Genericed character in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 .
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-25 12:34 in Player Questions
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It is pretty ridiculous to make a character that looks exactly like a comic book character, but I still wouldn't petition him. I did not sign up to police other people in-game.
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So, would you be upset if Marvel sued NCSoft again and won, getting the entire game shut down....and then you found out that it was because of a character you could have petitioned, but didn't?
I would.
I don't feel it's my job to "police" people, and I don't go around petitioning every questionable character I see. And with my comic book knowledge I've seen a LOT of them.
But in the case of the toon linked in the OP? Yeah, I would have petitioned that one in a heartbeat.
Any blatant ripoff of a character like that I will petition. Obscure characters, or clever homages I tend to leave alone.
The name, appearance, and backstory are all lifted from Marvel. Being a musician who has been ripped off before, I do what I can to keep it from happening to others.
(The material I had ripped off wasn't anything you ever would have heard. Two members of my former band quit and formed another band, using songs that I had written before they joined mine in the first place. They went nowhere, so it didn't bother me that much. Had they gone on to win a Grammy with one of them, yes I would have sued their pants off, as I have date-marked, recorded proof that the songs existed prior to them being in the band)
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Thats perfectly fine if you elect to do it. I am just stating, I would not. Something that blatant as shown in the link will eventually get noticed by a GM.
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I think that's a misconception. The GMs don't actively patrol looking for copyright violations. That's why we've been asked to do the policing. Simply put, the GMs likely won't notice, even if there's a petition by someone on a team with a violator and the GM -sees- them.
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Thats perfectly fine if you elect to do it. I am just stating, I would not. Something that blatant as shown in the link will eventually get noticed by a GM.
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Not if nobody petitions it. They don't have the manpower to have GMs actively patrolling for violations as well as answering petitions.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
Really? You don't think they have other ways of findings violations other then petitions?
They don't have the manpower to do it, they're not like EverQuest where they could delegate certain powers to volunteers who WERE able to do policing.
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Its called minding your own business. I mind mine but seems some people like to run around a virtual world and police it. Let the devs worry about it not take it upon yourself to ruin someones good time. Don't try and put a F'in twist on my words and state something stupid like " well going out on a Saturday night and drinking a few beers which is a good time, then getting behind the wheel of a car (censored)FACED.
Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shud up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
Even better how about me making a game or something for facebook call it "City of Heroes" but not super heroes but Policemen or Firemen were the stars of the game and they were stopping crime and rescuing the occasional cat in the tree. NCSOFT would send there high priced attorneys after me in a heartbeat.
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.
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The word 'Pizza' is not Trademarked. 'Hut' is not Trademarked. 'Pizza Hut' - IS Trademarked. You can't trademark single words. You could name your business 'Hut' or 'The Hut', although it would be a bland name, and not get in trouble. The only exceptions to the rule of single word trademarking are compound words. Marvel trademarked Superhero because it's a compound word. It's the reason why we aren't named 'City of Superheroes'.
Edit: Later Post from Catwhoorg:
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Pizza Hut Federal Trademark search
75 results.
Taking one example, note how its the specific design that is the trademark. the combination of a logo, and the words written in a particular way. A second one shows much the same thing.
Both of those included the disclaimer "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "PIZZA" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN"
Go back to #74 and #75 on that list, which are the oldest regsitrations. They are both 'typed drawings' not claims to text.
In fact in a quick review of all those 75, "Pizza Hut" as pure text is not claimed as a trademark that I could see.
Intellectual property laws are probably some of the most misunderstood laws around.
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The above proves that even I am not entirely aware of all the little details.
The previous example about Land of the Lost, the one your ignored, that one stating the reason why said name was not under Trademark infringement due to having no correlation to a desert and roaming dinosaurs, was the correct example. It's possible to have multiple songs or books titled after each other, so long as the content of the song/book aren't blatant rip-offs of songs/books of the same name. In the same way, it's possible for multiple businesses to have the same name but not fall under Trademark Infringement. It becomes a case of Trademark Infringement as soon as both companies attempt to settle business in the same area. In the case of business, and only under certain circumstances, you would be correct.
You're on the right track, but that doesn't save you from being wrong in this case.
- Fire Lilly
Edited to add information and correct grammar.
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
[/ QUOTE ]The kind of person who uses the word 'tattletale' is the kind of person whose mommy and daddy said 'Get away with whatever you can.'
Some of us were raised to respect rules and principles, and to think that when a person agrees to a behaviour, they should actually do it.
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True that. 
