Resistence: All hail Calvin Scott?
By
Arnabas,
Posted on: 2010-03-18 11:02 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
The part where the coldblooded killer decides to reform because someone doesn't run away from them |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Show me where the logic fails, then.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Oh you rascal, if you only understood the way the human psyche really works. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The part where the coldblooded killer decides to reform because someone doesn't run away from them
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Quote:
This made me laugh so bloody hard....|
Originally Posted by BrandX
*balls like a little baby*
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I assume you meant "bawls", like "cries".
But I am now picturing Bill Z Bubba with "balls like a little baby".
Est sularis oth Mithas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arnabas
This made me laugh so bloody hard....
I assume you meant "bawls", like "cries". But I am now picturing Bill Z Bubba with "balls like a little baby". |
Aaaaaand....
sig'd.
Quote:
I seem to have missed something. I thought that GR had the side-switching stuff on it's own, as well as part of the Praetoria stuff... meaning that existing heroes and villains would have missions that would allow them to switch sides without ever having to go through the Praetoria arcs.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
I have said this a couple of times already, but I am not talking about Praetorian characters. Yes, your comments about someone born and raised in Praetoria are 100% true, but the issue I had from day one concerns the Primal earth Heroes who come to Praetoria to engage in the side switching mechanic.
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If there was a statement somewhere that existing characters have to go to Praetorian earth to switch sides, I didn't see it. And it just doesn't even make sense.
Est sularis oth Mithas
Quote:
I seem to recall this being the case as well. Last I recall, the Praetoria content was mainly intended to be a new low-game experience that allowed the characters created THERE to choose whether they became a hero or villain through their own actions, while the stuff that existing characters would use to switch sides would be entirely out of Praetoria (through some system that the Devs are understandably keeping quiet about). If Praetoria is involved in changing the alignment of existing characters, I haven't heard as much from any source.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I seem to have missed something. I thought that GR had the side-switching stuff on it's own, as well as part of the Praetoria stuff... meaning that existing heroes and villains would have missions that would allow them to switch sides without ever having to go through the Praetoria arcs.
If there was a statement somewhere that existing characters have to go to Praetorian earth to switch sides, I didn't see it. And it just doesn't even make sense. |
EDIT: Oh, and to bring this back to the original topic, I definitely like the morally gray aspects of this version of Calvin Scott. He wants to take down Emperor Cole, which seems well and good, but he seems to be willing to do anything to do so as long as it gets him his wife back. I'd certainly be uncomfortable working under someone like that, even if he is the best chance for the Resistance.
My arcs:
Title: Blitzkrieg
Arc ID: 3416
Title: Soldiers of Fortune
Arc ID: 4431
Title: The Rikti Accession
Arc ID: 278757
Every time I see info on the Resistance, THIS comes to mind... (SFW)
It just works.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
Quote:
You must have missed the discussion where not every player character in the Rogue Isles is a cold blooded killer. The people of the Rogue Isles are as varied as those in Paragon.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The part where the coldblooded killer decides to reform because someone doesn't run away from them
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But you're right, only a few will be willing to take the final step to being a Hero simply because they are no longer looked upon with fear. A few more will take that step when they realize that being one of the good guys means they don't have to sleep in a cave, or in the sewers. A few more will realize that being the 'good guys' is the greatest scam ever, some of these people actually give you money regularly and sometimes you don't even have to worry about being shot at. A few more will be shown kindness for the first time in their lives, and the shock of it will make them question what they've been doing with their lives. A few more will realize that the good guys really ARE the winning side.
And a few will be evil enough that they will never take that step. And they are the Cold blooded killers.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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No, those are the hotblooded killers.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
And a few will be evil enough that they will never take that step. And they are the Cold blooded killers.
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The coldblooded killers have been in Paragon City from the start
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
The fun thing about the Praetorian government is, I cannot see many of my villains joining it.
I think it's Abrahms who keeps saying that Tyrant is a bigger villain than Lord Recluse simply because his rule is much more Orwellian, and he's probably right, but what does that mean to me as a villain? Many already feel that City of Villains is more like City of Mercenaries/Lackeys, but the truth is, in Praetoria, you'll always be a lackey to Emperor Cole.
