I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
By
a tame rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-08-12 10:06 in Developers' Corner
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Have you thought about getting the Day Job badges for hospitals and the university? Getting both gives you the Physician Accolade and then logging out in hospitals or universities will build up charges of an ally resurrection power (15 charges maximum I think, but that should be plenty unless the defender is dying a lot). I've found it rather handy, and it would save you 3 power picks assuming you didn't need Aid Self anyway.|
Originally Posted by American_Valor
I would agree with this considering most of my tanks have the healing pool so I can rez the defender with rez to rez the team granted my first tank doesn't but so far almost nearly ever other does, It's has nearly become as staple power as the fitness pool powers are.
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Originally Posted by Futurias
I hate Vangaurd Merits and how they are handled. The numbers required for costume parts are pretty extreme.
I've pretty much given up on getting them on non-tank, no-scrapper and non-brutes. I hate being a perma-statue during raids. |
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Originally Posted by Quinch_NA
I've thought about this, and... I have to say I oppose it. Thing is, with each XP boost, the challenge decreases, and with it, the accomplishment as well as the new player's grasp of those basic powers.
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Levelling seems fast enough. What the game really needs is fresh newbie content (hopefully Going Rogue will fix this), the endurance issues at L1-20 tackled (i.e. an increase in base recovery rates and reducing recharge time on Rest power) and a way to give us more powers at lower levels. For the latter I'd suggest one of two things:
1) let anyone skip to L5 or L10 with new characters (perhaps as a function of the 3 or 6 month veteran reward badge) using a /level command, or
2) let us pick 2-3 primary and 2 secondary powers at character creation so the early game isn't so dull due to lack of powers, and then either change some later levels in the game to give us extra slots instead of extra power picks, or just leave things as they are (so you'd have 2-3 additional powers by the end of the game - actually that would be good compensation for having to take 3 Fitness pool powers on most characters).
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what might be cool would be "Signature powers" any 3 powers (maybe taken at 6, 9, and 12?) fro any set but like temp powers cant be slotted. It would give enyone spemthing unique but not over powered
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Have you thought about getting the Day Job badges for hospitals and the university? Getting both gives you the Physician Accolade and then logging out in hospitals or universities will build up charges of an ally resurrection power (15 charges maximum I think, but that should be plenty unless the defender is dying a lot). I've found it rather handy, and it would save you 3 power picks assuming you didn't need Aid Self anyway.
Ditto - I stopped playing my Corruptor and Blaster on raids as I hated the amount of mez flying around. Now I only take my Scrappers/Brutes/Stalkers/VEATs to mothership raids (usually a VEAT tbh). I oppose it for a different reason - on my latest duo my friend and I did The Radio starting just after we dinged L10 with the intent of doing that and then 3 newsies and a mayhem (for the Zero-G Pack) to get to L15 - we actually had to turn off xp on the second newsie (at L14.9) to avoid outlevelling the chance to pick up that mayhem. I can't imagine how bad it would be if we could actually bear to do the longer (and duller) lowbie arcs on blueside at that level - must be so easy to outlevel every single contact at that level range, especially if you're teaming. Levelling seems fast enough. What the game really needs is fresh newbie content (hopefully Going Rogue will fix this), the endurance issues at L1-20 tackled (i.e. an increase in base recovery rates and reducing recharge time on Rest power) and a way to give us more powers at lower levels. For the latter I'd suggest one of two things: 1) let anyone skip to L5 or L10 with new characters (perhaps as a function of the 3 or 6 month veteran reward badge) using a /level command, or 2) let us pick 2-3 primary and 2 secondary powers at character creation so the early game isn't so dull due to lack of powers, and then either change some later levels in the game to give us extra slots instead of extra power picks, or just leave things as they are (so you'd have 2-3 additional powers by the end of the game - actually that would be good compensation for having to take 3 Fitness pool powers on most characters). |
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Who cares about the # of posts you have! Because getting 20,000+ posts is a barometer of how skilled you are in his game (For me it works differently, How many posts you have means how much of a life you don't have!)