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Its called minding your own business. I mind mine but seems some people like to run around a virtual world and police it. Let the devs worry about it not take it upon yourself to ruin someones good time. Don't try and put a F'in twist on my words and state something stupid like " well going out on a Saturday night and drinking a few beers which is a good time, then getting behind the wheel of a car (censored)FACED.
Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shud up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
Even better how about me making a game or something for facebook call it "City of Heroes" but not super heroes but Policemen or Firemen were the stars of the game and they were stopping crime and rescuing the occasional cat in the tree. NCSOFT would send there high priced attorneys after me in a heartbeat.
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.
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You still don't get it do you Epic? Land of the lost in CoH doesn't have Will or Holly or dinosaurs running round with Sleestax trying to get you does it?? Hmmm??? No. That is a stupid correlation you made there. Yes I said stupid. Now, land of the lost in CoH is where the Lost hang out plain and simple. It's not a copyright issue with that. Argue till you are blue in the face about that and you would still loose.
Now about The Vision rip off... yea, petitionable! We should help "police" this game so it doesn't get sued and shut down and ruin the fun of all instead of "one".
"every defender needs to fight. I don't care if you have to use BRAWL!"
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Thats perfectly fine if you elect to do it. I am just stating, I would not. Something that blatant as shown in the link will eventually get noticed by a GM.
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Not if nobody petitions it. They don't have the manpower to have GMs actively patrolling for violations as well as answering petitions.
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But Marvel has the manpower to put people in a small online game to look for copyright infringements??
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Justice Company
Yes, they do unfortunately. 
"every defender needs to fight. I don't care if you have to use BRAWL!"
I wouldnt petition the person but I would tell them they need to change it before it does get cut by the GMs. That way the person could remake the toon while it's still a lowbie with a new name
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
[/ QUOTE ]The kind of person who uses the word 'tattletale' is the kind of person whose mommy and daddy said 'Get away with whatever you can.'
Some of us were raised to respect rules and principles, and to think that when a person agrees to a behaviour, they should actually do it.
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True that.
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Its called minding your own business. I mind mine but seems some people like to run around a virtual world and police it. Let the devs worry about it not take it upon yourself to ruin someones good time. Don't try and put a F'in twist on my words and state something stupid like " well going out on a Saturday night and drinking a few beers which is a good time, then getting behind the wheel of a car (censored)FACED.
Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shud up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
Even better how about me making a game or something for facebook call it "City of Heroes" but not super heroes but Policemen or Firemen were the stars of the game and they were stopping crime and rescuing the occasional cat in the tree. NCSOFT would send there high priced attorneys after me in a heartbeat.
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.
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You could not make a Pizza Hut that sold any kind of pizza, and make it in a state that already had Pizza Hut as a legally recognized business entity. That would be trademark infringement.
You COULD, however, likely make a Pizza Hut company that sold T-shirts. That would NOT be trademark infringement. It's why you can have A-1 pest removal and A-1 steak sauce operating in the same area. They do two different things, and aren't in even remotely the same business.
In this case, Land of the Lost is a trademark for a lost world where dinosaurs still exist, and within a very specific framework. Since the "Land of the Lost" in CoH has nothing at all to do with that franchise (no dinosaurs, no similar setting or characters), it is, at most, an homage, and not a trademark infringement.
If you want a case of two companies that have the same name, and do similar things, and how the case was eventually settled, I think that Burger King ran into some trouble with this in a city in Illinois or Indiana. The Burger King that was not a franchise of the Burger King that you may know, was created before the chain Burger King was established. As such, it was able to keep it's rights to be called Burger King in the town that it was set up. It cannot franchise out of that area, because of the other legally recognized business Burger King in the rest of the state. Likewise, the chain Burger King cannot set up a franchise within that town, as Burger King the individual place, has that name in that town.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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If you want a case of two companies that have the same name, and do similar things, and how the case was eventually settled, I think that Burger King ran into some trouble with this in a city in Illinois or Indiana. The Burger King that was not a franchise of the Burger King that you may know, was created before the chain Burger King was established. As such, it was able to keep it's rights to be called Burger King in the town that it was set up. It cannot franchise out of that area, because of the other legally recognized business Burger King in the rest of the state. Likewise, the chain Burger King cannot set up a franchise within that town, as Burger King the individual place, has that name in that town.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_...oon,_Illinois)
...I forgot what experience means.
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
Secondly ncsoft is breaking the very rule they generic us for.
