Resistence: All hail Calvin Scott?
By
Arnabas,
Posted on: 2010-03-18 11:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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To be perfectly honest, it's a bit watery. They could have used a bit more powd{#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
How's that koolaid taste?
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Okay, obviously she volunteered. Cole has our best interest at heart and Aurora saw that. There'd be no need to lie or mind control...|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think you're all missing some details...
When Aurora volunteered to host Praetor Tilman's consciousness, Scott didn't believe it. His wife wouldn't have done such a thing without at least talking to him first. See that. Reason to believe his wife wasn't even doing this willingly. He questioned the Praetor about his wife's decision, but those questions were ignored by both Praetor Tilman and Emperor Cole. Shortly after he questioned the Emperor, Calvin found himself admitted to the Mother of Mercy Psychiatric Hospital by the Emperor's decree and placed under Tilman's personal care. Tormented by the demon wearing his wife's body, something inside Calvin--a sensation he had never really felt before--rose to the surface: a pure, burning rage. Then there's the rest of it. He's not looking to just get that piece of tail back.  He's trying to save his wife.His whole bio reads to me that his wife was taken against her will. And if not against her will, something more was done to her after the fact (ie...Sure I'll help you. It won't hurt my life will it? Of course not. You'll never even know I'm there. HAHAHA SUCKER! *traps her psyche deep down and takes control*). This doesn't read to me "I got dumped. Now I'll get her back or I'll get even." Now mind you...in good story fashion, Calvin can be put through the questions... What if he's wrong? What if she did just change out of the blue? What then? Does he keep fighting? If so, what are his reasons for fighting now? Right now, he's fighting to get his wife back, because he basically thinks she's been taken against her will (which could be the case). |
... but let's go with your cough theory. Let's say that he "volunteered" her against her will.
So what?
I mean it. In your Primal Earth, people are forced to sign up for the draft in the army and to pay taxes. This is taking of a person for the greater good of their country. Why is that all right but tasking one person not? Maybe if we pressed entirety of our 18 year old men into joining wars in which they don't believe... maybe then we'd be as free as you, right?
Except Toby.
There now is another person in Auroras Body. One that Calvin claims taunted him in prison. I say claimed cause its only his words we can go with on this.
However what good then, for a greater good, is this for the person of Aurora?
How is this good for Aurora if she cannot hold her own body, which was her body, she was born in it.
Why should another person inhabit someone elses body, what good is this for the society?
We also have in our Primal Earth, age old sorcerers without bodies that steals the body of inncent (and not so innocent) citizens.
Is it right to take another persons body? And why could not Aurora serve Emperor Cole in her own body?
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The fact remains that Calvin Scott is a criminal. All members of the Resistance are criminals. Criminals get punished, while law-abiding citizens are free to do whatever they wish as long as they obey the law. The only threat to the citizens is the criminal network that claims to be the good guys. The Resistance knowingly endangers innocent civilians, and we're supposed to think they're the good guys? I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that habitually breaking the law and hurting innocent people is the mark of a hero.
Emperor Cole, on the other hand, protects the innocents while punishing those who would do them harm. He is the one who cares for people. He does everything in his power to ensure the safety and happiness of all of the citizens of Earth. If you aren't a threat to peace and order, the Emperor isn't a threat to you.
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I especially think that last line in his biography is a major clue that Calvin will not always be asking us to do things we feel are morally justified. Vengeance is a hell of a motivator, sure, but anger makes it difficult to have sound judgment. It very much sounds like he is more focused on revenge rather than freedom. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think you're all missing some details...
When Aurora volunteered to host Praetor Tilman's consciousness, Scott didn't believe it. His wife wouldn't have done such a thing without at least talking to him first. See that. Reason to believe his wife wasn't even doing this willingly. He questioned the Praetor about his wife's decision, but those questions were ignored by both Praetor Tilman and Emperor Cole. Shortly after he questioned the Emperor, Calvin found himself admitted to the Mother of Mercy Psychiatric Hospital by the Emperor's decree and placed under Tilman's personal care. Tormented by the demon wearing his wife's body, something inside Calvin--a sensation he had never really felt before--rose to the surface: a pure, burning rage. Then there's the rest of it. He's not looking to just get that piece of tail back. He's trying to save his wife.His whole bio reads to me that his wife was taken against her will. And if not against her will, something more was done to her after the fact (ie...Sure I'll help you. It won't hurt my life will it? Of course not. You'll never even know I'm there. HAHAHA SUCKER! *traps her psyche deep down and takes control*). This doesn't read to me "I got dumped. Now I'll get her back or I'll get even." Now mind you...in good story fashion, Calvin can be put through the questions... What if he's wrong? What if she did just change out of the blue? What then? Does he keep fighting? If so, what are his reasons for fighting now? Right now, he's fighting to get his wife back, because he basically thinks she's been taken against her will (which could be the case). |
Alternatively, I imagine you'll be forced to make tough decisions while sided with Tyrant as well, the main difference being that if you sided with Tyrant, you probably *wanted* to be evil and have power, so the choice may not actually be that difficult.
