Go to Redside.


Another_Fan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
No,no. Don't teach him anything. He just wants to complain. Let him vent.
Vent? Nah. I've been playing pretty much exclusively blue for a few weeks now and I do have one major complaint. It takes so much longer to sort through what is actually available to purchase for the toons I am leveling. I am quite pleased with the state of play that I am currently experiencing.

It is just providing quite a lot of amusement watching you act superior and e-thug it up about how tough you are surviving the the rough rough world of playing villains, while constantly trying to dodge admitting that the market redside is in a bad state.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
Because I can't fix it. I can only work around it. There is a difference.

Totally aside from that, I pay people a monthly fee to fix things like this.

Hell, the whole concept of the GR expansion pretty much admits the devs have no way to fix redside population. Once that is established, the only way to have a healthy market is to merge it with blue.

But accepting that fact is tough once you've taken the internet tough guy stance. Have fun sticking redside where you can be the big fish in a small pool.

Sweetheart..i'm also a big fish in a big pool. If I can market successfully on redside... how well do you think I do on blueside? come on now.

I'm no internet tough guy. Trust me I've checked. I'm just a normal player that has taken the time to learn the market. Nothing you can't do either.

The market isn't broken. Does redside need more SFs and more content as well as better merit rewards? Most definitely. Will we get these things? Probably not. But it isn't because it's broken or the Devs hate Villainside. They just don't have enough of an incentive to care.

Let me reiterate; "The market isn't broken."


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
Vent? Nah. I've been playing pretty much exclusively blue for a few weeks now and I do have one major complaint. It takes so much longer to sort through what is actually available to purchase for the toons I am leveling. I am quite pleased with the state of play that I am currently experiencing.

It is just providing quite a lot of amusement watching you act superior and e-thug it up about how tough you are surviving the the rough rough world of playing villains, while constantly trying to dodge admitting that the market redside is in a bad state.
Sure, it's in a bad state. It isn't broken though. I can't really claim superiority, but I have evidently adapted to redside market. d;D


 

Posted

Redside Market seems as fine as Blueside Market in my experience. Redside, I noticed, even manages to be slightly cheaper than Blueside.


 

Posted

The red market isn't broken. It simply isn't casual friendly. Not everyone plans their build out 15 levels in advance so they can place bids far enough in advance to actually get the sets they need at the point when they are level appropriate.

It isn't broken. It is just very poorly supplied. It is also so low traffic it is exceedingly easy to manipulate. I know, I've done it just so I can understand it. You seem to just want to fixate on the idea that I fail at playing the market, when you really have no way of knowing one way or the other. I understand how to do it, I just don't enjoy it. My 10 year old also doesn't enjoy it, and he also doesn't enjoy waiting 3+ days for a fun little shiny thing to slot in his powers. Personally... I usually have at least a rough plan in mids so I could place bids 15 levels in advance so I have some chance of filling them... and there are times I have done exactly that.

Bottom line is, it's just not casual friendly. That pretty much describes redside. That right there is your population problem. Less casual high end content, less casual access to the market, less players... coincidence? I think not. WoW is the most casual friendly MMO ever created, and has the highest playerbase by a ridiculous margin.

Succeeding at the market redside is not tough, it simply is not enjoyable, or possible on a time window comparable to blue.

We're just going to have to accept that we want different things from the game.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, my villains are comfortable as long as I'm not trying to buy purple sets or anything, and that is resting on the inf I made previously. I hadn't played since back around the time issue 12 was announced. So issue 11 was what... 2 years ago? There's been considerable inflation since then and I'm still comfortable for casual play without having to really think about inf. Like I said, it's not tough to make inf on the market, just boring.


 

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Originally Posted by Smash_Zone View Post
I think the "better content" he's referring too is actual stories. sure there are fewer, but in the early stages of blueside content, it all just seems like radio missions to me.

"Hey, the hellions stole this thing, could you get it back?"
"Dude, the council are totally recruiting in Steel Canyon, go and defeat some of them."
"Look, I know the Vahzilok in Steel Canyon are level 16, and you're level 10, but I really need you to go defeat some of them. They HAVE to be in Steel Canyon."
"The Clockwork aren't doing anything bad, but I need you to beat up about 10 of them, okay?"
"The Skulls are minding their own business in some warehouse, go and beat them up!"

Sheesh, I absolutely hate early blueside. At least there are coherent stories redside, even if there aren't as many,
red side stories are the best!

The council just stole some device, go beat them up and get it back for the good guys i meant keep it for yourself!


 

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Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
I've somewhat come to grips with the "grittiness" of CoV, but I still wonder why in the heck they make it so hard to get around zones for non-flyers.
ive had no trouble getting around the zones as a teleporter!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
The red market isn't broken. It simply isn't casual friendly. Not everyone plans their build out 15 levels in advance so they can place bids far enough in advance to actually get the sets they need at the point when they are level appropriate.

