I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
By
a tame rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-08-12 10:06 in Developers' Corner
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Originally Posted by Quinch_NA
It sounds better than it is, considering that doesn't give you a direct conversion into endurance cost reduction.
The reduction formula, for endurance and recharge, for example, is 1/(1+(enhancements)) Plugging those numbers into the formula {and ignoring ED}, we get this; DOs Cost Difference 0 100,00% N/A 1 85,69% -14,31% 2 74,96% -10,73% 3 66,62% -8,34% 4 59,95% -6,67% 5 54,50% -5,46% 6 49,95% -4,55% Total -50,05% As you can see, with each enhancement you add, the benefit from it decreases - in its own way, reduction enhancements come with its own ED system. So, I'm going to have to disagree with your point and state that, while enhancements can be useful for knocking off a percent or ten from the power cost, they're not nearly as effective as endurance management tools as they sound. Edit: By the way, back on topic, has there been any word on whether the SSK system will affect flashback requirements, or whether there'll be any changes to the flashback system at all? |
I still haven't figured out why a majority of mmo's don't have out of combat regen/recovery. It's a nice idea. I don't see why it shouldn't exist; I survived the mob afterall. Now, you could say that you could kind of bend it to your advantage by backing off and taking a breather to let your out of combat regen/recovery to get a second wind during a fight, but the few game's I've seen with this feature, CO included, 'reset' the mob to full hp if you fully disengage from the fight. So here's the question:
Would people like it more if Health/Stamina boosted your out of combat regen/recovery to rest levels when 3 slotted each? Thing is, I don't often find myself running low on end smack dab in the middle of a fight, and if you do thats when blues/greens should come in. AE boss farms is an exception, however, but I'd like (hope) to think the devs still balance things around normal content, and normally you don't run into full boss spawns that take longer than normal to plow through.
It's either that, or it'd be nice for rest to get another recharge reduction, like it did before. Yes, I know you can slot rest for recharge, but that's as inane as slotting brawl.
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unless I missed something...TF/SFs will still abide by a players actual level for eligibility to be on a TF/SF team.
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Originally Posted by Master_of_dragon
after I16 they will be able to, right?
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well apparently I did miss that gem of the SF/TF cause everything I read pointed me to believe that MY lvl 50 could drag his team of 7 wanna be uber lvl 2 cause we did the outbreak after all and they are super side kicked to me so lvl 49 and now we run Dr Q. I guess I missed posi post that that wasn't happening is that what your telling me cause that exactly what I was understanding with everything I read.
Quick (em flashlight) shed some light on the darkness which has englufed my brain....
AV
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There is nothing in any of the posts from Posi suggesting that they are changing the requirements for starting any TFs. Only the requirements for entering the zone are being changed, so far as we know. Anything contrary is merely wishful thinking and rumormongering.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
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As far as adding 20% experience bonus in the first 20 levels is really not needed. I can blaze through those levels with a lot of ease. The 20% bonus needs to be for the last 10 levels. Getting from 40 to 50 takes forever unless you are doing lots of task forces. But I like to do some role playing and solo alot. To get the full experience of the game, not just seeing how many 50's I can make. I feel those are the areas that need to be addressed not the lower levels.
on the RWZ
Since SSK works on team leader nd RWZ WAS open to 35+ let me sk you something. what is the minimum you would see working for raid? for me id say 22 would work so how hard would it be to brodcast "raid teams forming 22+ only PST) I've seen raids NOW that broad cast "45+ only" even though the zone lets in 35s so how is it much of a change?
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This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Well, at 45, there's a chance you could still help even if the group didn't have SK room. At anything less, and you're more of a liability than anything. That could be why you see those broadcasts.|
Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
on the RWZ
Since SSK works on team leader nd RWZ WAS open to 35+ let me sk you something. what is the minimum you would see working for raid? for me id say 22 would work so how hard would it be to brodcast "raid teams forming 22+ only PST) I've seen raids NOW that broad cast "45+ only" even though the zone lets in 35s so how is it much of a change? |
As long as there's SK room on the raid teams, I've seen 35's joining. It becomes a pain, though, trying to make sure you stay in range of your lackey/mentor. Especially for any pet classes (dom/troller/MM) where the pets can die because of the sk range.
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Another, albeit very minor, problem is that given the information I've read once you join a team you'll automatically be SK'd to the appropriate level. That means that if you're out of range so the team leader can't select you, you could be level two and when that "35+ only" message comes across broadcast you could send your tell saying "level 35 Defender!". Once you're invited the only way the leader has of verifying your level is checking your info (takes a while during a fight) or waiting to watch how you play. In either case it might be too late and your inability to pull your weight could already have cost someone some debt.
Without SSKing, you get on the team, you're selected and automatically shown to be a lvl 2. You're then kicked.
Like I said, very minor problem. Still, it will happen and it will be annoying for team leaders on raids.
The other obvious scenario is when the level 2 (or 10 or 20 or whatever you think is too low) comes up and sees there's a raid in progress and does their "Level 40 Tank, LF Raid Team!" Someone already in the middle of the fight could really be counting on that tank to be level 40, invites them without having time to verify 'cuz they're already in a huge fight, and the next thing you know the fake level 40 tank wipes and takes the rest of the team with him.
Not likely to be common, but it will happen. Just sayin'.
Robin
(Oh, and for full disclosure: I think the whole side kick/exemp change idea is awesome and I couldn't be happier with it.)
--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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I like everything Posi posted. If folks are so damned concerned about leveling too fast between levels 1 and 20, simply turn off xp. Not rocket science.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
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This x2! You go Aura.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I like everything Posi posted. If folks are so damned concerned about leveling too fast between levels 1 and 20, simply turn off xp. Not rocket science.