CoX will have to do a lot more to get new subscribers and keep their fans! I don't see why we cant get commercials, magazine ads, online banners...I look on Facebook and Myspace and they have banners for CO but nothing for CoX...I don't even have CO as a friend or anything! Maybe its just me?
I mean G4 has constant news files on CO and DCUO and I haven't seen anything when it comes to CoX...NC Soft has a commercial for Aion but not for CoX?
I asked around why can''t G4 do an interview for Going Rogue or why they didn't do an interview for AE and I got a Meh answer.
I think CoX needs to actually do some marketing for the coming new features or they will prolly fail...
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
G4 Can't do an interview for GR because they are too busy playing Cops.
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| Rest...takes an unreasonable amount of time to recharge and activate. |
LOL
Why don't you just ask for a "Lvl to 20" button, maybe that would be easier for you?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Do you enjoy standing around doing nothing but waiting for health/end bars to recover if Rest is down? If so then you'd have loved EverQuest back in 1999-2003 when I played - one of my characters took 20+ mins to recover a full mana bar from empty without external buffs and it's not like there were any consumables you could chug or powers/skills you could use to top up - so it was basically a 5min fight then 20mins downtime - I got a lot of novel reading done in those days.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
LOL
Why don't you just ask for a "Lvl to 20" button, maybe that would be easier for you? |
EQ taught me that time spent waiting for a bar to refill was basically just wasted time - and in a game that I pay for I don't appreciate having my time wasted unless it is adding to atmosphere or I am given something else to occupy myself while waiting. The wasted time these days is much less, but it's still unnecessary when it occurs.
Rest has enough penalties when you use it that I don't see why it needs more than 10secs recharge time - it's not like you're ever going to use it in combat. I don't see how Rest coming up faster is even comparable to wanting a "level to 20" button - this isn't about levelling faster, it's about spending time enjoying your gameplay rather than wasting time - I don't want to level faster - I just want boring or frustrating moments removed.
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
Do you enjoy standing around doing nothing but waiting for health/end bars to recover if Rest is down? If so then you'd have loved EverQuest back in 1999-2003 when I played - one of my characters took 20+ mins to recover a full mana bar from empty without external buffs and it's not like there were any consumables you could chug or powers/skills you could use to top up - so it was basically a 5min fight then 20mins downtime - I got a lot of novel reading done in those days.
EQ taught me that time spent waiting for a bar to refill was basically just wasted time - and in a game that I pay for I don't appreciate having my time wasted unless it is adding to atmosphere or I am given something else to occupy myself while waiting. The wasted time these days is much less, but it's still unnecessary when it occurs. Rest has enough penalties when you use it that I don't see why it needs more than 10secs recharge time - it's not like you're ever going to use it in combat. I don't see how Rest coming up faster is even comparable to wanting a "level to 20" button - this isn't about levelling faster, it's about spending time enjoying your gameplay rather than wasting time - I don't want to level faster - I just want boring or frustrating moments removed. |
I have very very few toons that cannot last, at lvl 19, long enough for Rest to recharge. I don't run unnecessary toggles. I try to use as end efficient attack chains as survivability will allow. I eat plenty of candy. I slot for maximum end efficiency. The only toon that really had an issue at all was my Fire/Kin, and that was mostly because I was trying to use Hotfeet when it wasn't really necessary.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Why don't you just ask for a "Lvl to 20" button, maybe that would be easier for you?
I take it you missed the part right before it where I object to the XP boost? Unless you now gain XP from resting... I dunno, maybe I missed the memo?
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No, I was commenting on the difficulty you have managing your endurance before Stamina.
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Originally Posted by Quinch_NA
Why don't you just ask for a "Lvl to 20" button, maybe that would be easier for you?
