I16: Super-Sidekicking Explained
By
a tame rabbit,
Posted on: 2009-08-12 10:06 in Developers' Corner
A bit late to the party here, but a few thoughts that might not have been mentioned yet...
First, a possible problem. Consider that a character exemplared to Lv1 will have access to their powers up to Lv5 {or was it 6?}. Now also consider that your average Lv1 NPC will fall over from a stiff breeze. Therefore, the exemplared character will still have a major advantage over an even-con enemy, and still earning XP, so I'm worried we might soon be seeing Lv1 Winter Horde farms.
On the upside, is there any chance this might herald an eventual end of contact outlevelling? Since the characters will now automatically exemplar to the mission level and yet still earn rewards, the whole problem of "this stuff is too low for you, move on to your new batch of contacts" evaporates and reduces the need to fiddle with the XP handbrake to avoid outleveling specific content.
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Characters do not exemplar to the mission level. They exemplar to the level of the mission holder. For example, say you pick up your cape mission at level 20, but you're with a team and don't do it right away. By the time you start it, the team has run a few other missions, and you are now level 22. If you run that mission, you and the rest of the team will be level 22 and the mission will still be level 20.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
A bit late to the party here, but a few thoughts that might not have been mentioned yet...
First, a possible problem. Consider that a character exemplared to Lv1 will have access to their powers up to Lv5 {or was it 6?}. Now also consider that your average Lv1 NPC will fall over from a stiff breeze. Therefore, the exemplared character will still have a major advantage over an even-con enemy, and still earning XP, so I'm worried we might soon be seeing Lv1 Winter Horde farms. On the upside, is there any chance this might herald an eventual end of contact outlevelling? Since the characters will now automatically exemplar to the mission level and yet still earn rewards, the whole problem of "this stuff is too low for you, move on to your new batch of contacts" evaporates and reduces the need to fiddle with the XP handbrake to avoid outleveling specific content. |
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Oh, damn. So much for counter-obsolescence, then.
As for the Lv1 farming, though, one can simply create a Lv1 AE mission - one of the recent AE improvements allows the creator to set the exact level range.
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For that matter though, they could create a level 45 arc and have access to all their powers. A level 1 arc which actually present them with the least possible number of powers.
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Originally Posted by Quinch
Oh, damn. So much for counter-obsolescence, then.
As for the Lv1 farming, though, one can simply create a Lv1 AE mission - one of the recent AE improvements allows the creator to set the exact level range. |
- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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Yes, but keep in mind that lower-level enemies are also much, much weaker {as even con, that is} than their higher-level counterparts.
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From a farming standpoint though, it would make no sense. XP would be about the same, but ticket drops would be far lower. Don't confuse farming with leveling. |
Originally Posted by Quinch
Yes, but keep in mind that lower-level enemies are also much, much weaker {as even con, that is} than their higher-level counterparts.
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- Garielle
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme
I said "ur" which is not a word. It's a sound dumb people make when you ask them to spell out "you are".
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If someone doesn't want to be spam invited, they should do what I do.... go to friends, click hide, click the from invites button, then accept. No more invites unless they contact you (if you get spamed that way, hide from searches, etc)... Its a system that works wonderfully.
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Originally Posted by MarkUrial
So... I read about 12 pages, and skimmed what I could, but I didn't see this anywhere, and being the naysayer that I am, I thought I would bring it up. (Even though it doesn't bug me personally.)
Super-Sidekicking with the new system of difficulty and exemplaring is awesome. There are no other words than that. But... there are some players that really hate team invites, and now people will be spammed with team invites, even though they aren't the same level, because people will be more willing to invite higher levels, they would be assuming that the higher levels would be more willing to group with lower levels. This is not correct, many players have played so many lower level characters, that they have gotten tired of the lower level content, to such an extent that they would almost never chose to help with lower level characters anyways. (The possible spam is what there might be naysayers about.) Anyways, the possible upside is... people would be less tired of the lower level missions because they can find more people to do their higher level missions with. (Also badge missions wouldn't be too bad of an issue, because we can still earn xp's exemplared, so it wouldn't be quite so tedious to get the fortune teller mission done, etc.) So, personal opinion A+ issue guys, you have come through for me so many times, but I think this issue will have me day dreaming and drolling the whole time I wait for it. I think it will meet with at least 80% Approval, that's amazing in this game. |
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At the same time at level 1 you would have end problems, no usefull speed (unless you are 60+ months in which that adds to speed issues), so pling and farming would be dog slow even if easy, and thats not to account for lack of purple drops, no mish complete xp, and if they are a custom group, less xp for them having less powers.|
Originally Posted by Quinch
Yes, but keep in mind that lower-level enemies are also much, much weaker {as even con, that is} than their higher-level counterparts.