Sure, the Rogue Isles have some rules, basically just the "don't hit an Arbiter" thing, but aside from that, Lord Recluse basically tells you to go out and be evil while doing his best cartoon villain laugh. Hell, you could tell him, to his face, that you plan on dethroning him, and he'd just tell you that you have guts and he likes people with guts.
In Praetoria, you just need to think for a moment that you cannot do anything without Emperor Cole telling you to do it and you'll find a gank squad at your door. The Rogue Isles allow me to be closer to actual villainhood, Praetoria will always require me to be a lackey to the one true villain around.
On Primal Earth I can destroy Paragon City on a bi-weekly basis and in the rare chance that I do get caught, I'll just join the prison raid next Friday and spend some time in my summer home in the Etoile Islands. On Praetorian Earth I am nothing more than part of Tyrant's glorified janitorial squad, little better than the blue Clockwork he employs.
So why would a villain want to join a place where you either have to be an expendable lackey or face the death penalty when Primal Earth offers me so much more?
Quote:
Like this???
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Originally Posted by Noxilicious
Hell, you could tell him, to his face, that you plan on dethroning him, and he'd just tell you that you have guts and he likes people with guts.
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Quote:
Ouch. Can you imagine how uncomfortable 6 to 10 pound balls would be?
| But I am now picturing Bill Z Bubba with "balls like a little baby". |
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Power |
Originally Posted by Noxilicious
So why would a villain want to join a place where you either have to be an expendable lackey or face the death penalty when Primal Earth offers me so much more?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Do you REALLY have any power when you have to obey the whims of a dictator? |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Power
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Well, the choice is to obey the whims of a dictator of an armpit of an island chain and obey the whims of a dictator that rules an entire world. If you're going to obey a dictator you may as well pick the one that gets something done!
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Originally Posted by Westley
Do you REALLY have any power when you have to obey the whims of a dictator?
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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
His whims are.. pretty agreeable if you have enough power. He lets Mother Mayhem steal bodies from innocent and loyal citizens. I gather from that, that as long as you're willing to tow the line, you can probably get away with some pretty heinous abuses of your power. Purely speculative of course, but it looks to me to be a case of absolute power corrupting absolutely. The framework of peace and security puts one in a position of total authority. From total authority, it's easy to get comfortable with excess, and then depravity follows naturally from there. It's a pretty good gig if you're morally compromised anyway. |
Originally Posted by Westley
Do you REALLY have any power when you have to obey the whims of a dictator?
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Besides, I figure my villains could probably topple him if I put their minds to it. But why bother? His value as a figurehead of peace and a deterent to the Hamidon threat would be difficult to replace, and if I am already doing whatever I want with him "in charge", why change things up?
Paragon Unleashed, Unleash Yourself!
I can imagine a lot of goosestepping "Mein Fuhrer!" villains flocking to Tyrant. The more independent minded ones would seek out to join the Resistance instead.
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According to one pannel at Hero Con, the Praetorian police Department have "parades - lots of parades".
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Originally Posted by Scythus
I can imagine a lot of goosestepping "Mein Fuhrer!" villains flocking to Tyrant.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Actually, that wouldn't surprise me either. Thing is, that will only last until the Resistance starts talking about the horrible things that Tyrant and his crew do on a fairly regular basis. At some point, some Villains are going to sit back and think "Damn, that guy certainly sounds like he knows how to have a good time." Of course it will only help matters when turning traitor to the Resistance would involve handing over Resistance cell (of course, I doubt the players would get that option, but we're talking story time here) especially when their arch nemesis Cape-Guy has just joined up.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
I can imagine a lot of goosestepping "Mein Fuhrer!" villains flocking to Tyrant. The more independent minded ones would seek out to join the Resistance instead.
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Oh, and Golden Girl? I did finally find a comic book character that would agree with the Mind Police, genetic cleansing, and punishment before the crime style of 'crime-fighting' which Tyrant uses. Meet Lock-Up. One of Batman's villains. So yeah, yet again, the only people interested in teaming with Tyrant are the bad guys.
EDIT: MORE evidence! Let's say you're right, and Tyrant is to lead people to darkness, and The Resistance to the light. Why would the character ever leave Praetoria? If he's just become a Villain, he's already in a pretty cushy position of power where he can abuse his new found love of Evil, and there hasn't been a single Player Character in the history of the game self-motivated to ever be a threat to Tyrant's Rule, so he's set for life.