I take it you missed the part right before it where I object to the XP boost? Unless you now gain XP from resting... I dunno, maybe I missed the memo? |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Actually, of my current characters, only two have it, my AR/Dev and tank. Bow/mm, grav/kin, mind/emp and glittersquid all manage without.
That said, the problems with your argument is
a} not all powersets have identical endurance consumption
b} what constitutes as a necessary toggle? Do you run useful toggles?
c} inspiration supply is erratic, and at low levels, there isn't much storage space for them either, often forcing inefficient consumption
d} endurance cost can only be reduced by half - to do so with SOs would require investing three slots for that purpose only into each power. Doing so with DOs {which is what you have available before Lv22} requires no less than five slots, which you don't have available at all but one or two powers at this point to begin with.
I don't advocate reducing the effects of endurance management during combat. What I do advocate is reducing the amount of downtime between fights when there is no difference in danger between recovering endurance using Rest and wasting time waiting for it to return naturally.
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Typical teacher to twist what someone says around so much that it can be viewed in a negative way. Something tells me the education system hasn't changed at all. . . |
Originally Posted by Haruu
As for how education now works, it's a differant world than you grew up in, or maybe you just went to a bad school with mediocre teachers. But again, the students are bad for not turning in the culprit making all their lives worse. Which goes back to only the good gets punished when many are being bad. Good students wouldn't let the entire class take flack for the actions of an individual. Good also is based off action rather than grades. Anyone can suckup and get good grades.
As for your rant about leaving, coming back, paying for lifetime at CO and staying only if CoX is good enough... your not needed here. CO will fail (lifetime memberships to a pay per month game is usually the last straw a game will use to get an influx before they go broke). And Ive gotten bored with CoX, but you didn't see me make a big deal about moving onto a new game, nor have I promoted any of those games. Some I genuinly have enjoyed. Most have been free, some have not. It serves no purpose other than to cause dissent. On a ship, you would be keelhauled for mutiny. I live my life by a code of conduct. Be as honest as I can be. Try to not infringe on others enjoyment. I am not telling you how to play this game, but we don't care about CO. Most of us are anti CO since they were the ones that for a while were ruining this game (Cryptic is the first dev team for CoX and are using the exact same engine with a little Fx mods for CO, and a minor ammount of changes). So the only reason I can see that someone would bring up the competition in a positive light, is to bring down moral here. That infringes upon our enjoyment of the time we spend here. SO either A) you are a spy from the competition trying to invoke mutiny, or B) you arn't happy here, and need to move on. No need to make it grandeouse and try pulling others with you. If the are unhappy, they too will move on. Either way, let us be happy, and take your misery, doom and gloom, elsewhere. Id rather be a happy sheep over a miserable donkey. Sadly, I am to opinionated to really be a sheep, so instead Ill be a happy Lombax. P.S. I hate the lvl 1-49 grind, and yet most of my characters are in that range because I rarely PL for more than a few level to get out of a painful range. like lvl 17-19, 29-32. Two of the worst spots in the game. |
I did not rant about leaving and coming back. I simply stated a fact. I was not bitter and now looking at what I said I believe I was quite diplomatic and even positive. I said that this is a single step in the right direction. I do not believe that my desire for this company to continue to add content to the game as a requirement to keep my buisness is unreasonable.
To add to that you are dead wrong about my not being needed here. Maybe not so much as in myself but there are many others that feel the same way. My vent is full of people that are at the very least giving CO a look. Stating that unless CoX does something the switch could very likely be permanent. Im sure my group is not the only one. Also the closer I get to CO's launch date the more people I havent heard from in months log on to see if we are checking it out.
As far as the lifetime sub being an indication of failure. I couldnt help but lol at that. The only reason I decided to do that is the offer is only available before launch and after playing since alpha I am positve I will play for the 14 months it would require to cover the cost. It wasnt a plege of my undying loyalty to the game lol. In fact I do not see that a lifetime sub that is available only before release is worse than turning a game into a micro transaction item mall with respecs, costume and temporay powers lol.