Back in the 70's there was a tv show called "Land of the Lost" which has since been remade in to a movie staring Will Ferrell. This is also an area in Skyway City which is called you guessed it, "Land of the Lost". I'm sure Universal Studios bought the rights from Sid and Marty Krofft the original creators who remade the series themselves in the 90s. However I doubt that Cryptic or NCsoft paid for the rights to use this name.
Someone should report them to the copyright holder.
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You're kidding, on both counts, right?
There's a big difference between a homage and a ripoff. And copyright violations hurt everyone here.
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Seriously.
Eric, have you not heard of the Marvel lawsuit against this game, where they sued because you could make copyrighted characters from the comics? The settlement in that case pointed out that Cryptic and NCSoft (now just NCSoft) needed to take action against copyrighted characters. If NCSoft doesn't uphold their end of the agreement, we could be going back to court. That would siphon development dollars away to pay for the legal defense, which hurts EVERYONE playing the game.
So, yes, I think that reporting obvious copyright infringement is for the long-term benefit of everyone in the game.
I also love how people calling other people out for doing something wrong is being a 'tattletale.' Seriously, the person was doing something wrong. If they can't face the consequences of that, then they shouldn't have done it in the first place.
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Aett, too bad that's too long for a sig.
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
Secondly ncsoft is breaking the very rule they generic us for.
Back in the 70's there was a tv show called "Land of the Lost" which has since been remade in to a movie staring Will Ferrell. This is also an area in Skyway City which is called you guessed it, "Land of the Lost". I'm sure Universal Studios bought the rights from Sid and Marty Krofft the original creators who remade the series themselves in the 90s. However I doubt that Cryptic or NCsoft paid for the rights to use this name.
Someone should report them to the copyright holder.
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You're kidding, on both counts, right?
There's a big difference between a homage and a ripoff. And copyright violations hurt everyone here.
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Seriously.
Eric, have you not heard of the Marvel lawsuit against this game, where they sued because you could make copyrighted characters from the comics? The settlement in that case pointed out that Cryptic and NCSoft (now just NCSoft) needed to take action against copyrighted characters. If NCSoft doesn't uphold their end of the agreement, we could be going back to court. That would siphon development dollars away to pay for the legal defense, which hurts EVERYONE playing the game.
So, yes, I think that reporting obvious copyright infringement is for the long-term benefit of everyone in the game.
I also love how people calling other people out for doing something wrong is being a 'tattletale.' Seriously, the person was doing something wrong. If they can't face the consequences of that, then they shouldn't have done it in the first place.
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Aett, too bad that's too long for a sig.
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Short answer: petitioning characters isn't wrong.
I can understand that some people don't want to do it, and that's fine. But they shouldn't then get mad at the people who do.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Pizza Hut Federal Trademark search
75 results.
Taking one example, note how its the specific design that is the trademark. the combination of a logo, and the words written in a particular way. A second one shows much the same thing.
Both of those included the disclaimer "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "PIZZA" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN"
Go back to #74 and #75 on that list, which are the oldest regsitrations. They are both 'typed drawings' not claims to text.
In fact in a quick review of all those 75, "Pizza Hut" as pure text is not claimed as a trademark that I could see.
Intellectual property laws are probably some of the most misunderstood laws around.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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The word 'Pizza' is not Trademarked. 'Hut' is not Trademarked. 'Pizza Hut' - IS Trademarked. You can't trademark single words. You could name your business 'Hut' or 'The Hut', although it would be a bland name, and not get in trouble.
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Pizza Hut makes a name change
Pizza Hut is slicing the "pizza" from its boxes and some store signs. The fast food chain will now brand some stores as simply "The Hut."
Global @StarGeek
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But Marvel has the manpower to put people in a small online game to look for copyright infringements??
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Marvel indeed had the manpower to do so, and further had the manpower to create knockoff characters themselves (or their legal represenatives did) and include them in legal filings, which funnily enough were thrown out by the court.
Had the case not been settled, there would have been very interesting arguments made. Not least the fact that by doing the actions above Marvel (or their representatives) had granted NCsoft/Cryptic a "non-exclusive, universal, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable right to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with such Member Content, and all ancillary and subsidiary rights thereto, in any languages and media now known or not currently known.", or whatever the exact EULA phrasing was at that time (that wording is from the Nov 2008 version).
I would have paid good money to watch the Marvel lawyers squirm and try to argue out of THAT hole that they dug themselves into.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Intellectual property laws are probably some of the most misunderstood laws around.
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This.
