Are Scrappers Broken?

In a very modest way scrappers can, via Achilles Heel and Fury of Gladiator procs, allow for true force multiplication. Whether the devs will ever find it "thematically fitting" to allow for *consitant* force multiplication is unlikely, IMO. In AV battles, it is welcome solo. On teams... well its not as great as dedicated de-buffers, but every bit of stacking de-buff helps.

This thread is a recapitulation of tank vs scrap defense and blaster vs scrap offense and a little of whether or not scrapper utilities step on the toes of other AT. And the same point-counterpoint arguement persists: so much of the performance in this game is in such a narrow spectrum that its not so much are scrappers too powerful, but rather they are powerful enough. So much so that even if the thrust of the character is in one direction (wake of a motorboat), I can still stylize the same character in a variety of eddies, albeit ONE EDDIE AT A TIME. Thus, to make an even poorer qualitative statistical analogy, the scrapper sets set the standard both high and high enough that the standard deviation of a collection of scrappers (as a class of individuals) seems to cover all the bases, but individually tested its still sketchy. The quantum theory of scrapper-ness ?!

Doesn't Shield Defense have a team +defense power?

I'm only jumping into this thread now, and really don't see Scrappers as broken. They're certainly less broken than a number of other ATs, or specifically builds in other ATs.

Ultimately, every build is a different combination of force multiplier (team buffs/enemy debuffs), additive force (damage), team mitigation (anything from team buffs to mezzes and soft control to defeating enemies really fast), and personal mitigation (team/personal buffs, enemy debuffs, and damage). It's in the combinations that the fun is to be had.

Scrappers are largely additive force with decent-to-strong personal mitigation, some team mitigation (better on AoE heavy Scrappers), and little-but-still-there force multiplication.

No AT is singularly a force multiplier or singularly additive force. We only see them as primarily focussed on that, generally because that's what their primary powerset is.

Assuming builds that are not IO'd to the teeth or heavily amped on particular, particularly strong builds, teams that have a good mix excel more than teams that rely on only one category (and to anyone who's going to point out all-X runs, read that sentence again, carefully).

So assuming a team already has significant damage and mitigation already, and only one slot left to invite a player, it is generally better to invite a strong force multiplier like most Defenders or Controllers compared to a primarily force additive Scrapper. There are exceptions, but since mathematically, Scrappers are poor force multipliers, this tends to follow through.

Generally speaking, Tankers are better force multipliers than Scrappers are, due to better aggro management by default, and usually better AoE with secondary effects. But without the two major debuffs--resistance and regen (defence debuffs generally aren't much of a factor at higher levels)--there are far better picks if looking for force multiplication.

So looking at this subject from an AT perspective only yields generalities. Looking at particular builds is far more significant, as well as looking at the difficulty settings and make-up of the mission and team.

For instance, on a moderate damage team with decent buffs, debuffs, and mez, with a large spawn count and needing to choose between my SD/SS Tanker and my MA/WP Scrapper, I will take my Tanker every time, due to SD's damage buff in large crowds, better AoE, and general utility. That isn't to say my MA/WP is a bad choice--for instance, a team lacking ST damage and/or significant -res would probably benefit greatly from my MA/WP, at least as much as SD/SS if there's another Tanker on the team.

So, as with so many things, details matter far too much to be passed over.

Scrappers can be awesome without being force multipliers...

A team of scrappers can be great teammates, play intelligently, save other ATs derrierres without being force multipliers.

Which is good, because by the (almost) universal definition of the term, they just aren't in any significant way whatsoever.

You can still be awesome, useful, and potent team contributors though. No sarcasm at all there.

But not Force Multipliers. Really.

I cannot prove it, but I say earnestly that I did not rep you.

In short, New Dawn, keeping people alive isn't force multiplication. Because everyone can keep everyone alive. My Sonic/Ice blaster can keep a team alive. My Grav/Ice dom can keep people alive. My Spines/Dark stalker can keep people alive. But that isn't multiplying anything. That's just playing the game.

Defense/resistance buffs effectively multiplies a team's effective max HP. +dmg buffs and -res debuffs multiplies the amount of damage a foe receives. etc etc. It's not so much if an AT is or isn't a force multiplier, it's more "what powers enhances a teams base performance?" If you want to multiply a team's effectiveness you need powers that do it. Maneuvers, Grant Invisibility, Grant Cover, Assault, Spirit Tree, Trick Arrow etc. But the times a scrapper takes such powers aren't common.

And further more, certain effects and power applications will multiply a teams effectiveness in different amounts. -Def debuffs and ToHit buffs will certainly make a team more effective unless the team is already hitting with high enough accuracy that it doesn't matter. Or adding more and more +def buffs do not scale once the team is at +45% def to the positions/types that are relevant to the mission. However, -res is always useful and stacking -end/-recovery on foes will keep them bottomed out.

I am entitled to my opinion. I am not fighting anyone elses opinion, you can carry on thinking what you like.

I like my rule breakiness, I am not in a box doing stuff everyone else does. I break other peoples rules like no ones business in game. I don't have problems playing any character and in a game that is what really matters.

A formula no matter what you do with it can be rewritten another way, that other way maybe long winded hence things like multiplication was adopted.

I am not going to continue arguing on the internet about it.

It is supremely unnecessary to dismember the accepted meaning of "force multiplication" in order to justify the usefulness of scrappers on teams.