Reading more into your post I believe you are actually the bitter unhappy individual that needs to move on. After all did you not say that you hate the 1 to 49 grind lol. I find the levels from 20 on quite enjoyable. Sometimes even more enjoyable than the high end stuff because I get tired of people who hate the 1 to 49 grind sending me tells to join their farms.
So back to positive stuff. I like the changes, I am looking forward to what else they will change. Going Rogue in particular interests me and I will be keeping my sub active.
Having said that they still have to compete and i do not doubt that they will. As I said it will be good for fans of both games, or those who might be fans of both after all I have played for over 50 months so I think I must be a fan.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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Well, regardless of anything else you said, you get points from me for the R&C reference.|
Originally Posted by Haruu
...so instead Ill be a happy Lombax....
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Lombaxes FTW.
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Thats the problem with these discussions on forums. People re-read nit pick and find something to argue about. I'm not taking sides but there's a time when a discussion loses its point and i think you guys have reached it here. Settle your differences or walk away.. If your really that passionate, PM's or otherwise its just filling an already large thread with more pages.
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Originally Posted by Vicar
...Reading more into your post I believe...
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Even-con DOs provide 16.7% enhancement. |
Originally Posted by Quinch_NA
... Doing so with DOs {which is what you have available before Lv22}
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You can get level 15 common IOs at level 12, which provide 19.2% enhancement (same as a +3 DO). You can get level 20 IOs at level 17, which provide a 25.6% enhancement (better than a -3 SO).
You can also get IO sets of equivalent levels which provide even better slot utilization.
Now, since levels 1-20 go by so quickly it's probably silly to slot IO sets, but slotting common IOs is easy. If you place bids for crafted IOs in the market for more than the crafting cost (roughly equivalent to DO-level prices), they are usually filled within hours (depending on the type). If you think ahead you can buy up a load of IOs cheaply on the market with another character and store them in your base. Once you've got what you'll need, create the new character and never worry about DOs and all that nonsense.
If the market is dry or you didn't plan ahead, you can just run regular missions, get the salvage and craft the IOs yourself. Finally, if you have the crafting accolade for one of your 50s you can stock your base full of level 15, 20 and 25 IOs.
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Also, don't forget how easy it is to fill out your salvage quota with AE. You can run story arcs and get enough tickets to avoid the gouging that goes on in the market everyday.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
Even-con DOs provide 16.7% enhancement.
You can get level 15 common IOs at level 12, which provide 19.2% enhancement (same as a +3 DO). You can get level 20 IOs at level 17, which provide a 25.6% enhancement (better than a -3 SO). You can also get IO sets of equivalent levels which provide even better slot utilization. Now, since levels 1-20 go by so quickly it's probably silly to slot IO sets, but slotting common IOs is easy. If you place bids for crafted IOs in the market for more than the crafting cost (roughly equivalent to DO-level prices), they are usually filled within hours (depending on the type). If you think ahead you can buy up a load of IOs cheaply on the market with another character and store them in your base. Once you've got what you'll need, create the new character and never worry about DOs and all that nonsense. If the market is dry or you didn't plan ahead, you can just run regular missions, get the salvage and craft the IOs yourself. Finally, if you have the crafting accolade for one of your 50s you can stock your base full of level 15, 20 and 25 IOs. |
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Meh. It's debatable that you'd be better off rolling for bronze recipes and selling them and dealing with the gouging because you're wealthy enough.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
Also, don't forget how easy it is to fill out your salvage quota with AE. You can run story arcs and get enough tickets to avoid the gouging that goes on in the market everyday.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I could debate all of this.... but really Work is picking up again, so I'll be on the forums les (I only get on the forums while bored at work.... fancy that, I only talk here when I can't play)|
Originally Posted by Vicar
Typical teacher to twist what someone says around so much that it can be viewed in a negative way. Something tells me the education system hasn't changed at all. . .