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--If we can have huge sig images, why can we have only five lines of text?
--...faceplanting like a Defender pulling an AV (Nalrok_AthZim)
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...
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all of which become moot by SSK!
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, at 45, there's a chance you could still help even if the group didn't have SK room. At anything less, and you're more of a liability than anything. That could be why you see those broadcasts.
As long as there's SK room on the raid teams, I've seen 35's joining. It becomes a pain, though, trying to make sure you stay in range of your lackey/mentor. Especially for any pet classes (dom/troller/MM) where the pets can die because of the sk range. |
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Maybe this is why SSK should be like AE mishns where when you in mishn your auto SKed.
Also be able to turn it off too.
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Wow, epic thread! I'm very pleased with the upcoming changes. The Super Group I'm in have a vast number of coalitions across three servers, and I can definately see the advantages of Super Sidekick. This will make teaming much easier as all of us have many characters of varying levels.
Of the very few who aren't interested or have negative feelings on this subject....they are entitled to their opinion. I've never been a fan of the reputation system, and I never will be. No matter how obnoxious someone is, you have an option to skip their posts or even put them on ignore.
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Agreed. Guild Wars' system is pretty good. Once you're out of combat, both health and mana/energy regen start to regen and the rate of regen increases over time (so it's logarithmic). Essentially, it's "rest" without requiring the player to hit a button. The system just requires that the player not be on anything's aggro list and bam, super-regen kicks in. It's really, really nice.|
Originally Posted by biff10426
I still haven't figured out why a majority of mmo's don't have out of combat regen/recovery. It's a nice idea. I don't see why it shouldn't exist; I survived the mob afterall. Now, you could say that you could kind of bend it to your advantage by backing off and taking a breather to let your out of combat regen/recovery to get a second wind during a fight, but the few game's I've seen with this feature, CO included, 'reset' the mob to full hp if you fully disengage from the fight.
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During combat, normal mana/energy management gameplay exists.
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One of the few things I do like about GW. Though on the other hand I do see how it might serve to invalidate healing more if nobody needs to be healed outside of combat. Heals are already downplayed enough that might stop people from shouting "NEED HEALER," but then again people would do that no matter what since other games have taught them otherwise. Oh well, I'm indifferent on this proposed change.
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Originally Posted by Octal40
Agreed. Guild Wars' system is pretty good. Once you're out of combat, both health and mana/energy regen start to regen and the rate of regen increases over time (so it's logarithmic). Essentially, it's "rest" without requiring the player to hit a button. The system just requires that the player not be on anything's aggro list and bam, super-regen kicks in. It's really, really nice.
During combat, normal mana/energy management gameplay exists. |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Makes things easier when i play with lowbies! 
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Originally Posted by Quinch
By the way, for those who don't know yet - I16 has gone open.
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yup! CRAZY fun~!
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Thats the best part |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Also no more worrying over the dreaded "Lackey Leash"
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Very, very interesting. Now a quick question (and forgive me if it's already been aswered, I've got very limited time right now), does every player get SKed up, or only those who are more than 3 levels lower than the team leader?
I.E. if we have a team of a 5, a 7, an 8, a 10, 1n 11 and a 15, running the lvl 10s mission, will the 5, 7 & 8 all be SKed to lvl 9, and the 11 and 15 RSKed to 10, or will the lvl5 run at 9, the lvl7, lvl8 and lvl11 at their respective levels, and the 15 be RSKed to 10?
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Might I suggest making both options available (and not mutually exclusive)?
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Originally Posted by Positron
Current implementation on Training Room is "character" friends list.
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Nice, I like the fact that the old way is an option.
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Originally Posted by Positron
With Super-sidekicking this is no longer true.
Everyone (well not level 50's) get XP, even those characters that are exemplared. You can choose to go back to the old "extra Inf., no XP" way if you'd like, though, in Options. |
Over all I like it, but would REALLY like to see it optional. Even if you don't bring back the old version as an option, you should still be able to turn it off. I don't like 'features' that don't give me a choice whether I use them or not.
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Everyone.|
Originally Posted by Hallowed
Very, very interesting. Now a quick question (and forgive me if it's already been aswered, I've got very limited time right now), does every player get SKed up, or only those who are more than 3 levels lower than the team leader?
I.E. if we have a team of a 5, a 7, an 8, a 10, 1n 11 and a 15, running the lvl 10s mission, will the 5, 7 & 8 all be SKed to lvl 9, and the 11 and 15 RSKed to 10, or will the lvl5 run at 9, the lvl7, lvl8 and lvl11 at their respective levels, and the 15 be RSKed to 10? |
Hell i had a lvl 2 wo was SSK to....2 cause the team leader was 3....
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
The reduction formula, for endurance and recharge, for example, is 1/(1+(enhancements))
Plugging those numbers into the formula {and ignoring ED}, we get this;
DOs Cost Difference
0 100,00% N/A
1 85,69% -14,31%
2 74,96% -10,73%
3 66,62% -8,34%
4 59,95% -6,67%
5 54,50% -5,46%
6 49,95% -4,55%
Total -50,05%
As you can see, with each enhancement you add, the benefit from it decreases - in its own way, reduction enhancements come with its own ED system. So, I'm going to have to disagree with your point and state that, while enhancements can be useful for knocking off a percent or ten from the power cost, they're not nearly as effective as endurance management tools as they sound.
Edit: By the way, back on topic, has there been any word on whether the SSK system will affect flashback requirements, or whether there'll be any changes to the flashback system at all?