Quote:
It's not possible to make an Empathy Defender with no heals. At level one you're given the option between Healing Aura and Heal Other for your primary power pick.|
Originally Posted by Organica
I suspect if the people here who say "allow any concept build on a team" were to make an empathy defender with NO heals and join PuGs, they'd find quite a few that were not happy with that build. Although it might be fun to try. ^_^ (You'd have to use "Doctor" or "Nurse" or some sort of Healzor name just for added stupidity.)
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That said, I've got an Empathy Defender whose healing powers are (1) Healing Aura, and (2) Vengeance*. (3) if you count Resurrect as a heal.
Oh, and he's /Energy Blast
He's quite fun to play, but I must admit I rarely play on PuGs with him. But then, I rarely play on PuGs with any of my characters, but that's just the game experience I prefer.
* My Radiation Emission/Dark Blast Defender doesn't have Radiant Aura (or Life Drain for that matter, but I don't think self-heals count for healing badges). I got the Medic badge using Vengeace
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Am I the only one that's fixated on the "...when I'm solo this build can tank..." part?
Feels like that bit Lewis Black talks about "...if it weren't for my horse I wouldn't have spent that year in college..."
force fields is a weird set to begin with. Only half of it is even useful and judging by this thread no two people can agree on which half.
Let's try a different scenario:
The OP is trying to form an ITF team but is struggling to fill the slots.
FF Defender says "I'll join"
OP forms team, TF starts.
Build: Irrelevant
Thelonious Monk
Quote:
This... is pure gold!|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Let's try a different scenario:
The OP is trying to form an ITF team but is struggling to fill the slots. FF Defender says "I'll join" OP forms team, TF starts. Build: Irrelevant |
All my toons have some kind of Kay factor... that means that they have their own internal consistence (sometimes yicky, some times yummi), but they all are very playable.
I dont expect the same from everyone. If, for some reason, someone makes a strange and ineffective build, i will only make a note saying that and move along.
I dont expect people doing what they are supposed to do. After all, its clear that I should be nominated The Empress of the World, and pretty and strong guys wearing thongs would be launching thenselves in front of me so I never had to touch the floor with my feet... Maybe someday... Right now I will play along with what I get... ^_^
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
Quote:
What server are you playing on that you're having trouble putting an ITF together?
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Let's try a different scenario:
The OP is trying to form an ITF team but is struggling to fill the slots. FF Defender says "I'll join" OP forms team, TF starts. Build: Irrelevant |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paladin_Musashi
What server are you playing on that you're having trouble putting an ITF together?
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Defiant, 2.15 am GMT
My point there was simply to illustrate that the build is less important than the body.
Thelonious Monk
Impressive amounts of non understanding.
A few points of clarification for the eternally blind
[*] I was not the leader, ergo, I was not 'pulling together' an ITF[*] The FF Defender was already on the team when I joined[*] The deaths thing was due NOT ONLY to a significantly less than expected amount of defense, BUT ALSO because there was no effective leadership. Just a few short directions makes the world of difference, and there were no directions given, so people just did whatever they wanted. Teams don't act like teams, then things fall apart, fast, (Especially for thoughtless scrappers who think they are unkillable).[*] the whole argument about 'let people play how they like to play' is screwy when you're talking about a task force at L50; some people have roles that the Archetype offers which are far too valuable to the team for players to be selfish about "oh, I don't get to benefit from Speed Boost" says the kin, and drops it from their build -- instant team gimpage.
But most importantly:
[*] As ever, arguing on the official forum is a -complete- waste of effort.
Back to playing the game as best I can, with the functional, the dysfunctional, and the hypercynical self-serving "my level and above only" louses which infest this great game.
Ex
--
Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
--
Speed Boost is not a necessity for anything...
Quote:
Hijack: I love seeing "Only join teams above my level" on a 50.
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Originally Posted by Part_Troll
self-serving "my level and above only" louses which infest this great game.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Trite indeed.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
Oh look, another thread from another poster telling others what powers they must take since they joined a team. How original.
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------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
I have no problem with unusual builds. I have no problem teaming with or doing TFs with unusual builds. I've even made a few unusual builds myself.
However...