I did not rant about leaving and coming back. I simply stated a fact. I was not bitter and now looking at what I said I believe I was quite diplomatic and even positive. I said that this is a single step in the right direction. I do not believe that my desire for this company to continue to add content to the game as a requirement to keep my buisness is unreasonable. To add to that you are dead wrong about my not being needed here. Maybe not so much as in myself but there are many others that feel the same way. My vent is full of people that are at the very least giving CO a look. Stating that unless CoX does something the switch could very likely be permanent. Im sure my group is not the only one. Also the closer I get to CO's launch date the more people I havent heard from in months log on to see if we are checking it out. As far as the lifetime sub being an indication of failure. I couldnt help but lol at that. The only reason I decided to do that is the offer is only available before launch and after playing since alpha I am positve I will play for the 14 months it would require to cover the cost. It wasnt a plege of my undying loyalty to the game lol. In fact I do not see that a lifetime sub that is available only before release is worse than turning a game into a micro transaction item mall with respecs, costume and temporay powers lol. Reading more into your post I believe you are actually the bitter unhappy individual that needs to move on. After all did you not say that you hate the 1 to 49 grind lol. I find the levels from 20 on quite enjoyable. Sometimes even more enjoyable than the high end stuff because I get tired of people who hate the 1 to 49 grind sending me tells to join their farms. So back to positive stuff. I like the changes, I am looking forward to what else they will change. Going Rogue in particular interests me and I will be keeping my sub active. Having said that they still have to compete and i do not doubt that they will. As I said it will be good for fans of both games, or those who might be fans of both after all I have played for over 50 months so I think I must be a fan. |
A) I never said I was a teacher. I work for education. And Its a pretty typical High-school statement to assume all teachers twist words around. Just because I have a collegiate level vocabulary and an understanding of psychology/sociology, as well as common debate tactics, doesn't mean I am a teacher, nor any type of staff most of you would know about. My Job position (in the state I reside) is less than 3 years old.
B) Grind is a key word. TF's are fun. GM hunting is fun. Soloing is boring. MA farming is boring. Radio/Paper farming is boring. Door sitting is boring. I farm and PL during the week cause there isn't much better to do (Esp for a Vil on a less populated server). Weekends are a blast, but that's because of the lack of a "grind" feeling. Then again I have a small but very active SG/VG that always likes to change things up. For instance, this past weekend: 4 AE arcs, 24 radios, 3 TF's, 2 GM's, 3 full "content" arcs. 5 of us completed Midnighters. I while LP'd to my wife who was working most of the weekend, went from level 22 to 36. Wasn't fast leveling, but all of those changes kept it from feeling like a grind. Therefore was fun. On the other hand from last monday to thursday, only being able to play about 6 hours, I was on 3 AE "boss farms" as well as soloed about 6 paper mishes. Much more of a grind-fest.
C) Actually I'm happy. When I'm unhappy, I don't play. I move onto other games. I got a game I go to for PVP (RF Online), or I try some new ones. Last time I left the game MA had just been Implemented. I16/GR has me back. Sorry. (Sarcastic)
As for Being diplomatic and being misunderstood. Sorry (Non-Sarcastic). I know people never read words the way they they were intended (read most of my previous posts... I don't intend to offend at first, by the end it may be different).
sometimes i really hate the forums...
No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded...
"The potato goes in the FRONT."
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I agree. |
Originally Posted by Gr33n
sometimes i really hate the forums...
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Now my question is how many of you who have 50's are willing to do a TF run Dr Q sked with a lvl 10 any AT race, and they have to do the missions not door sit?
It's SUPER SIDEKICK time!
Besides the FF Defender who would you bring and why?
Valor
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
Sentinel Of Liberty SG
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Level 10s cannot do Dr Qs TF.
