Are Scrappers Broken?


Adelie

 

Posted

Tankers: “Scrappers do waaaay more damage than us AND have comparable defenses!”

Brutes: “Scrappers are better than us in PvP!”

Controllers: “Scrappers do more DPS than us!”

Corruptors: “Scrappers solo better than we do!”

Defenders: “Scrappers do more damage, have higher defenses AND solo better than we do!”

Blasters: …/faceplant

Dominators: “PToD doesn’t affect Scrappers! We’re worthless in big fights!”

Kheldians: “We can’t solo AVs like a Scrapper!”

Stalkers: “I want to Scrap like a Scrapper!”

Blasters: “SCRA!...” /faceplant


What does this tell you? Not trying to be a Scrapper hater or calling for a nerf (Having lots of fun with my latest scrapper.) , but it’s hard to deny that all other AT boards seem to make a point of comparing themselves to Scrappers… Scrapper envy can be seen almost daily in every single AT board. Yet, how often do Scrappers exhibit AT envy?

—Granted, some of my over-generalized statements above may be out of date or exaggerated, but nonetheless, just something I’ve consistently observed in the boards.

Food for thought.


 

Posted

Soldiers: Lol Scrappers
Masterminds: I have an army, who cares about scrappers.
Widows: Sexier than scrappers


 

Posted

1: Scrappers don't have comparable mitigation to tanks.

2: Fury generation was altered at some point in PvP. Brutes get better HP and tanker level caps.

3: Working as intended.

4: Woring as intended.

5: Working as intended.

6: Working as intended. Serious answer, blasters have better DPS.

7: Doms recently received a very nice full time damage buff.

8: Working as intended.

9: Working as intended.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnX View Post

Controllers: “Scrappers do more DPS than us!”

Corruptors: “Scrappers solo better than we do!”

Defenders: “Scrappers do more damage, have higher defenses AND solo better than we do!”

Dominators: “PToD doesn’t affect Scrappers! We’re worthless in big fights!”



.
Lol


 

Posted

I don't think any scrappers have solo'd any GM's yet. Be sure to let Corrs, MM's, Trollers, and Def's know when they do


 

Posted

Scrappers (and Brutes) are currently sitting in the power-building sweet spot - they have a good offensive base and moderate mitigation. IOs provide enough additional survivability to handle as much challenge as it is profitable to handle. They can't solo GMs, yes, but then that's not actually a useful thing to be able to do from a rewards-maximization perspective.

I think that in the distant future, we will look on I16 as the golden age of the Scrapper (and Brute).


@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs

 

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Because while they're busy [censored] we're busy trying to figure out a better way to scramble the egg.


The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.

 

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:\ Both my Corrupter and defender can out-tank any scrapper and the corruptor can out DPS most scrappers. Honestly...I have been lurking for forever and a day and I don't see any scrapper envy. They are talked about the most because they are the most commonly used AT and I beleive with the exception of Defenders they are the most Generally usable AT, meaning they can solo pretty well. All AT's redside are superior in that sense however.



D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate View Post
:\ Both my Corrupter and defender can out-tank any scrapper.
Shame your not an EU player cos you'd have a queue of people who would like to put that theory to the test.


He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnX View Post
What does this tell you? Not trying to be a Scrapper hater or calling for a nerf (Having lots of fun with my latest scrapper.) , but it’s hard to deny that all other AT boards seem to make a point of comparing themselves to Scrappers… Scrapper envy can be seen almost daily in every single AT board. Yet, how often do Scrappers exhibit AT envy?

—Granted, some of my over-generalized statements above may be out of date or exaggerated, but nonetheless, just something I’ve consistently observed in the boards.

Food for thought.
I read the other boards consistently. The Tanker Board sometimes refers to Scrappers, especially when contrasting shared powersets, and sometimes when one particular individual inexplicably protests that tankers should have better defenses and damage than everyone else. And ponies.

The Blaster forum does exhibit a little jealousy once in a while -- it's justifiable, given the state of Blaster secondaries, IMHO.

Other than that, day in and day out, I don't see Scrapper jealousy worth noting on the other boards.

I do see a certain amount of chest-thumping from Scrapper players, and the occasional self-justifying ("I don't have to wait for the team! They can clean up after me and fetch my slippers!") but it's not too bad.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Shame your not an EU player cos you'd have a queue of people who would like to put that theory to the test.
speaking in PVE terms.



D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
Scrappers (and Brutes) are currently sitting in the power-building sweet spot - they have a good offensive base and moderate mitigation. IOs provide enough additional survivability to handle as much challenge as it is profitable to handle. They can't solo GMs, yes, but then that's not actually a useful thing to be able to do from a rewards-maximization perspective.

I think that in the distant future, we will look on I16 as the golden age of the Scrapper (and Brute).
I think you nailed it. It's kinda like the game was designed around Scrappers, and then other ATs were added later. Sorta makes sense to do it that way though I guess.

This makes the Scrapper(Brute) the all-around best choice in most situations.
I think this may change going forward.

