Resistence: All hail Calvin Scott?
By
Arnabas,
Posted on: 2010-03-18 11:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Actually, I believe the devs have said that even if you go through the Resistance storyline, you'll have the ability to become either a Hero or a Villain by the end.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
So you're saying that Going Rogue will have the Resistance be the side that will turn people evil, and Tyrant turn Villains good. You say this even though (as Golden Girl will tell us...repeatedly) the devs have stated that Resistance=Hero and Praetor=Villain?
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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A quote from Positron |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Right right, I get what you're saying, I just said it poorly. I was focused on Tyrant being the side that gets heroes to fall, but your idea gives us the idea that it's Resistance that does that, something I hadn't even thought about until then.
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"Praetorians do not use the normal GR system, but have points within their stories where they can choose "Loyalist (aka Villain)" or "Resistance (aka Hero)""
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
"Calvin is going to get his wife back--or he's going to burn the world down around him trying."
How can anyone follow someone willing to sacrifice the world, for his own needs? The man is psychotic and needs to be stopped before he carries through with this threat, for the Praetorians are not the only ones in hams way.
OK, we're not talking about Natives to Praetoria. Going Rogue is supposed to give us the opportunity to change the sides of the existing characters. In order for THOSE Heroes to change sides, they need to have a reason to join whichever side that will cause them to fall and become Villains. Right now, the ONLY organization Heroes have ANY reason to join is the Resistance. That means that they would HAVE to be the ones to cause Heroes to fall, but Tyrant is supposed to be the one to do that, because he's EVIL
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Regarding the GR system, I think it's a good time for me to point out that a while back they added the ability to choose dialog options, but they haven't really done anything with it yet. So there's no reason to believe that any GR missions will be clearly good or evil, when they could just as easily all be both.
Not saying this has anything to do with anyone's argument, just reminding everyone.
hmmm. <sidenote> That there is colored lighting in the screenshot... I don't remember that from other teaser images before.
Did I miss it, or is that another 'new' display?</sidenote>
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Amd why wouldn't the more vigilante types join Tyrant? He stands for law and order, and gives his followers much more freedom to enforce justice than Heroes get in Paragon City.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
OK, we're not talking about Natives to Praetoria. Going Rogue is supposed to give us the opportunity to change the sides of the existing characters. In order for THOSE Heroes to change sides, they need to have a reason to join whichever side that will cause them to fall and become Villains. Right now, the ONLY organization Heroes have ANY reason to join is the Resistance. That means that they would HAVE to be the ones to cause Heroes to fall, but Tyrant is supposed to be the one to do that, because he's EVIL
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In Paragon City, there's a constant cycle of crimes, arrests, imprisonment, escape, and more crimes - Tyrant breaks that cycle by skipping the whole imprisonment thing and replacing it with permanent removal - and his world seems to have less crime than Primal Erath as a result.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Um... thats not really the impression I got from the info I have heard/seen. A hero going rogue has nothing to do with joining any oragnisation, its more about moral choices. There will be a bunch of new missions that can change your alignment, based on morality. If a hero does enough vigilante/baddy missions then they get the chance to become a vigilante, then if they do more they can declare themselves a villain. (same with villains). Paretoria is a new starting area for 1-20 that has its own seperate storyline that ends with ther pratorian people picking an alignment and coming to our earth.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
OK, we're not talking about Natives to Praetoria. Going Rogue is supposed to give us the opportunity to change the sides of the existing characters. In order for THOSE Heroes to change sides, they need to have a reason to join whichever side that will cause them to fall and become Villains. Right now, the ONLY organization Heroes have ANY reason to join is the Resistance. That means that they would HAVE to be the ones to cause Heroes to fall, but Tyrant is supposed to be the one to do that, because he's EVIL
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from the website:
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Moral Alignment System Change alignment from Hero to Villain or Villain to Hero based on your moral decisions. Heroes can now cross over to the Rogue Isles, and Villains can experience Paragon City for the first time. Immersive New Starting Experience Start as a Praetorian and decide to follow the Loyalists or join the Resistance. Evolve into a Hero or a Villain based on your moral choices. |
Thats certainly what i am hoping for anyway, from everything I heard/read about the system. It will remain to be seen exactly how well written the moral mission are. (I have high hopes for them though)
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Yay! Emperor Cole! Keep the masses safe!
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Y'know, that would have been great, except we've seen that his tactics leave the "Security versus oppression" debate behind and drop right off the moral event horizon. We've gone well past the point where it would make more sense for people to start the slippery slope joining LORD RECLUSE and moving on the the obviously more evil Tyrant than the way the game is going being presented.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And why wouldn't the more vigilante types join Tyrant? He stands for law and order, and gives his followers much more freedom to enforce justice than Heroes get in Paragon City.
In Paragon City, there's a constant cycle of crimes, arrests, imprisonment, escape, and more crimes - Tyrant breaks that cycle by skipping the whole imprisonment thing and replacing it with permanent removal - and his world seems to have less crime than Primal Earth as a result. |
At least Recluse has laws in place protecting the citizens he rules over, rather than slaughtering them for little to no reason. Recluse has never even been implicated in anything as sordid as the possible relationship between Cole and his grand daughter. Hell, he's not even involved with Ghost Widow, that's Scirocco's deal. Recluse even allows public declarations AGAINST him on HIS OWN LOCAL STATION.