If someone has an unusual build (and they know it's unusual), then I feel they should warn the team of this when they join, and if on a TF, again just before it starts.
Most people will be fine with it as long as they're informed. Not everyone thinks to check powers, and in co-op zones not everyone can. If someone knows they have an odd build that may affect the team and they don't tell the team about it ahead of time, they shouldn't be surprised if some people on the team get upset when they find out.
Tech support IRL, CLR/DRU/MED/WHM/PRI/DEF. Hmm, I sense a pattern...
S 80% E 80% A 40% K 0%
A few of my alts
Am I the only one who noticed the OP's name is Part_Troll?
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
Quote:
Well anyone can "tank" solo.|
Originally Posted by MrYukon
Am I the only one that's fixated on the "...when I'm solo this build can tank..." part?
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It's not like anyone else is going to steal your aggro. Surviving aggro is essential to tanking, but equally essential is holding the aggro when others are doing things that could steal it. Unless you can keep aggro from your teammates what you're doing is surviving, not tanking.
Every single one of my alts can survive solo aggro, but most of my non-Tankers cannot hold aggro when others try to steal it. Though some of my Dark Miasmists do fairly well by combining damage, soft controls and massive debuffing.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
ANY dev created content is completable with ANY team makeup and ANY combination of builds, powersets, and powers.|
Originally Posted by Part_Troll
the whole argument about 'let people play how they like to play' is screwy when you're talking about a task force at L50; some people have roles that the Archetype offers which are far too valuable to the team for players to be selfish about "oh, I don't get to benefit from Speed Boost" says the kin, and drops it from their build -- instant team gimpage.
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The only difference is what strategy you have to adopt to accomplish it. Unless you just simply don't like to think, that is.
Quote:
I agree that you can make a viable team with any combination of powersets but not so much builds. It is perfectly possible to make builds that have a lot of holes in them. You hope that your teammates will cover those holes but if they are also making builds with holes in them then you can have a very bad team (depending on what holes there are).|
Originally Posted by Westley
ANY dev created content is completable with ANY team makeup and ANY combination of builds, powersets, and powers.
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The obvious example is damage. At the end of the day it doesn't matter how many buffs or debuffs you have you NEED damage. Every AT can be a damage dealer and every character should be able to deal damage (how much depends on the AT obviously). If you make a character who can't deal damage then you are relying on your teammates to deal damage. That can work... until the day you find yourself teamed with 7 other people who are relying on thier teammates to deal damage for them as well.
Quote:
Strange how I've been on teams that could not complete the objective no matter what strategy we might devise. Sometimes a team can't do enough damage and can't stay alive long enough to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.|
Originally Posted by Westley
ANY dev created content is completable with ANY team makeup and ANY combination of builds, powersets, and powers.
The only difference is what strategy you have to adopt to accomplish it. Unless you just simply don't like to think, that is. |
Mind you, I agree that no content *needs* specific ATs or builds to succeed, and that intelligent play trumps a good build nearly 100% of the time, but you can certainly assemble teams for some of the more difficult challenges in the game which have zero chance of pulling it off, due to gimped builds.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Quote:
If you feel that you've been misunderstood by all and sundry then perhaps it's your original post that's problematic, not everyone else's understanding of it.
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Originally Posted by Part_Troll
Impressive amounts of non understanding.
A few points of clarification for the eternally blind[*] I was not the leader, ergo, I was not 'pulling together' an ITF[*] The FF Defender was already on the team when I joined[*] The deaths thing was due NOT ONLY to a significantly less than expected amount of defense, BUT ALSO because there was no effective leadership. Just a few short directions makes the world of difference, and there were no directions given, so people just did whatever they wanted. Teams don't act like teams, then things fall apart, fast, (Especially for thoughtless scrappers who think they are unkillable).[*] the whole argument about 'let people play how they like to play' is screwy when you're talking about a task force at L50; some people have roles that the Archetype offers which are far too valuable to the team for players to be selfish about "oh, I don't get to benefit from Speed Boost" says the kin, and drops it from their build -- instant team gimpage. But most importantly:[*] As ever, arguing on the official forum is a -complete- waste of effort. Back to playing the game as best I can, with the functional, the dysfunctional, and the hypercynical self-serving "my level and above only" louses which infest this great game. Ex |
Thelonious Monk
Quote:
Ok, re-write that as 'RP/Experimental' builds, then.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
Come play with me, read my bios and look at my costumes. My global is @Laevateinn and I'm on Virtue server. My various concept builds can solo AVs, solo Pylons, solo Vanguard Sword at +4/x8, farm and ghost missions. None of this second build stuff. The entire functional build/"concept" build idea is based on the false dichotomy that reducing performance magically improves your concept.