And for the newly reformed Hero in the Resistance? Well, I highly doubt they are EVER going to have the Resistance win. Dethroning Tyrant means the story for their first paid expansion is over. For everyone. Until that time, leaving the Resistance just to go back home would be abandoning people in a desperate time of need.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
My characters won't be in the Resistance to hail Calvin Scott. My characters will be banding with this group of freedom fighters for their own reasons; Assisting Belladonna Vetrano, and having a group of rebels that they can use to take down their PPD sister.
!
Quote:
Try this |
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Actually, that wouldn't surprise me either. Thing is, that will only last until the Resistance starts talking about the horrible things that Tyrant and his crew do on a fairly regular basis. At some point, some Villains are going to sit back and think "Damn, that guy certainly sounds like he knows how to have a good time." Of course it will only help matters when turning traitor to the Resistance would involve handing over Resistance cell (of course, I doubt the players would get that option, but we're talking story time here) especially when their arch nemesis Cape-Guy has just joined up.
Oh, and Golden Girl? I did finally find a comic book character that would agree with the Mind Police, genetic cleansing, and punishment before the crime style of 'crime-fighting' which Tyrant uses. Meet Lock-Up. One of Batman's villains. So yeah, yet again, the only people interested in teaming with Tyrant are the bad guys. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_Red_Son
And a quote from it:
Quote:
| "By contrast, the Superman-commanded (Global) Soviet Union has grown without resorting to war, and has virtually eliminated poverty, disease and the like. The cost of this progress is an increased infringement on individual liberties, and Superman is fast becoming a Big Brother-like figure. A brain surgery technique that turns dissidents into obedient drones, or "Superman Robots" is in use." |
It might also be worth remembering that "Red Son" was mentioned at Hero Con as one of the influences on GR
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
OBJECTION! The prosecution is confusing conjecture with evidence.
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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
Actually, that wouldn't surprise me either. Thing is, that will only last until the Resistance starts talking about the horrible things that Tyrant and his crew do on a fairly regular basis. At some point, some Villains are going to sit back and think "Damn, that guy certainly sounds like he knows how to have a good time." Of course it will only help matters when turning traitor to the Resistance would involve handing over Resistance cell (of course, I doubt the players would get that option, but we're talking story time here) especially when their arch nemesis Cape-Guy has just joined up.
Oh, and Golden Girl? I did finally find a comic book character that would agree with the Mind Police, genetic cleansing, and punishment before the crime style of 'crime-fighting' which Tyrant uses. Meet Lock-Up. One of Batman's villains. So yeah, yet again, the only people interested in teaming with Tyrant are the bad guys. EDIT: MORE evidence! Let's say you're right, and Tyrant is to lead people to darkness, and The Resistance to the light. Why would the character ever leave Praetoria? If he's just become a Villain, he's already in a pretty cushy position of power where he can abuse his new found love of Evil, and there hasn't been a single Player Character in the history of the game self-motivated to ever be a threat to Tyrant's Rule, so he's set for life. And for the newly reformed Hero in the Resistance? Well, I highly doubt they are EVER going to have the Resistance win. Dethroning Tyrant means the story for their first paid expansion is over. For everyone. Until that time, leaving the Resistance just to go back home would be abandoning people in a desperate time of need. |
Quote:
It's not the only Elseworlds where Superman is cast as the bad guy. Actually, reading further, I'm not seeing much difference between this Superman, and Tyrant whom you yourself trumpet as Evil.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Try this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_Red_Son And a quote from it: It might also be worth remembering that "Red Son" was mentioned at Hero Con as one of the influences on GR |
@Scythus: You're right, my bad, but still a point that should be considered.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
...
"All that work! I take their souls! And the people, they love me for it! Then...then...their souls are returned and I have to do it all over again."
*balls like a little baby*
*psychiatrist pats shoulder*
"There there, it's okay. You're at least doing a good deed."
*rips out soul from psychiatrist, body drops to the the ground, Bill smiles, body vanishes, the doctor walks in*
"Now Bill, did that make you feel better?"
*sniffles* "Yes." *sobs like a little baby*
...
...and if so, did it go something like that?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection