Go to Redside.
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-02-08 05:15 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Longbow.|
Originally Posted by Spazztastics
Redside; you are a villain in cities populated by other villains and you fight against these other villains o.O. How often do you take on a hero when you play as red? Almost never...
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| You don't fight any hero nemesis. |
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| You don't scheme anything big and sinister against Paragon City and it's inhibitants. All you do is cowering in the Rogue Islands wiping the arachnos b*** while watching the brown and the grey colors, running around in a city that looks like it's lived through the II World War inhabited by millions of npc villains doing just the same thing you do: nothing.. |
I really hate Longbow, I really do. I typically call them 'condomheads' or 'Candy Canes' depending on the character i'm on.
Did I mention that I hate Longbow? That grenade they have is annnnnoying. YES. FLOOR YO' DEF and RESISTANCE. FOR SWEET JUSTICE.
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Even the other 7 people on team taking down Recluse?|
Originally Posted by Scythus
You're the Destined One. The one that will bring about Lord Recluse's victory. All of those other villains will remain at the mediocre status they've always retained. Yourself? Your name will become legend.
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Maybe that's one of my redside off-putters. It never seemed right to be the Big Bad, but need 7 other people to take down one of Recluse's lackeys. Or to be the lackey.
Point me in the direction of the middle ground and I'll give it a try.
Being Arachnos's underling horked me off pretty badly. My first 50 villain took Scirocco as her patron and the patron arc was just infuriating. At least some of the other arcs give you a clear motivation for changing sides, but with Scirocco you're on what has all appearances of being the winning side and are suddenly given no choice but to sabotage it because Lord Recluse's arbiter said scary things to you.
That's not City of Villains, that's City of Sniveling Lackey.
..oh, and tank herding isn't for safety most of the time. It's to get AoEs nice and target-capped. If the tanker takes longer doing it than it would take to just knock the guys over, he's doing it wrong, but that doesn't mean that getting the enemies into nice clumps is inherently a stupid thing for tankers to do.
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That's why I don't.
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Originally Posted by Balefire_Djinn
Silas, if you are waiting for some herding tank to guide you on Blueside content,......
you're doing it wrong.... |
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
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I can think of much loftier goals than being an accessory to Recluse's victory. Even if I had no goals of my own, Recluse is not a badass archvillain like Tyrant or Nemesis; he's a wannabe dictator of a tiny 2nd-world nation with an inferiority complex the size of the giant tower he hides in.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
You're the Destined One. The one that will bring about Lord Recluse's victory. All of those other villains will remain at the mediocre status they've always retained. Yourself? Your name will become legend.
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[Spoiler Alert!] Of course, for those who have played the arcs, the truth is even worse than that. You spend 45+ levels as the fall guy who lets Recluse win without suffering a Pyrrhic victory, then you do your final Patron arc to be elevated to the status of valuable minion. At this point, he enlists you to help with what turns out to be a ***** size competition (the goal of the LRSF being to "publicly humiliate Statesman," which probably doesn't bother him much and which has no effect on anyone else, including Recluse). If you succeed--which you must do by various roundabout means involving stolen technology and literally asking for permission from the Freedom Phalanx--you are then awarded "Servant of Recluse" status, which apparently is the zenith of your career as far as the canon story is concerned.
Compare this to heroside: Save the city umpteen times, save the world umpteen times, save a bunch of other dimensions, then save "a thousand worlds" (entire dimensions) at once. Then you, too, beat the Freedom Phalanx (Praetorians) and at least two versions of Statesman that are stronger than the real one, in the process rescuing the real Statesman as casually as you might rescue a missing fortune teller. You do this without permission, and without scavenging stolen technology from other groups. Then Statesman sends you to put the kibosh on Lord Recluse's master plan, which you also do without scavenging or permission. You beat him at full strength, unlike CoV players (who must use time travel to snipe him right after he finishes the hardest fight of his career).
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This is just about the only thing I don't like about CoV to be sure. But whatcha gonna do?|
Originally Posted by Teeth
I can think of much loftier goals than being an accessory to Recluse's victory. Even if I had no goals of my own, Recluse is not a badass archvillain like Tyrant or Nemesis; he's a wannabe dictator of a tiny 2nd-world nation with an inferiority complex the size of the giant tower he hides in.
[Spoiler Alert!] Of course, for those who have played the arcs, the truth is even worse than that. You spend 45+ levels as the fall guy who lets Recluse win without suffering a Pyrrhic victory, then you do your final Patron arc to be elevated to the status of valuable minion. At this point, he enlists you to help with what turns out to be a ***** size competition (the goal of the LRSF being to "publicly humiliate Statesman," which probably doesn't bother him much and which has no effect on anyone else, including Recluse). If you succeed--which you must do by various roundabout means involving stolen technology and literally asking for permission from the Freedom Phalanx--you are then awarded "Servant of Recluse" status, which apparently is the zenith of your career as far as the canon story is concerned. Compare this to heroside: Save the city umpteen times, save the world umpteen times, save a bunch of other dimensions, then save "a thousand worlds" (entire dimensions) at once. Then you, too, beat the Freedom Phalanx (Praetorians) and at least two versions of Statesman that are stronger than the real one, in the process rescuing the real Statesman as casually as you might rescue a missing fortune teller. You do this without permission, and without scavenging stolen technology from other groups. Then Statesman sends you to put the kibosh on Lord Recluse's master plan, which you also do without scavenging or permission. You beat him at full strength, unlike CoV players (who must use time travel to snipe him right after he finishes the hardest fight of his career). |
And
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Originally Posted by Teeth
...what turns out to be a ***** size competition...
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Longbows are not super heroes. They are a recruited super specialized task force who helps the super heroes bring in villains to justice. Longbows are the Paragon Cities Arachno soldiers, their counterpart. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Longbow.
You're the Destined One. The one that will bring about Lord Recluse's victory. All of those other villains will remain at the mediocre status they've always retained. Yourself? Your name will become legend. |
As a villain character you never get to become a super villain. You are always a lackey of Recluse, not a villain who stands on his on feet seeking revenge upon those who for example; bullied you in school or rejected you and made you into a laughing matter when you tried to make a career as a successful scientist.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
The one that will bring about Lord Recluse's victory
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Now, were you truely a super villain you would begin with either killing or imprison Recluse's sorry sweet a** in a block of ice somewhere on the north pole, and when that unintelligent idiot (yes ofc you are smarter then him, you are a friggin super villain!) is out of your way you would rule the isles with an iron hand and start plotting on how you will conquer Paragon City.
Ofc, that last part wouldn't work in a MMO. But my point is that in CoV you are from lvl 1-50 just a mere thug working for a guy who is to incompetent to do anything by himself. And instead of putting him out of his misery and save both Recluse's and your time you choose to continue to wipe his b*** for him. Or you go with Burke and that' just the same story. Neither the path you will never become anything greater then a simple thug.
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Probably finish off my Archery/Energy Blaster, then go back to the Dark/Ice Defender I started. I might do an Ice Tank first, but having a Psi hole annoys me. With school and such, that will all most likely last me until I can transfer my Widow blueside. I might roll a Dom in Praetoria at that point.
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Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
This is just about the only thing I don't like about CoV to be sure. But whatcha gonna do?
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Haven't really teamed with any herders in years. I always wonder what spiffy anecdotal evidence people have for saying some Tanker was a prima donna and wanted to herd, as I haven't teamed with one... in ages, if ever. Nor do I hear anyone advocating herding in the Tanker section of the forums, unless you mean trying to clump mobs up a bit more for the AOEs, which is never a bad thing.|
Originally Posted by Silas
That's why I don't.
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I do pull on my Tankers from time to time, but that's mostly on Master's runs when we'll be facing about 4 mob groups at once, otherwise.
At any rate, threads like this are hilarious. There are good and bad players both sides, and same for content. Play and enjoy what you like.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
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Go back to your cuddly collectivist circle jerk, blue-boy. If the Red market is crap it's because you're a crap marketeer. Redside market has a glut of opportunity for those willing to exploit those opportunities. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Oh boy. So much wrong in so little space. But if you want to put social metaphors on the game, its a test of character and you failed.
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The Rogue Isles are the deep end of the genepool. Not my fault some people can't swim.
TV 4-ever!!!
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I'd love some of bluesides awesome epic pools and merit numbers. I don't agree that blueside has more of an opportunity for casual players however. A casual player can easily make 500mil in less than 2 days just from SFs, lgtfs, ITfs, redside. Supply is much less redside market for high-end recipes and salvage. The demand is also fairly high for these items so its much easier to turn a large profit simply by selling recipes you purchase through merits.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I've tried redside for awhile now (50 Corr, 50 Brute (deleted), 33 Brute, 26 Corr) and I find that I still prefer blueside. I enjoy the higher population, brighter scenery, superior epic pools, larger market and greater conceptual freedom. Heroside you at least have some leeway to pretend you're a freelance hero, but redside is more heavy-handed on pushing the project DESTINY thing on you.
I prefer the focused, specialist nature of the blueside ATs. Of their redside counterparts, only Brutes and Corruptors appeal to me. Stalkers do more damage than Scrappers on paper, but fewer AoE attacks means that in an actual team situation their real damage output falls far behind. Masterminds are theoretically the most powerful AT, but being dependent on pets is troublesome on things like speed ITFs and does not mix well with my fast, fluid and highly mobile playstyle. I enjoy tinkering with IOs and playing the market, and most of my characters are blueside where I can draw on the resources of my vast marketeering base. The blueside market has a much larger transaction volume and provides more opportunities for a casual player. The redside market is less active and before AE, it also had the problem that salvage prices were abnormally low, making it hard for a new player to earn money, though this has since been fixed. One area where redside clearly outdoes blue is in storytelling. A lot of contacts are well-written and have personality, starting in the early game with Bocor and Radio. Arcs like High Roller's Last Gamble, The Aeon Conspiracy, Khur'rekt Revenge and Oh, Wretched Man! are Paragon Studio's story team at their finest, when compared to a lot of relatively bland blueside content. On the other hand, I play task forces 90% of the time, and the lack of a way to level up from 15-50 on taskforces redside is a major turnoff. I still enjoy playing redside, I don't meet many incompetents who "need a tank" or "need an emp", since I don't waste time playing with stupid people; birds of a feather flock together. |
THe keyword for redside marketeering is "patients." If you must have instant-gratification, blueside is probably more for you. d;D
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I didn't even mention herding, that was someone else inferring that from my post. |
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Haven't really teamed with any herders in years. I always wonder what spiffy anecdotal evidence people have for saying some Tanker was a prima donna and wanted to herd, as I haven't teamed with one... in ages, if ever. Nor do I hear anyone advocating herding in the Tanker section of the forums, unless you mean trying to clump mobs up a bit more for the AOEs, which is never a bad thing.
I do pull on my Tankers from time to time, but that's mostly on Master's runs when we'll be facing about 4 mob groups at once, otherwise. At any rate, threads like this are hilarious. There are good and bad players both sides, and same for content. Play and enjoy what you like. |
I've not played heroside significantly in a long time so take my view with a grain of salt, maybe its not the case anymore. But I found Tankers in love with their own toughness and insist they lead the team everywhere and anywhere. The whole kind of idea that the team couldn't possibly function without them, etc.
If this kind of thing doesn't happen a lot anymore then I will be a very happy camper come GR.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
This is pretty much my big problem with CoV as a whole. There are just too many points with 'you'd better do this or Arbiter Bob is going to tell on you!' Not to mention every third mission opening pop-up mentioning how great it is that this will curry favor with Arachnos for you. Heroes get to start saving the world around level 20; villains never even really get a glimpse at a chance of conquering it. I should point out, though, that the final patron arcs show you rising up to have an apoctalyptic war against Recluse in the future, and the very end of the arc has him basically go 'Fine, you're your own villain, no longer beholden to me.' I'd much prefer to be my own villain from, oh, level 1, but eh. It's something. Several of my friends have told me that this was one of the coolest moments in the game for them, so maybe I'm just picky or something.|
Originally Posted by Teeth
I can think of much loftier goals than being an accessory to Recluse's victory. Even if I had no goals of my own, Recluse is not a badass archvillain like Tyrant or Nemesis; he's a wannabe dictator of a tiny 2nd-world nation with an inferiority complex the size of the giant tower he hides in.
[Spoiler Alert!] Of course, for those who have played the arcs, the truth is even worse than that. You spend 45+ levels as the fall guy who lets Recluse win without suffering a Pyrrhic victory, then you do your final Patron arc to be elevated to the status of valuable minion. At this point, he enlists you to help with what turns out to be a ***** size competition (the goal of the LRSF being to "publicly humiliate Statesman," which probably doesn't bother him much and which has no effect on anyone else, including Recluse). If you succeed--which you must do by various roundabout means involving stolen technology and literally asking for permission from the Freedom Phalanx--you are then awarded "Servant of Recluse" status, which apparently is the zenith of your career as far as the canon story is concerned. |
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Haven't really teamed with any herders in years. I always wonder what spiffy anecdotal evidence people have for saying some Tanker was a prima donna and wanted to herd, as I haven't teamed with one... in ages, if ever.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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You do get those; sometimes it's someone reacting to his own PUG experiences of blasters who can't handle themselves and don't get that the tank can keep them alive longer, and sometimes it really is just force of MMO habit (tank takes point, DPS fires when aggro is held, healer spams the heals). On the other hand, I don't find it any more annoying than brutes who think they're God's gift to teams and, at the same time, that slowing down for even a moment is an offense too vile for even a villain to contemplate.
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Originally Posted by Silas
I've not played heroside significantly in a long time so take my view with a grain of salt, maybe its not the case anymore. But I found Tankers in love with their own toughness and insist they lead the team everywhere and anywhere. The whole kind of idea that the team couldn't possibly function without them, etc.