It isn't broken. It is just very poorly supplied. It is also so low traffic it is exceedingly easy to manipulate. I know, I've done it just so I can understand it. You seem to just want to fixate on the idea that I fail at playing the market, when you really have no way of knowing one way or the other. I understand how to do it, I just don't enjoy it. My 10 year old also doesn't enjoy it, and he also doesn't enjoy waiting 3+ days for a fun little shiny thing to slot in his powers. Personally... I usually have at least a rough plan in mids so I could place bids 15 levels in advance so I have some chance of filling them... and there are times I have done exactly that.

Bottom line is, it's just not casual friendly. That pretty much describes redside. That right there is your population problem. Less casual high end content, less casual access to the market, less players... coincidence? I think not. WoW is the most casual friendly MMO ever created, and has the highest playerbase by a ridiculous margin.

Succeeding at the market redside is not tough, it simply is not enjoyable, or possible on a time window comparable to blue.

We're just going to have to accept that we want different things from the game.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, my villains are comfortable as long as I'm not trying to buy purple sets or anything, and that is resting on the inf I made previously. I hadn't played since back around the time issue 12 was announced. So issue 11 was what... 2 years ago? There's been considerable inflation since then and I'm still comfortable for casual play without having to really think about inf. Like I said, it's not tough to make inf on the market, just boring.
you dont need bids 15 levels in advance.

LIVING TATTOO 150K ZOMG!!!!

*goes into AE*

80 tickets, much better.

circuit boards? gotta be kidding me, Im sitting on like 10 of em because I actually make sure to pick enemies who will drop tech salvage for my newspaper missions.

When things cost alot, they sell for alot too.

I am not a marketeer, I think I hover around 35ish mil, saving up for the big stuff if im not gonna get it with merits.

I can understand where you would find the economy to be terrible if you cant see past the semi in cap.

Com made a great deal of assumptions about tokyo based on a not even one line post, when are you going to let it go and come off of it?

Where do you come off naming yourself humility?

gosh that was a lot, ive never see so much stupidity from one poster before...


 

Posted

After thinking about what doesn't work with the redside plot, it occurred to me what I'd like to see to fix it.

Instead of doing your contacts to gain Arachnos's favor or get an unspecified payoff, you're doing it to get their loyalty - you are planning from day one to take over, and you are bribing, beating or blackmailing people into backing you instead of Lord Recluse when it happens through the story arcs leading up to it. The patron arc has you getting into Lord Recluse's confidence through one of his lieutenants, and the final arcs would have you defeating the lieutenants and Lord Recluse himself, leaving you soundly in charge of Arachnos. There would still need to be an excuse for leaving Lord Recluse alive as a figurehead (maybe so that nobody notices the upheaval and you're free to work on your schemes while Lord Recluse catches assassins' bullets) but I would find that far more villainous and satisfying than kissing Recluse's backside from 1 to 50.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
The red market isn't broken. It simply isn't casual friendly. Not everyone plans their build out 15 levels in advance so they can place bids far enough in advance to actually get the sets they need at the point when they are level appropriate.
Not that actual casuals would bother with sets, anyways, since those require things like research, planning, and using tools like MIDs so that you can see the actual numbers beforehand in order to choose effectively. They tend to stick with TOs, DOs, SOs, and their basic IO versions from recipes that've dropped. They'll also tend to slot haphazardly, based on what they seem to need at the moment, unless they bother to ask in broadcast/local/help.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
Not that actual casuals would bother with sets, anyways, since those require things like research, planning, and using tools like MIDs so that you can see the actual numbers beforehand in order to choose effectively. They tend to stick with TOs, DOs, SOs, and their basic IO versions from recipes that've dropped. They'll also tend to slot haphazardly, based on what they seem to need at the moment, unless they bother to ask in broadcast/local/help.
You're confusing casual with incompetent. I've known plenty of casuals who go and buy a full set (or as much of it as they can find) even if it gives no bonuses really worth having and gives things they don't particularly need (rech in a toggle or similar) just because it is a set and it is neat. Many people like to have something shiny and new for their character every once in a while.


 

Posted

The sad part about villains in this game is that in an MMOs, they can only ever be lackeys. Heroes work perfectly in the context of an MMO because heroes are reactionary by nature. If a villain attacks, you stop them, and by stopping them you maintain the MMO Status Quo. In fact, your victory is predetermined because the Status Quo must remain unchanged. And as far as motivation is concerned? You're a hero, you just do it because it's right.

But the very same Status Quo that is a hero's greatest boon is a villain's greatest curse. Whereas a hero's victories are great because things must remain the same for the world, a villain's victories are either fleeting because Blue Steel just fixes everything ASAP, or you don't win at all. You can never take over or destroy Paragon City because Paragon City must be there for hero players. You can never take over or take down Arachnos because Arachnos must remain there for the villain players (and really, who would want to sit around in Grandville all day, handing out $name Strike Forces?).