This is not likely to be "news" to the devs....assuming it's true anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Stalkers: “I want to Scrap like a Scrapper!”
Riiiight. Like they do so much better than Stalkers...heh, Scrappers can't even use Dark Melee (and soon Electric Melee) right.


 

Posted

So what are you saying exactly? That the other ATs are inferior to scrappers or that scrappers are in need of a nerf? Or both? I think scrappers are great, and serve their purpose, but a well played toon is great regardless of AT. Scrappers are great at providing some damage and being largely independent, but there are some things they can't do. Like providing meaningful debuffs or controls for a team.


Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.

"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality

 

Posted

but a well played toon is great regardless of AT


This. I play with 3 people regular. No scrap or tank on the team, and we run on level 5 and i don't think we've had a wipe yet. Most of the time, we have 1 troller, 1 def, and 1 blaster. 1 of us may play a tank occassionally, but the results are always the same.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Dawn View Post
Shame your not an EU player cos you'd have a queue of people who would like to put that theory to the test.
Give me a level 1-5 Rad defender, and they'll be many orders of magnitude safer than a Scrapper (plus end up pulling aggro with their toggles) for many more levels (or permanently, frankly.)

And if you've never heard of a "tankfender," you haven't seen a good (often D3) defender.

I've got to agree with Sailboat - I just don't see this complaining about Scrappers ... um, pretty much anywhere.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Scrappers can't even use Dark Melee right.
Them's some serious fightin' words.


@Demobot

Also on Steam

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnX View Post
What does this tell you?
That you've filtered all the possible feedback you gotten on inter-AT balance down to some largely ignorant comments that don't represent a very in-depth understanding of the game.

You've assembled a bunch of completely anecdotal comments that some people might have said, some of which is simply untrue, and presented them in a group as if that lends them special credence. Just because a lot of people say something doesn't mean it's true. It just means a lot of people think it. In debate, this is known as "appeal to popularity" or "ad populum", and it's a well recognized logical fallacy.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
I don't think any scrappers have solo'd any GM's yet. Be sure to let Corrs, MM's, Trollers, and Def's know when they do
This right here, if anything scrappers have envy of GM soloers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
I don't think any scrappers have solo'd any GM's yet. Be sure to let Corrs, MM's, Trollers, and Def's know when they do
This.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate View Post
:\ Both my Corrupter and defender can out-tank any scrapper
Really? What kind of corrupter and defender are you running that will out tank any scrapper? Cuz I call B.S.


 

Posted

I've never really looked at the game in terms of what is fastest or safest. I'm interested in toys. I like new ways to do things, new challenges, etc. I enjoy the control game, the buff/debuff game, the mastermind RTS style game. But scrappers? They have no game to play. So I never got one passed the teens. Tanks at least have the taunting/agro-fest game to play, though I find that game lacking.

I agree that the game is and should be designed around scrappers. Because scrappers are the bare bones, no unique tricks AT.


 

Posted

You 7 go that way....I'll go this way....see ya soon.

I've said this before and it worked out just fine.

The team was a tank, 2 defenders, a controller, 3 blasters, and me. If that team had needed a scrapper with them to survive....they would suck. It just made more sense to go kill things in another room while the rest of the team was turning the one they were in into a slaughterhouse.

That's what scrappers excel at (paralleled by brutes) they can handle most anything thrown at them with aplomb.

I've had Empaths tell me "When you die I'm not coming to get you."
My response was "When YOU die...I'll come back and give you a wakie."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnX View Post
Tankers: “Scrappers do waaaay more damage than us AND have comparable defenses!”

Brutes: “Scrappers are better than us in PvP!”

Controllers: “Scrappers do more DPS than us!”

Corruptors: “Scrappers solo better than we do!”

Defenders: “Scrappers do more damage, have higher defenses AND solo better than we do!”

Blasters: …/faceplant

Dominators: “PToD doesn’t affect Scrappers! We’re worthless in big fights!”

Kheldians: “We can’t solo AVs like a Scrapper!”

Stalkers: “I want to Scrap like a Scrapper!”

Blasters: “SCRA!...” /faceplant
Or, for an alternate version:


Tankers: "Die? What's that?"

Brutes: "Can't talk. Too busy with SMASH!"

Controllers: "Please be silent. I'm basking in my greatness here."

Corruptors: "Scourge! Scourge! Hahahaha!"

Defenders: "Don't call me a healer!"

Blasters: "BOOM! Hah!"

Dominators: "Please stand still while I set you on fire."

Kheldians: "More slots! Pleasssse!"

Stalkers: "This isn't the Archetype you're looking for." *Placate*


Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
Or, for an alternate version:


Tankers: "Die? What's that?"

Brutes: "Can't talk. Too busy with SMASH!"

Controllers: "Please be silent. I'm basking in my greatness here."

Corruptors: "Scourge! Scourge! Hahahaha!"

Defenders: "Don't call me a healer!"

Blasters: "BOOM! Hah!"

Dominators: "Please stand still while I set you on fire."

Kheldians: "More slots! Pleasssse!"

Stalkers: "This isn't the Archetype you're looking for." *Placate*

I actually CRIED from laughter! XD All so much win. -passes the oreos-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.