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I think the arguement is less about the build and wether the player is actually being a help to the team or a hinderance. A question which is much more fair, imo
And you come play Union EU side
I can't do any of that stuff, but I'm happy with my Bots/traps namesake steamrollering x5 missions without issues.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I kind of like the idea of a team of misfit heroes and villians trying to do the ITF, where all of them have but one or two of their most important powers, if any at all!
I wonder how many hours it would take to complete it.
Quote:
Most assuredly not. However, most of the folks in this thread are used to him. It is his usual MO, actually. Every so often, he has a team that hits a rough spot, with varying grades of roughness, he comes to the boards to vent about it, and people swarm in to tell him whatever the problem is, it's all his fault. Repeat as needed.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
Am I the only one who noticed the OP's name is Part_Troll?
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As far as the actual topic goes, I'm counting myself among those that have no problem with playing how you want, but would like a warning on at least TF teams when someone is bringing something like a Tank without Mez protection, a Stalker without Assassin Strike, or a Force Fielder without Force Fields. Preferably BEFORE the TF actually starts so the rest of the team can adjust to accommodate said character.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
Quote:
Yes, any team can complete any dev created contest as long as the players are pulling their weight. Imagine an all defender team on an ITF with no buffs or debuffs and the heals were sporadic. Will they be successful? Not a chance.| ANY dev created content is completable with ANY team makeup and ANY combination of builds, powersets, and powers. |
Tauntless tanks, buff/debuffless defenders, "pure" healers, blasters that don't blast, scrappers that don't scrap, masterminds without pets, all four travel power anythings, etc....
Inflict your gimped concept build on players who know what they are getting. Having no buffs or debuffs is not compensated by a class that only does 55% of blaster damage. Blastfenders are gimped. I wouldn't want one on my team either.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ok, re-write that as 'RP/Experimental' builds, then.
I think the arguement is less about the build and wether the player is actually being a help to the team or a hinderance. A question which is much more fair, imo And you come play Union EU side I can't do any of that stuff, but I'm happy with my Bots/traps namesake steamrollering x5 missions without issues. |
I may not be understanding your P.O.V. here but I'm just trying to clarify - are you saying there are deliberately "gimped" builds?
I've never encountered one of those - in my experience you can go left-field with a toon and maybe you will sacrifice one of it's main "characteristics" for a different effect, but it's very rare that a toon gets broken because of that.
Leave out one power or series of powers and you get other powers in substitution - it's not like you cannot take powers... you can end up with something weird I agree, but it can still contribute ably.
I've been on teams that just can't finish a TF, because the team make-up and/or strategy is wrong, but I don't think I've ever, in the four years I've been playing - had to say "We failed because the X never did Y."
The converse of that is some people get fixated on certain powers - I was once offed a million inf BI (before Inventions) to team with a stone tank on my Kin and keep him SBd. I declined, cuz that's not what a kin is all about to me but - and I've hated playing kins because everyone wants SB and FS andnothing else.
The real proof of the pudding is that if someone can make a build that will solo a TF, then a team of 6+ should be more than adequate, unless they are pratting about big style (which I readily admit can happen.)
Odd builds are not the issue here I suspect. The real issue is that there's no team play, and a lack of open-mindedness, which is sadly often prevalent in PUGs.
Thelonious Monk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
I kind of like the idea of a team of misfit heroes and villians trying to do the ITF, where all of them have but one or two of their most important powers, if any at all!
I wonder how many hours it would take to complete it. |
Me too!
Thelonious Monk
I rarely play defenders and when I do I absolutely refuse to take powers which require targeting and affecting other players.
The reason? I like playing defeat the villains, not playing buff whackamole with the other team members.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
+1 for YOUR cluelessness.