City of Villains is a great idea, but it's constrained by the limits that MMOs impose. As a single player game, or a game with a multi-player function like Demons Soul's, it might just be the perfect game, but as the MMO game that it is, City of Villains will sadly have to remain City of Lackeys.

All that said, I still vastly prefer red-side. I don't mind the reddish-brown of the Rogue Isles because I feel it's thematically appropriate, and blue-side has its blueish-grey and I don't feel that's too varied, either. I love the red-side ATs because of the self-sufficiency many have mentioned, simply because it allows me to switch from soloing to teaming to soloing on a whim. I prefer red-side arcs, all lackeyism aside, since you can tell the writers have become more experienced, the arcs (especially end-game) aren't made up of 90% filler missons, and on a personal note I love the EBs or Heroes/AVs at the end because they tend to give a nice climax to these arcs.

As far as the lackeyism is concerned, I admittedly jump through some mental loops. To justify it to myself, I just tell myself I'm not really working for them, I'm just using them as informants. They got info on a good gig going on, and because they're too pathetic to do it themselves, they relay the information to you. They might benefit from your actions, but ultimately most of the infamy goes to you, not the guy who tells you there's stuff.

All that said, though, it's a good thing that blue-side and red-side feel so differently. If blue-side isn't your thing, you can go red-side, and if red-side annoys you, there's always blue-side. Why try to make both sides more similar if they appeal to different people as they are?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
You're confusing casual with incompetent. I've known plenty of casuals who go and buy a full set (or as much of it as they can find) even if it gives no bonuses really worth having and gives things they don't particularly need (rech in a toggle or similar) just because it is a set and it is neat. Many people like to have something shiny and new for their character every once in a while.
Morning thread,

Who are you to assume that I am not a casual gamer? I spend MAYBE 30minute to an hour fooling around with the market. I spend 2 to 3 hours playing the game and some days I can't even manage that. I RP very casually. I PvP even more casually. And I try to run atleast 3 to 4 speed SFs a day if not every other day for merits. (PvP is broke and PvPECs ideas of balancing just make me sick to my stomach.)

Any casual gamer can IO out their build redside. It just takes a willingness to work the market and run LGTFs, ITFs, Hami raids for merits. You're argument isn't for the casual gamer, it's for the lazy gamer.

You're lazy. There's nothing wrong with that, you have every right to be lazy, it's a game. However, you don't speak for the casual gamer. With a little bit of effort the casual gamer can afford to IO out their build.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
Morning thread,

Who are you to assume that I am not a casual gamer? I spend MAYBE 30minute to an hour fooling around with the market. I spend 2 to 3 hours playing the game and some days I can't even manage that. I RP very casually. I PvP even more casually. And I try to run atleast 3 to 4 speed SFs a day if not every other day for merits. (PvP is broke and PvPECs ideas of balancing just make me sick to my stomach.)

Any casual gamer can IO out their build redside. It just takes a willingness to work the market and run LGTFs, ITFs, Hami raids for merits. You're argument isn't for the casual gamer, it's for the lazy gamer.

You're lazy. There's nothing wrong with that, you have every right to be lazy, it's a game. However, you don't speak for the casual gamer. With a little bit of effort the casual gamer can afford to IO out their build.
Sorry, not a lot of TFs and raids that I've seen forming up between 11 Pm and 3 Am. Thats generally the only timeframe when I could commit to being at the keyboard that long. Juggling wife work and 5 kids will often keep you from making time commitments like that. Which means no TF farming for merits.

But hey, keep up with the personal attacks. It's clearly helping your case.


 

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
Sorry, not a lot of TFs and raids that I've seen forming up between 11 Pm and 3 Am. Thats generally the only timeframe when I could commit to being at the keyboard that long. Juggling wife work and 5 kids will often keep you from making time commitments like that. Which means no TF farming for merits.

But hey, keep up with the personal attacks. It's clearly helping your case.


Whether you're blueside or red it will take you time to IO out your build. Any MMO will be a significantly larger time sink than lets say a FPS.

I've took a glance at common IOs on blueside ad red, there isn't really a significant difference in pricing.

Also, are you part of the TF, and badge channels on your server? 11pm EST (if you are EST) is still prime time for pacific players.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
Sorry, not a lot of TFs and raids that I've seen forming up between 11 Pm and 3 Am. Thats generally the only timeframe when I could commit to being at the keyboard that long. Juggling wife work and 5 kids will often keep you from making time commitments like that. Which means no TF farming for merits.
You don't have to farm TF's. I use them as my primary means of level progression; I may only play one or two times a week, but it's not usually hard for me to find the 1-2 hours necessary to do a single TF when I do play.