If this kind of thing doesn't happen a lot anymore then I will be a very happy camper come GR. |
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You're absolutely right. The keyword for redside marketeering is indeed "patients" as in only mental patients think it's a healthy market.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
THe keyword for redside marketeering is "patients."
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Oh, whats that? You meant patience?
Well, you're right about that. It takes a lot of patience. It's pretty sweet when you hit 15 and bid on some 18 recipe sets. With enough patience you might even buy the whole set by the time your level 25 or so!
You like redside, we get it. You feel all e-thug for making it in the oh so hard world of City of Villains. That still doesn't mean the market is healthy.
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Yep - you seek revenge on those who depowered Darla Mavis, or altered Timothy Raymond, or is Psymon's rival, or cleaned up messes Abyss couldn't handle (I mean - were beneath her). You're always fighting battles for other villains who are too lame to fight their own.|
Originally Posted by Spazztastics
As a villain character you never get to become a super villain. You are always a lackey of Recluse, not a villain who stands on his on feet seeking revenge upon those who for example; bullied you in school or rejected you and made you into a laughing matter when you tried to make a career as a successful scientist.
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In fairness, it has to be tricky to write why your character would have a beef with [insert hero]. It's easier to be reactive ("Stop Villain X!") than proactive.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
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Ah, I'll just leave a buy order in for 15 INF for a circuit board before I log out. By the time I log back in the next day, the market will have corrected, and the CB will be mine cheap.|
Originally Posted by Humility
*shrug* have fun paying 150K for circuit boards because some marketeer thinks it's funny to screw you.
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Marketeers prey on impatience. As long as you aren't all "MUST HAVE IT NAO!" you don't have to pay terribly unaffordable prices for much of anything.
I do about 15 minutes on the market at the end of each play session. It's not uncommon for me to be walking around with a few 100 million in INF just from market profits. From 15 minutes every few days. It ain't that hard.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Originally Posted by Humility
You're absolutely right. The keyword for redside marketeering is indeed "patients" as in only mental patients think it's a healthy market.
Oh, whats that? You meant patience? Well, you're right about that. It takes a lot of patience. It's pretty sweet when you hit 15 and bid on some 18 recipe sets. With enough patience you might even buy the whole set by the time your level 25 or so! You like redside, we get it. You feel all e-thug for making it in the oh so hard world of City of Villains. That still doesn't mean the market is healthy. |
LOL
Tokyo here is your seat _/
Please take it
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That's my hired muscle.|
Originally Posted by ketch
Even the other 7 people on team taking down Recluse?
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Originally Posted by Spazztastics
Longbows are not super heroes.
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| Why the h*** would you want to do that!??? You are a villain so why would you care about what Recluse want!? |
Step Two: Overthrow Recluse.
Step Three: Install self as ruler.
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Eh, it was really early in the morning when I typed that. I'm allowed to have a brain-fart or two.|
Originally Posted by Balefire_Djinn
LOL
Tokyo here is your seat _/ Please take it |
The point is, he knows he's wrong. And because he can't adapt to red-side market (or too lazy to.) He's leaving. WHich is fine. But to come on here and ***** about the villain market because he's too lazy to have the "patience" to low ball for the items he wants at the prices he wants, is just absurd.
Humility, if you have the capacity to fix your problem then fix it. Otherwise, why *****?
That was a nice deflection though. Ya, my spelling...you got me.. d;D
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Because I can't fix it. I can only work around it. There is a difference.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Humility, if you have the capacity to fix your problem then fix it. Otherwise, why *****?
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Totally aside from that, I pay people a monthly fee to fix things like this.
Hell, the whole concept of the GR expansion pretty much admits the devs have no way to fix redside population. Once that is established, the only way to have a healthy market is to merge it with blue.
But accepting that fact is tough once you've taken the internet tough guy stance. Have fun sticking redside where you can be the big fish in a small pool.
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You do realize the sales history is not the actual going price, right? It's just idiots paying too much. Ten to one there are merchants still selling items at the same low prices they always are.
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Originally Posted by Humility
Because I can't fix it. I can only work around it. There is a difference.
Totally aside from that, I pay people a monthly fee to fix things like this. Hell, the whole concept of the GR expansion pretty much admits the devs have no way to fix redside population. Once that is established, the only way to have a healthy market is to merge it with blue. But accepting that fact is tough once you've taken the internet tough guy stance. Have fun sticking redside where you can be the big fish in a small pool. |
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No,no. Don't teach him anything. He just wants to complain. Let him vent.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
You do realize the sales history is not the actual going price, right? It's just idiots paying too much. Ten to one there are merchants still selling items at the same low prices they always are.
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Silas, if you are waiting for some herding tank to guide you on Blueside content,......
you're doing it wrong....