I seriously, seriously can't think of ANY Hero in comics that would follow an obvious monster like Tyrant. Hell, the characters that are already sliding down that slope/ They would SHOOT HIM IN THE FACE. The only people that would join such a paper thin evil regime are the ones that are already complete monsters.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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If there's no association between the Side Switching and the Praetorian organizations, then why have it in Praetoria at all?
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Um... that's not really the impression I got from the info I have heard/seen. A hero going rogue has nothing to do with joining any organization, its more about moral choices. There will be a bunch of new missions that can change your alignment, based on morality. If a hero does enough vigilante/baddy missions then they get the chance to become a vigilante, then if they do more they can declare themselves a villain. (same with villains). Paretoria is a new starting area for 1-20 that has its own separate storyline that ends with the Pratorian people picking an alignment and coming to our earth.
from the website: So, all this Loyalist/Resistance stuff has little to do with Hero or Villain. You can have heroic Loyalists who are just trying to save people and Villainous Resistance folks who just want to watch the world burn. And Heroes who don't care one jot about Paretoria, but who might just be tempted by a bribe... or maybe they get tired of seeing the same bad guys let out of jail time after time and decide to try out a more permanent solution. That's certainly what i am hoping for anyway, from everything I heard/read about the system. It will remain to be seen exactly how well written the moral mission are. (I have high hopes for them though) |
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Is it? Again, I never had the impression that the side switching stuff for Heroes and Villains happened entirely (or indeed, at all) in Praetoria. Maybe I missed where they said that, or something.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
If there's no association between the Side Switching and the Praetorian organizations, then why have it in Praetoria at all?
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Always remember, we were Heroes.
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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay
Cole felt despair and created an empire. Scott felt despair and sought to destroy it. We need to start making propaganda posters STAT. |
My sig is now propaganda.
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Yes, the point is that Praetoria is where your characters will face the moral choices that will cause them to change their alignment. And if it is something that can be done on Primal Earth, then why did we need to pull story resources out of the last several Issues for what amounts to be nothing more than an alternate starting zone when the entire Resistance storyline could have just as easily taken place in the Isles?
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Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed
Is it? Again, I never had the impression that the side switching stuff for Heroes and Villains happened entirely (or indeed, at all) in Praetoria. Maybe I missed where they said that, or something.
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Praetorian propaganda should also have a gentler side, to encourage loyalty:|
Originally Posted by RadDidIt
My sig is now propaganda.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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*shrugs* because they wanted to freshen up the starting experience with all the new shineys to help attract new subscribers. (which they will be hoping to get with the new boxes on shelves) And wanted to flesh out and tell the stories of the praetorians. And because of the amount of alting done in this game, the content most people have repeated is the first 20 levels or so, so adding new zones to those gives new levelling options, which prevents altitis burnout. (and therefore better subscriber retention). Probably some of those reasons. |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Yes, the point is that Praetoria is where your characters will face the moral choices that will cause them to change their alignment. And if it is something that can be done on Primal Earth, then why did we need to pull story resources out of the last several Issues for what amounts to be nothing more than an alternate starting zone when the entire Resistance storyline could have just as easily taken place in the Isles?
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But, like i said, I'm expecting something different from GR than it seems you are. Hopefully we'll get a bunch of new concrete info soon (theres that PAX thing soon right? end of next week or somesuch). And then GR beta will be upon us too.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Our choices are the Ku Klux Klan run by a child molester and the underground railroad run by a black John McClane, and somehow there's supposed to be ambiguity.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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The Rogue Isles are too openly evil for GR - there's no mystery to uncover there |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Yes, the point is that Praetoria is where your characters will face the moral choices that will cause them to change their alignment. And if it is something that can be done on Primal Earth, then why did we need to pull story resources out of the last several Issues for what amounts to be nothing more than an alternate starting zone when the entire Resistance storyline could have just as easily taken place in the Isles?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Our choices are the Ku Klux Klan run by a child molester and the underground railroad run by a black John McClane, and somehow there's supposed to be ambiguity.
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Abrahms just blew my ****ing mind.
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Oh, there's a mystery all right. The mystery of how a person can look at two people, one who's actions have shown that he has little regard for the lives of humanity as a whole, and one who's entire villainous career is a vengeance ploy against a single hero, and decide that the mass murderer is the lesser evil.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Rogue Isles are too openly evil for GR - there's no mystery to uncover there
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The Rogue Isles actually has more freedom and more protections for its citizens, yet TYRANT is the better choice?
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
The Rogue Isles actually has more freedom and more protections for its citizens, yet TYRANT is the better choice? |
My toons will be Loyalist, but Abrahms has a very solid point.
Hmm you know I never thought of that.
Recluse allows things to be said against him because he wants to look good, yes I'm not entirely sure the Rogue Isles are considered a soverign state by the UN but he's still a little collection of islands compared to the United States of America. He still needs to present atleast an outwardly decent look. Heck if his citizens were treated too badly they would just probably leave en masse, don't care how high tech your weapons are or how many faceless goons you have, if a lot of people want to do something and are willing to run through gunfire to do it, then you're not going to be stopping them.
Regardless of where the Resistance stands morally, they will always be the lesser evil compared to the Ingsoc.
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Quuuuuick question:|
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Regardless of where the Resistance stands morally, they will always be the lesser evil compared to the Ingsoc.
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If Emperor Cole dies, who will defend the WORLD (yes, the world) against the resurgence of Hamidon? Don't give me that lesser of two evils crap. Scott will burn it all down to retrieve his long-lost love, and I don't think he quite realizes what "burning it all down" could mean.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.