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If you did say lvl 15 so you could have stam (which is why people tend to want lvl 20) your dealing with mobs that are much tougher.
lvl 1 is very slow & steady. I tested it on test. It really wasnt worth it. Sprint is no sub for SS, SJ, Fly, or TP.
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i think i7 had was the best one ever. It was like a cupcake on a string infront of ur face for months. A lot of people actually leaved because it was taking too long, but once it came it was awesome.
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Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
issue 16 may well be the best issue ever
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@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Customizing the emails to put a stop on the spam is tops in my household. My wife and I both play and hate having to delete/spam 20-30 emails from PL & influence peddlers.
The power customization is #1, power proliferation #2 & customizing the email system #3, the rest of the stuff is bonus/perks/extras. ;-)
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No, you aren't mistaken. You are just a bit more insightful than others. |
Originally Posted by Leese
Maybe I'm missing something here... I don't farm or PL, so I'm not completely familiar with the mechanics, but the impression I had was that part of the reason (discounting exploits) why AE was a PLers dream was because it auto-SKd lowbies up to the required level. You're planning on doing this to the entire game?
I hope I have the wrong impression, as I love the sound of it otherwise. Removing the last of the restrictions around teaming is going to be a HUGE help. I just hope it can't lead to another AE-sized mess. |
You think PLing was a problem during AE? heh, wait till i16.
With that said I am waiting in antica.....pation! for I16.
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There are a lot more factors to AE farming than just the auto-SK. In fact, the auto-SK will be alleviating some of the problems with farming. Previously if you handled the SKing right, you could have people who were getting exp from +7 enemies. With the new auto-SK, the most they'll be able to get will be +5 enemies.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
No, you aren't mistaken. You are just a bit more insightful than others.
You think PLing was a problem during AE? heh, wait till i16. With that said I am waiting in antica.....pation! for I16. |
There are dozens of other factors too, like the ease of not having to travel anywhere and the ability to tailor groups to your specifications, instead of doing preset farms that may not be suited to your character(s). But the biggest draw and the one that's disappearing with i16 is the ability to make all-lieutenant and all-boss farms.
The combination of the one-rank removal and the SSK will probably see a lot of people returning to the normal game. I for one will probably cruise back to normal content since it'll be easier to form teams, and I can finally make use of my patrol exp again.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Yah, okay. I'm aware of all this. You're preaching to the choir here. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
There are a lot more factors to AE farming than just the auto-SK. In fact, the auto-SK will be alleviating some of the problems with farming. Previously if you handled the SKing right, you could have people who were getting exp from +7 enemies. With the new auto-SK, the most they'll be able to get will be +5 enemies.
There are dozens of other factors too, like the ease of not having to travel anywhere and the ability to tailor groups to your specifications, instead of doing preset farms that may not be suited to your character(s). But the biggest draw and the one that's disappearing with i16 is the ability to make all-lieutenant and all-boss farms. The combination of the one-rank removal and the SSK will probably see a lot of people returning to the normal game. I for one will probably cruise back to normal content since it'll be easier to form teams, and I can finally make use of my patrol exp again. |
I look forward to people returning to the normal game. I also look forward to these new "Quality of life" improvements coming out in i16.
But the idea of I16 "getting rid" of the the PL "problem" or the farming "problem" is absurd and..well, very naive. If anything this gives players a tool to PL more and Farm more content. I look forward to this; but from reading the AE threads i'm in the minority.
I'd rather see more content and old content revisited. Bases and Base raids fixed and more end game content to be added(fixed) so that I have more of an incentive to enjoy regular mission stories and SFs. However I have a feeling i'll be waiting for rogue. Which is fine, i'll be enjoying I16 untill then.
I think one of the big points to note about AE Farming is the "lazy factor".
AE Farming means you don't have to really travel beyond Atlas Park to level. You are more than likely part of an SG, so you can make enhancements/recipes in the base... get what you need to buy at Wentworths, never leaving the area in Atlas Park.
AE Farming is basically gaming laziness... and nothing more IMHO.
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How does this work please explain in detail the steps needed to do this and how does this affect SSK if were trying not to SSK the team? | There will be an option of having the old way of exemplaring, and earning extra Inf. instead, for those players who want to earn some more Inf. instead of levels. |
Where is the option of having the old way of exemplaring?
Valor
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
Sentinel Of Liberty SG
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It doesn't affect SSK at all; the option to exemplar "the old way" merely means you'll get extra influence instead of XP when exemplared. There IS no option to "not SSK" the team. |
Originally Posted by American_Valor
How does this work please explain in detail the steps needed to do this and how does this affect SSK if were trying not to SSK the team?