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Originally Posted by American_Valor
I agree.
Now my question is how many of you who have 50's are willing to do a TF run Dr Q sked with a lvl 10 any AT race, and they have to do the missions not door sit? It's SUPER SIDEKICK time! Besides the FF Defender who would you bring and why? Valor |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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after I16 they will be able to, right?
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Level 10s cannot do Dr Qs TF.
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As I was saying because I trust Zombie and datamined this because I knew I wasn't trolling.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Presumably, everyone will Super-SK to the leader of the TF. It is unknown if you can use Super-SK to bypass the TF minimum. You can't use SKing now to do it, so, probably unlikely.
I'm not sure I want seven Level-1 toons Super-SK'd to a 50 and attempt a Recluse or Statesman TF. I'd even begrudge just one member of the team being level 1 and Super-SK'd into a level 50 TF. What are they going to do v. a +2 AV with just Brawl and a level 1 attack? |
Who will you bring to the DR Q TF superside kick race, trust me I'll figure out a prize worthy of this type of event. Hmm wonders if anyone would actually even finish the race even if a 50/50 combo.
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
Sentinel Of Liberty SG
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Originally Posted by American_Valor
I agree.
Now my question is how many of you who have 50's are willing to do a TF run Dr Q sked with a lvl 10 any AT race, and they have to do the missions not door sit? It's SUPER SIDEKICK time! Besides the FF Defender who would you bring and why? Valor |
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Originally Posted by American_Valor
As I was saying because I trust Zombie and datamined this because I knew I wasn't trolling.
Who will you bring to the DR Q TF superside kick race, trust me I'll figure out a prize worthy of this type of event. Hmm wonders if anyone would actually even finish the race even if a 50/50 combo. |
Unless I misunderstood Supersidekicking, the task force minimum level requirements will still be in effect. Dr Quaterfield minimum level to start is level 40 with a maximum level of 44. So if TF Leader is level 45+ all players from levels 40 - 43 will be sidekicked up to 44 automatically.
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I have a slight issue with that, granted if I'm reading it right. Only the Mission Owner can get the badge, instead of everyone that had/has a sidekick. So instead of up to four people working towards a Mentor badge, it limits it to one. Other than that I think this is a VERY good thing, especially for long time Veterans that bring in new people, they don't have to roll a new toon to play with new players or have players that have run out of Character slots.|
Originally Posted by Positron
Badge hunters in the closed beta have pointed out that some badges are simply favorable to get once you outlevel the content where they are given. Since Super-Sidekicking makes manipulating the levels more difficult, were going to re-examine the requirements on some badges, and lower them where appropriate. Mentor badge credit is still given whenever you are the Mission Owner, and someone is auto-sidekicked to you.
(These changes are currently being tested in the Closed Beta for Issue 16, and may be changed/modified by the time they reach the Live servers) |
Heh, no more tell at level 46 anymore!
As for low level characters missing out on accelerated leveling speeds, we are increasing the rewards they earn from level 1 to 20 (about 20% across the board) so that every player can get through the lower levels faster, not just those that know the tricks.
I've thought about this, and... I have to say I oppose it. Thing is, with each XP boost, the challenge decreases, and with it, the accomplishment as well as the new player's grasp of those basic powers.
I'm assuming the boost expires at Lv20 because that's where Stamina comes into play {heck, it's been mentioned 24 times in this thread so far}, but that's really a case of driving a hammer with a wrecking ball. The prevalence of Stamina is a symptom of lack of endurance, or rather the ability to regain it quickly enough. On the other hand, we already have a power that regains endurance as quickly as it gets, i.e. Rest. The problem is that it takes an unreasonable amount of time to recharge and activate, so why not simply make that power more viable as a recovery tool instead? Dropping the recharge and activation to a few seconds and throw in a strong taunt aura to prevent people using it in the middle of a fight, and there's a strong chance the endurance complaints will evaporate.