I can't make any promises about getting Tf's reliably in that time slot on a low population server, though I have been able to start some in that time slot on small servers regardless, and if you move to a larger server--top 4 or so--it's actually somewhat easy to start your own TF at that time of night.

I like TF's because of the distinct encapsulated feel, actually. They're good for casual sessions because you can get that feeling of "OK, I finished this 'stage,' time to quit for the night."


Quote:
But hey, keep up with the personal attacks. It's clearly helping your case.
I don't think you need to antagonize Tokyo, he's making himself look silly well enough on his own. (PVP? RP? 30 minutes of market time daily? More than a couple speed TF's per week? )


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
I've took a glance at common IOs on blueside ad red, there isn't really a significant difference in pricing.
That's a pretty slick attempt at setting up a straw man. When did I ever say it was about pricing. Everything I have mentioned about market flaw (aside from a single example of price fixing, which I pointed out was an example and not the root of the problem) has been in reference to supply, not price. Thats twice already today you've tried to make it seem like I'm saying something other than what I actually posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gec72 View Post
That doesn't sound very casual, at least not to me. I would consider myself a "casual" player, and I'm lucky if I participate in a TF once a month.
I've actually never run a TF, ever. Even in the timeframes I can sit for that long, I am constantly on call to take care of a kid that wakes up or something similar. When I can't 100% commit to being a contributing part of the TF, I don't join as a matter of courtesy. My level of casual means I will never see that content, I'm fine with that. It also means that merits are not a reliable way for me to get high end IO's. Which leaves the market. Which is flawed if you do not have merit purchases to bolster it.

But some people seem to have serious issues understanding that if the market is your sole source of IO's, it rapidly becomes very flawed when supply is significantly lower than demand. But god forbid anyone should disagree with them or point out flaws in the system. But hey, lets see how many more straw men arguments and personal attacks this thread can garnish today, it's off to a solid start within just a short time!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
That's a pretty slick attempt at setting up a straw man. When did I ever say it was about pricing. Everything I have mentioned about market flaw (aside from a single example of price fixing, which I pointed out was an example and not the root of the problem) has been in reference to supply, not price. Thats twice already today you've tried to make it seem like I'm saying something other than what I actually posted.
I don't see a huge disparity in the amount of common IOs blue to red either.

I'll get you a screen-shot once I get home.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
Morning thread,

Who are you to assume that I am not a casual gamer? I spend MAYBE 30minute to an hour fooling around with the market.
I spend less than that. I generally visit the market during the last 15-20 minutes of my session to list things I want to sell, bid on what I want to buy and collect my money from the last time I did that. It's pretty quick and easy and I'm pretty happy with my results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eltonio View Post
This is over the top mental slavery.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Ishaila View Post
I really hate Longbow, I really do. I typically call them 'condomheads' or 'Candy Canes' depending on the character i'm on.
I prefer "Wrongbow"

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Did I mention that I hate Longbow? That grenade they have is annnnnoying. YES. FLOOR YO' DEF and RESISTANCE. FOR SWEET JUSTICE.
I've heard alot of people complain about Longbow, but aside from the Ballistas and some of the Wardens, they've never given me any trouble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eltonio View Post
This is over the top mental slavery.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
It also means that merits are not a reliable way for me to get high end IO's. Which leaves the market. Which is flawed if you do not have merit purchases to bolster it.
You're aware that all the story arcs give merits too, right?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humility View Post
I've actually never run a TF, ever. Even in the timeframes I can sit for that long, I am constantly on call to take care of a kid that wakes up or something similar. When I can't 100% commit to being a contributing part of the TF, I don't join as a matter of courtesy. My level of casual means I will never see that content, I'm fine with that. It also means that merits are not a reliable way for me to get high end IO's. Which leaves the market. Which is flawed if you do not have merit purchases to bolster it.
Right - also having a 10yo (and a 7yo), that's exactly where I am in regards to TFs/SFs. If I am absolutely certain that the kids are occupied - which usually involves them being out of the house (or out of state ) - I might join a TF. If there's a chance I'll need to attend to them in any way (and there are seemingly countless ways), I won't, like you say as a matter of courtesy.

I'll get merits from soloing, but that's nowhere near as efficient as TFs. At least not while you're leveling. I'll get decent builds this way, but things like the Numina/Miracle uniques, LoTG recharge, etc. are pretty much limited to lucky rolls (eh, I'll add the Kinetic Combat triple too which I was lucky enough to roll the other day). But I'm ok with that.


Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo View Post
I don't see a huge disparity in the amount of common IOs blue to red either.

I'll get you a screen-shot once I get home.
Wait, by common IOs, are you-all talking about the ones you can buy the recipes for from any crafting table? No reason to go to the market for those, unless they're cheaper. Or were you referring to pre-crafted ones only?