don't use it much, but I CAN use it, so why not take it?" I can't say the same for an ally-only resurrect power, and it bugs me.
It's interesting, I agree with you on skipping rezzes but for different reasons. For me it doesn't come down to personal benefit versus team benefit it's a matter of utility. I have no problems with taking powers solely to benefit teammates the issue is how they benefit teammates. To use Empathy as an example there are six powers that only benefit teammates but Resurrect is the one I consider the most skippable. The other 5 all help to keep a team alive, healthy and moving. The only time Resurrect does that is in the uncommon situation where one person dies and the rest of the team can't finish the current spawn without their help. To me the same applies to Mutation and Conduit of Pain. Despite the nice buffs they provide the simple fact is that they are unlikely to change the tide of battle on their own. Chances are that one extra teammate living won't make the difference between the team wiping or finishing the spawn off.

Powers like Fallout, Power of the Phoenix and Vengeance are more borderline. The damage and debuffs the first two apply and team buff the last one applies do have the potential to turn the tide of battle in a way that simply rezzing one ally doesn't.

Now this isn't meant to imply that a power needs to change the tide of battle on it's own for me to consider it useful but in the case of powers that require a dead teammate I'm giving up a power choice that I can use all the time (like another attack, something from the Leadership pool or Recall Friend) which will make a difference in every battle while the rez will only be used occasionally and probably won't actually make a difference when it is.


 

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If I have room for a rez power, I take it. If I don't, I don't and I don't worry about it. Any power that requires your team to die is of limited value to me, especially when combining insps to make awakens/bounce backs is so very easy to do.


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Originally Posted by eltonio View Post
This is over the top mental slavery.

 

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Sermon insists:

Power choice IS your call.

What is not your call is what the best power for a situation is. The situation determines that.

Often, that power can be a primary/secondary rez.
True, but like in evolution, what's best can often be irrelevant as long as what's done "works".


Dec out.

 

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My Plant/Emp doesn't have it, or Absorb Pain. No-one has ever complained at all. And I play exclusively on PuGs with her. There were more appealing options for her so I took them instead.*

My Fire/Rad controller also skipped Mutate initially. But took it as his "throw away" power on my second respec (previous entries were Bonfire and Smoke).

Howling Twilight isn't a rez, it's am AOE Stun and Debuff, which has the unfortunate side effect of bringing people back from the dead *(I've taken it on my MM and my Dark/Sonic defender and tend to use it as a backup mez or for AVs).*


 

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I don't take it on my thugs/poison MM or my earth/thermal troller.

Nobody complains and I mostly team.

A) defeat is a lot less likely these days

B) combining insps makes the ally rez redundant

C) it really doesn't take long to get back from the hospital if all else fails

In fact it seems to me the best things the Devs could do would be to add an optional power at that level - an either/or choice.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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If you really never team, then don't bother. If you do team, but only do so infrequently, you can still do without. You might get some raised eyebrows once in a while, but that's it. If we were at 30+, I was dead, and you were playing a character with access to a rez but hadn't taken it, I'd probably grumble with mild annoyance at the screen... and then I'd combine inspirations to make an Awaken once the fighting was over, and we'd continue on our merry way without a second thought. Unless you're in one of those rare situations where the rez is consistently the difference between survival and teamwipe, this shouldn't really become an issue. And if someone throws a hissyfit over it anyway, that's probably your first hint that this is a team you don't want to be on. City of Heroes isn't such a difficult game that a few 'sub-optimal' power choices makes a team unworkable.

Unless you're heavy into IOs, just make a second build for teams where the rez is desirable.

Personally, I always take my resurrect powers, though I usually don't take them until the mid-to-late 20s. They're great power picks - really useful with just the base slot, meaning that I get two free slots to put in powers that actually do want them and don't need to worry about underslotting them as I plan out my build.

On the general assumption that you have the right and ability to take and skip whatever powers you want... well, yes. That's obviously true. But it's also obviously true that other people can and will make assumptions about your intelligence and skill level based around this. You can't control what people think of your choices for the same reason that they can't control your choices. Whether that bothers you or not will depend on the thickness of your skin.


The Ballad of Iron Percy

 

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Originally Posted by The_Hegemon View Post
Personally, I always take my resurrect powers, though I usually don't take them until the mid-to-late 20s. They're great power picks - really useful with just the base slot, meaning that I get two free slots to put in powers that actually do want them and don't need to worry about underslotting them as I plan out my build.
Hmm... You know, that's not a bad point. It's the next best thing to skipping a power pick. I've often found myself spreading slots too thin because I kept taking slot-heavy powers, so a power that doesn't need may (or any) would actually be pretty sweet. I guess that in itself is reason enough to grab it. Hmm...


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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"What if I didn't take my ally rez?"


They can damn well use a wakie.

Edit:

More to the point, it isn't your responsibility to compensate for your teammate's shortcomings. If you're playing a set with an ally rez power, you probably have more than one way of keeping them alive in the first place. If that fails it doesn't fall to you to get them back into the fight.

My attitude on this stems from the attitude I see a lot from players toward Empathy characters.

Basically: "WTF?! How could you let me die like that?! You're a crappy healer!"

The fact that they died 2 floors above the empath and were the only one on the team up there never seems to register with them. Those people seem to think that because there is an Empath on the team they can play as stupid as they want and not worry about it, because it's the healer's fault if they die.


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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

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Whereas a lot of Empathy characters are genuinely stupid, and deserving of the treatmen they get.


 

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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Whereas a lot of Empathy characters are genuinely stupid, and deserving of the treatmen they get.
What if they prefer treatwomen? Or are you saying Women are inferior to men at being treats?


 

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Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
What if they prefer treatwomen? Or are you saying Women are inferior to men at being treats?
Women are inferior. Full stop*.

* Hint: may not be entirely serious.


 

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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
women are inferior. Full stop*.

* hint: May not be entirely serious.
ibgg +1


 

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Originally Posted by poptart_fairy View Post
Women are inferior. Full stop*.

* Hint: may not be entirely serious.
that is some good gg baiting there. +1


 

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ibt?


 

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Originally Posted by Mylia View Post
that is some good gg baiting there. +1
There's actually quite a few militant feminists on the board.


 

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And back to the subject. The only ally rez I ever take is Howling Twilight and I don't take it as a rez. I take it as an attack that has a side effect of rezzing.


Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!

 

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I wouldn't worry too much about it: not taking your rez is hardly like being "that guy" who didn't take SB or TT: Maneuvers. 90% of the time you can just make do with crafting a wakie if someone drops.

Now that said I personally always like to fit the ally rez in my builds eventually, but that is because I build with TF runs in mind, where AV slug-fests and the need to keep the team constantly moving is more desired.

Isn't there like a day job temp that gives you an ally rez anyway?


A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread

 

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Now I feel sad. Why doesn't anyone ever specifically bait ME? I have plenty of topics I can rant about... The closest I've come was Leo_G unintentionally referencing a concept argument we'd had before


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Now I feel sad. Why doesn't anyone ever specifically bait ME? I have plenty of topics I can rant about... The closest I've come was Leo_G unintentionally referencing a concept argument we'd had before
Cause you make all our rant look shameful. Your are well detailed and well in-sighted.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Now I feel sad. Why doesn't anyone ever specifically bait ME? I have plenty of topics I can rant about... The closest I've come was Leo_G unintentionally referencing a concept argument we'd had before
Probably because we'd get bored of reading your response about seven paragraphs in.