Then there's the Syndicate, who I have a feeling I'll like the best.
WOW. Reading this bio, I'm excited for GR all over again...
Curse you Paragon Studios, why do you TAUNT us so????
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That alone would get me to topple empires and burn worlds. |
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Admittedly, she was psychic, so probably knew exactly what you wanted at all times and could skip straight to doing that thing you like that you'd never admit you liked...
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A vigilante isn't anti-law - that would make them an anarchist.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Oh my lord I am a fool.
All this time, I've been arguing BACKWARDS. And it was Golden Girl herself that showed me my mistake. Vigilante: Someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses These are people that go AGAINST the law to bring what they see as justice, and that is why Vigilantes would be even less likely to work with Tyrant than the Hero types. When someone thinks the law is in the wrong, MORE law is not the answer they think of. When you have a group of Vigilantes, it's usually called a lynch mob! And which side in Praetoria is against the current legal structure? |
A vigilante is usually only ever against the law because they think it doesn't go far enough, not that it shouldn't be there at all.
On Primal earth, the law allows you to go after criminals, but it doesn't allow you to murder them - so for some heroes, this could be seen as frustrating, and in a way holding back their efforts to clean up the city - so Tyrant's version of law and order could be more appealing, as it's more direct, and has a more permanent punishment system.
On Primal Earth, everyone is free to make their life choices, and everyone has rights, including criminals - so the freedoms and rights people enjoy here also mean that there will be more crime and world-threatening situations.
Freedom here means that Heroes will have to keep risking their lives to protect society from the same threats and the same mistakes, over and over again, because real freedom always comes at a price.
But Tyrant has reduced the freedom of his society, but raised the security - Praetoria is safer and more peaceful than Primal Earth - and, like the freedom on Primal Earth, the Praetorian peace comes at a price.
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| I've been thinking Good versus Evil, when I should be thinking Law versus Chaos. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yes, it leads to hate, and then suffering |
Originally Posted by Warkupo
I especially think that last line in his biography is a major clue that Calvin will not always be asking us to do things we feel are morally justified. Vengeance is a hell of a motivator, sure, but anger makes it difficult to have sound judgment.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And then blissful release when you realize you can just pull your opponent's spine through their neck.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Yes, it leads to hate, and then suffering
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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You have a point when I say they aren't against the law, they just believe that the law fails to provide justice. And in this case, Tyrant's rule is just adding more Fail, the additional laws are not making it any easier to punish criminals, but it is giving them the ability to punish the innocent. For much of the law we've seen we're looking at punishment before the crime.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A vigilante isn't anti-law - that would make them an anarchist.
A vigilante is usually only ever against the law because they think it doesn't go far enough, not that it shouldn't be there at all. On Primal earth, the law allows you to go after criminals, but it doesn't allow you to murder them - so for some heroes, this could be seen as frustrating, and in a way holding back their efforts to clean up the city - so Tyrant's version of law and order could be more appealing, as it's more direct, and has a more permanent punishment system. |
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| But Tyrant has reduced the freedom of his society, but raised the security - Praetoria is safer and more peaceful than Primal Earth - and, like the freedom on Primal Earth, the Praetorian peace comes at a price. |
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| No it is good versus evil - the overall morality of the Resistance is good, even if some of their members are not so good, and the overall morality of Tyrant and his minions is evil, even if some of them are not so evil. |
But the Resistance, here's where it gets interesting. They may call it a 'Supply run' but it's still robbery. They may call it 'demoralizing the populous' but it's still beating up police, regardless of the fact that these cops would have no problem killing the people they're supposed to be protecting. They may call it 'disabling Utopian propaganda' but it's still a Mayhem Mission. It's giving a Hero the chance to see how the other side lives. In the Resistance, you ARE breaking the law.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Preach Brother!
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Originally Posted by NarfMann
The fact remains that Calvin Scott is a criminal. All members of the Resistance are criminals. Criminals get punished, while law-abiding citizens are free to do whatever they wish as long as they obey the law. The only threat to the citizens is the criminal network that claims to be the good guys. The Resistance knowingly endangers innocent civilians, and we're supposed to think they're the good guys? I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that habitually breaking the law and hurting innocent people is the mark of a hero.
Emperor Cole, on the other hand, protects the innocents while punishing those who would do them harm. He is the one who cares for people. He does everything in his power to ensure the safety and happiness of all of the citizens of Earth. If you aren't a threat to peace and order, the Emperor isn't a threat to you. |
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Some people have all the luck |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Pure rage.
