No hablo "FF Defender" ...

There's no reasoning with build nazi's.

Really? OK, since you like challenges, show us your Master ITF run with the following team makeup of concept & RP builds.

Team Leader: You, with whatever character you choose.
Brute: Any primary/SR secondary. Concept build that takes all attacks, and only the tier one SR power.
Defender: LOLHealorz. Empathy/Dark. Only heals from Empathy, no buffs. Plus medicine pool for extra healing goodness, only tier one Dark Blast, which can't be used since the player is RP'ing a pacifist.
Tank: Invulnerability/EM. Stamina-less build, so takes no toggle powers at all, only passive defense powers.
Masterminds (2): Petless Ninja/Pain.

I look forward to your results...

Well said. Players can choose to play whatever kind of character they want. I have no problems with that. Do what is fun for you. But folks shouldn't get all self-righteous and defensive when someone doesn't want that kind of player on their team, especially for something like a TF, where generally 8 players will be together for an hour or two, or even more.

It's not just my expectations as a team leader that are a factor here. The expectations of the other players on the team need to be taken into consideration as well. If I'm forming a TF team, I want the team to have a fun & relaxing experience. The bubbler that doesn't bubble, or the LOLHealorz, or the petless MM, or the rad defender with no debuffs, is only an impediment to that goal.

....which isn't to have fun?

Or more accurately, you would try to do it, except you are smart enough to realize it would be an excruciatingly painful experience, and only ultimately result in failure.

Thanks for proving my point..

"Offender" doesn't mean "Ignore primary". It means "Stop ignoring secondary".

They weren't ignoring them, they just skipped the ones that don't help them blast.

Is he limited to just himself and the 3 other toons, or can he fill out the team with 4 decently built toons, that can pick up the slack?

I have no problem with people having their weird builds.

I've team with them all. I just have to wonder, why people will take a power then not use it?

Taking a recent thread of mine, they have SB, and not using when all the team is bottomed out on END from an END sapping AV.

Just the other night, I was running an ITF, using my Ice/Ice Tanker. I send the /KIN a tell saying "I know keeping a full team SB'ed all the time is a pain, and he could just skip over me, as SBing wouldn't make that much more of a difference on me."

My END was taken care of, and SB would allow me to use Frozen Aura more often, but things weren't usually dying because of my tank

I've teamed with KINs who skipped SB entirely. No problem. They don't have it, so no worry about it to begin with.

However, if you're skipping set defining powers, I do agree something should be said to a team before hand.

When I see a Sonic Resonance, Thermal, Cold Dominance, or Force Field, I'm usually inviting them (at least on TFs...normal missions *shrug*...on TFs, I'm trying to put together a team that can do it at a reasonable speed, without alot of debt, because alot of people will quit a TF if it's not fast enough or they're dieing to much, because they can't handle what little debt you get now a days) with the intention of increased safetly for the team with use of the shields.

More so on an ITF, as face it, the ITF isn't a control friendly TF, and I've seen alot more Trollers skip those shields than any of the other Buff/Debuff classes, because "I'm a troller! Not a Defender!"

Corruptors would fall in second with this "My Primary is blasting!"

Defenders usually end up a distance 3rd "I'm an Offender"

With MMs not making up a clear picture, as even when I play redside, I never seem to team with them as often, once I get into the higher levels, and in the early levels, they haven't had time to pick all their powers. I've also teamed with maybe a handful of FF or Thermal MM's anyways.

I've even invited the whacky builds.

I think what the OP is trying to get at, is it's good for the team and most importantly for the team leader, to at least know what they're inviting along before hand, when they're expecting something else.

I remember once, inviting a RAD/ Defender, thinking okay, debuffs covered, to get the "I'm built to be a healer" after the TF started.

AM, Healing Aura, Aid Other, Aid Self, none of the debuffs. :/

Team exactly as specified. 6 players, the minimum to start the ITF. No fillers.

Umm.. Yeah. That would've been an instakick for me.

I could put up with concept builds, but I really don't understand the petless MM. The no speed boost Kin? Dude got SICK AND TIRED of having to SB the team every 20 seconds, probably. Long as he didn't skip Fulcrum Shift: now that would be really dumb...that's why I sorta want to make a DP/Kin corr when GR's special edition comes up for sale but at the same time I know I'd hatehatehate it because they're expected to be nothing but buffbots for the brutes. Screw dat, i'd go Trick Arrow first and then I don't have anything to buff nobody with. Glue and oil, glue and oil!

The petless MM is ignoring the defining aspect of the AT just so you can have a few really poor quality Pulse Rifle Blasts, though--I don't even see how it could function without a team. But in my experience teams only want an MM slightly more than they want Stalkers but would much prefer MOAR DAMAGE or corrs or doms to either AT. But at least no more petless Thug MMs now that DP is in. I expect Pulse Rifles to be proliferated eventually and be some kind of half AR half energy set, and then these petless abominations will be done for.

-edit

You realize, Demon Summoning is the only way people will be able to get whips, right?

That's not true. It's more correct to say that people need at least a MINIMALLY competent build. I would say that if the majority of players take and USE their sets principal powers, you'll do fine.

Wait, says who?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Fine examples all, especially the emp who's using medicine instead of their own personal heal power, lol!!! I don't mind if people shift priorities, but a really bad build indicates a dumb player, which is what you're really trying to avoid when you build a team.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Depending on build (Thugs and Robotics especially), and particularly since Psionic Assault is no longer ridonkulous, MMs are tankmages. They can deal a large amount of damage, and they can take tons of damage. Plus, they have buffs/debuffs. If anyone is skipping over MMs, it's more likely that they don't want the lag of the pets on screen than because MMs aren't good. Because even with a poor (non-petless) build, MMs are top-tier, if not best.

MMs won't solo AVs and GMs which deal large amounts of AoE damage very frequently, because the AoE will catch all of the pets at once, which is a problem (thus, MMs soloing AoE AV/GMs depends more on player skill coordinating the pets than it does on build)*. But on a team or facing less/less potent AoE, MMs are gods.

* For an example, look at the majority of MM players who cry when given a mission with Demolitionists. If you don't have fairly fine control over your pets, the Demolitionists will tear the pets apart. Apply that problem to an AV, and multiply it.
On the other hand, my Thugs/Dark MM has soloed +1/x3 spawns of Malta while I was AFK (ambushes), and the only pet that died was Dark Servant, and that was because his timer ran out rather than because he was actually killed.

It's unlikely that whips will be given to anyone but MMs at launch. After all, MMs only need 3 attacks, while a Blast or Assault set would need 7 or 8. The whips may be proliferated at some point in the future, but not at launch.

My Bots/FF MM has all of the decent powers from his build, yet for giggles, has "Petless Trick Arrow" in his search comments.

Have you heard anything about GR giving a Whip Power set? I know I haven't.

Have you heard about Demon Summoning having a whip attack? Yup. LONG TIME AGO.

Sooo...how else is one to play a whip user, outside of Demon Summoning?