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| Where is the option of having the old way of exemplaring? |
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Yea thats what I figured. So its not really the old way now is it. The old way would have been sidekicking like we used to. Cause thats the old way. They should have included a way for us to make double prestige as an option like double influence which is something that I would have liked a lot more. As prestige is something that matters to me.
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Originally Posted by Hellguard
It doesn't affect SSK at all; the option to exemplar "the old way" merely means you'll get extra influence instead of XP when exemplared. There IS no option to "not SSK" the team.
It's in the General Options, under Miscellaneous. You can toggle between "Earn XP" and "Double Influence, No XP." |
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
MA #14724 Operation: Discredit @American Valor
Sentinel Of Liberty SG
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It's impossible for the old way of exemplaring to be sidekicking like we used to have. Because exemplaring is not sidekicking. All that was said was that we would be able to choose the old way of exemplaring.|
Originally Posted by American_Valor
Yea thats what I figured. So its not really the old way now is it. The old way would have been sidekicking like we used to. Cause thats the old way.
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An option exists to exemplar the old way. Which is to not get exp, but get double influence instead. This is the old exemplar. Just as advertised.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Except the statement you quoted wasn't talking about sidekicking, it was talking about exemplaring, with a qualifier about earning extra influence instead of gaining xp. I'm not sure how you were reading it to mean that the complete old sk/exemp system was an option.
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Originally Posted by American_Valor
Yea thats what I figured. So its not really the old way now is it. The old way would have been sidekicking like we used to. Cause thats the old way.
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you know the dev should made it so you as the lead for your team can choose let 46-49 to SSking the team for better xp for the lowbie toons. but I might get in trouble with the dev's, that my Idea for I16. :P
Nacht Nova Thunder = Level 50 (Liberty) Dark Blaster/Storm Summoning - Defender
Nova Ninja = Level 50 (Liberty) spines/ Regeneration - Scrapper
CanadianMan = Level 50 (Liberty) Super Strength/Invulnerability - Tanker
LibertyBoy = Level 35 (Liberty) Stone Armor
/Fiery Melee - Tanker
This was very helpful to me since I was not here for the launch of I16. I feel more up to date and less lost.
Mmm...
I really did not have a great issue with the introduction of AE, in some ways I enjoyed leveling all the way to 50 there, for it was convenient with regards to dumb, retarded and suicidal intra and inter zone travel. No need to be sent to enter a mission in an area of the zone several levels higher than me, no need to spend the next ten minutes switching zones and go to the farthest point in the new zone to enter the mission, no ambushes while trying to get to the zone and then mission entrance, no dying from someone else's higher level ambush, no more contact in zone one giving you exclusively missions on all zones but the zone they are in...
What I seen as a problem with AE, is the truly new player not knowing the zones and then trying to do TFs and being totally disfunctional.
I love the new side-kicking rules, awesome, no more being exploited by lowbies in TFs in order for them to get power leveled, while higher leveled players have to do the TF in order to get merits to get recipies they need because of broken, over-priced market system and they simply don't drop for them. Also the lowbies have no excuse for not earning their way as well...
Giggles
Stormy
fair enough the convenience of the quick SK to a level 50 for low lvled chars but what about making it an option to turn the SKing back to the -5 maximum SK to a level 50 (50 leader... with 45s still getting xp)
also allowing for MA the level bracket to also go back to level 45
i just want to suggest this as an option due also to lack of population on some servers and as a farmer i would find this an efficient option.
Thank You for reading
So... I read about 12 pages, and skimmed what I could, but I didn't see this anywhere, and being the naysayer that I am, I thought I would bring it up. (Even though it doesn't bug me personally.)
Super-Sidekicking with the new system of difficulty and exemplaring is awesome. There are no other words than that.
But... there are some players that really hate team invites, and now people will be spammed with team invites, even though they aren't the same level, because people will be more willing to invite higher levels, they would be assuming that the higher levels would be more willing to group with lower levels. This is not correct, many players have played so many lower level characters, that they have gotten tired of the lower level content, to such an extent that they would almost never chose to help with lower level characters anyways. (The possible spam is what there might be naysayers about.)
Anyways, the possible upside is... people would be less tired of the lower level missions because they can find more people to do their higher level missions with. (Also badge missions wouldn't be too bad of an issue, because we can still earn xp's exemplared, so it wouldn't be quite so tedious to get the fortune teller mission done, etc.)
So, personal opinion A+ issue guys, you have come through for me so many times, but I think this issue will have me day dreaming and drolling the whole time I wait for it.
I think it will meet with at least 80% Approval, that's amazing in this game.
Ooohhhh Snap - 50th level Fire/Kinetic Controller - Guardian
Frigid Hottie - 50th level Fire/Cold Controller - Guardian