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I hope not. That would be pathetic.
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Well, they don't really have to if they do intend on having the Resistances good intentions pave your road to hell.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I hope not. That would be pathetic.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Depends on the hero.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
No matter what, no harm shall fall to the innocent.
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I've got several heroes who would have no trouble killing the baby on track B to save the people on track A. Some would save the baby instead if that was their mission.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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But what if harming a few innocents would safeguard the vast majority of their fellow innocents?|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Up until this thread I was thinking that Tyrant would lead us unto evil. But looking back that just makes no sense. All it would take is the first mission to kidnap and 'disappear' one person who has committed no crime what so ever, and anyone even approaching decent would punch his superior in the face and jump sides. It doesn't matter what kind of person they are, anyone who would harm the innocent was NEVER A HERO TO BEGIN WITH.
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A superpowered guy who won't play ball isn't innocent - he's a threat to soceity - failing to use his powers to help Tyrant maintain order is selfish, so he should expect to be removed from the society he shows so little care for.
But if his wife/girlfriend starts asking difficult questions, then she's still innocent of any major crime - so mindwiping her is actually doing her a favor - when she returns from the Asylum, she won't remember any of her previous life, so no more concerns over what happened to her partner - mindwiping frees people from anxiety and doubt - it's for their own good, as it makes society calmer and more peaceful, an doesn't require anyone to be killed.
The Mother of Mercy facility brings the mercy of release from harmful thoughts and memories, benefiting both the individual and the society they're released back into.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I love daring dark. I love gratuitous dark. I love the type of dark that makes people go "What is wrong with you!?"... but Tyranatrix wouldn't raise eyebrows from "Concerned parents"; it would lift them straight off their head.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I hope not. That would be pathetic.
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Agreed!|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I hope not. That would be pathetic.
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I don't want them to take the few off the beaten path little storylines we have.
They're not all over the place. And even with GR, I don't think it will be ALL OVER THE PLACE.
Keep it end, have a little darkness thrown in.
Yes, keep it simple.
"Tyrant and Dominatrix are in a relationship" DONE!
"Tyrant and Dominatrix are ina relationship and every night they [CENSORED....................]" TO MUCH!
I don't want to see the whole game/story become some dark twisted story that I might write. But do like the idea of having little things thrown in like that, to change it up whether it makes things darker or lighter.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Wes? This would be the time to pitch Paragon Unleashed.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
"Tyrant and Dominatrix are ina relationship and every night they [CENSORED....................]" TO MUCH!
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Does anyone else want to watch the Office after hearing the name Calvin Scott?
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Is this what you truly believe? Behind the Hero rhetoric and simplistic responses, do you really believe that sacrifice is the way of peace? That slaughtering entire cities is worth it for some nebulous 'protection' of the world as a whole. I don't. You may not be able to save everyone, but that doesn't mean you don't try.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But what if harming a few innocents would safeguard the vast majority of their fellow innocents?
A superpowered guy who won't play ball isn't innocent - he's a threat to soceity - failing to use his powers to help Tyrant maintain order is selfish, so he should expect to be removed from the society he shows so little care for. But if his wife/girlfriend starts asking difficult questions, then she's still innocent of any major crime - so mindwiping her is actually doing her a favor - when she returns from the Asylum, she won't remember any of her previous life, so no more concerns over what happened to her partner - mindwiping frees people from anxiety and doubt - it's for their own good, as it makes society calmer and more peaceful, an doesn't require anyone to be killed. The Mother of Mercy facility brings the mercy of release from harmful thoughts and memories, benefiting both the individual and the society they're released back into. |
There is nothing in this world, not even peace that is worth sacrificing even one life, let alone thousands. Much less millions. There is no crime so vile that it would be acceptable to kill hundreds because one may commit that crime. And there is no amount of 'security that is worth the absolute removal of rights that is mind **** by Mother Mayhem. There is no place for Heroes in Tyrant's evil empire. And I've discovered that that's not a bad thing.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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K, if you say so...|
Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Wes? This would be the time to pitch Paragon Unleashed.
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Paragon Unleashed - Where we allow, nay, ENCOURAGE incestuous superhero porn!!!
So I just read his bio. I easily see where this is going.
Either A: Cole eventually gives Calvin an offer to betray the resistance in exchange for giving him his wife back and a full pardon. Meaning Scott will end up being an enemy.
Or B: Scott eventually gets his wife back but finds out that she really did volunteer for it and that he realizes this entire time he was fighting his own wife.
and possibly C: A combination of the two to add more of a twist.
PS> BACK DETAILS!!!!
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Where does the bit about pretoria only having level 1-20 content come from?