I can run circles around people when it comes to patent law, since I worked as an examiner for almost 2 years, but I wish I knew more about trademark law. Folks who examine patents have to be engineers or otherwise knowledgeable in the area of technology they are examining, but trademark "examiners" actually have to be full fledged attorneys.
...I forgot what experience means.
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I wanna see someone get genericed in front of me someday. It's already funny enough when a genericed character shows up and everyone makes fun of them.
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I actually have seen this. I was on a cavern of Trancendence trial years ago, and we had HULK. on our team (lol) Mid mission while we are beating up trolls we all see him go running into the next group...then poof! he turns from a gamma green giant into a rainbow colored generic costume and is now named Generic 00101293784...lol
He of course gets furious and /RAGEQUITS the TF, dooming us to a restart.
I actually think one of our group was the one who reported him, and we all had a good laugh about it, although no one fessed up to being the narc. Needless to say its one of the funnier things Ive ever seen in game.
I cant remember his exact tirade before his /RAGEQUIT, but it was also epic. I just wish I had screenshotted the event.
<QR>
The Nissan family's use of Nissan.com is still holding out against being squashed.
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
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Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shut up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
Even better how about me making a game or something for facebook call it "City of Heroes" but not super heroes but Policemen or Firemen were the stars of the game and they were stopping crime and rescuing the occasional cat in the tree. NCSOFT would send there high priced attorneys after me in a heartbeat.
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.
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Okay, I'll give you another example:
Creed and Metallica both have a song titled "One", and they both have a song titled "Unforgiven"
Now, we all know how lawsuit-happy Lars Ulrich is.
If it were even POSSIBLE for him to sue because Creed used the same names for songs that Metallica did, don't you think he'd have done it in a split second?
The reason Metallica can't sue Creed (Both of Metallica's songs came out first, in 1988 and 1991, respectively) is because the songs sound nothing alike and have nothing to do with each other, the subject matter isn't even the same.
Now, if Creed had released a song called "One" that had a similar melody, subject matter, and lyrical content as Metallica's song, then Metallica could have (and WOULD have) sued them, and most likely would have won.
The point I'm making here is, you cannot sue because something uses the same name, they have to be substantially similar in other respects before legal action can be taken.
You are correct in saying that you can't name a pizza joint Pizza Hut, because it would be substantially similar in both name AND the premise of the business. And as it would be obvious that Pizza Hut had the name first, you would be sued, and rightfully so.
You COULD, however, name an electronics store Pizza Hut (I can't imagine why you would want to though), and so long as you did not ever sell pizza within the confines of your store, there's not much they can do about it. The most that would happen in a lawsuit is you would have to call your store Pizza Hut Electronics.
Land of the Lost (the TV series and the movie) is a fictional location that is a desert in an alternate dimension where dinosaurs still exist.
Land of the Lost (the CoH neighborhood) is a fictional location that is a modern slum in a larger area that is populated by a group of characters collectively known as the Lost. The neighborhood is their land, hence: Land of the Lost
Now tell me, where is the similarity aside from the name? There is none. If the creators of Land of the Lost got wind that there is a neighborhood in CoH with the same name, they may try to sue. I would bet that, if they did, the judge would throw it out of court, because there is no basis for trademark infringement, as they are not similar enough.
Being a musician I have researched this quite a bit, as it is relevant to me. I wanted to make sure I couldn't be sued for naming a song the same thing as another song I'd never heard of before.
If you're going to argue about something do your research first.
I did.
Edit: I just searched Android Data. Google was sued because it is a computer program that enables certain things to be done, in other words, an operating system. There is a case of similarity of both name and premise. The name alone was not the basis of the lawsuit, I guarantee it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
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Obviously, mommy and daddy never explained to you the concept of COMMUNITY and how people should look out for each other. Copyright Infringement hurts the GAME and the COMMUNITY.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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The settlement in that case pointed out that Cryptic and NCSoft (now just NCSoft) needed to take action against copyrighted characters.
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Incorrect, we have no idea what that settlement said.
However, during the discovery portion of the lawsuit, it was pointed out that NCSoft did take action when infringements were found, and that they did ask if anyone sees one, petition it.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Its called minding your own business. I mind mine but seems some people like to run around a virtual world and police it. Let the devs worry about it not take it upon yourself to ruin someones good time.
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The devs have specifically asked for the players assistance in identifying IP infringement. Accordingly, some people (including myself) will continue to do so. We don't care whether you approve. 
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shud up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
...
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.
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Someone should have told Sid & Marty Krofft that they couldn't use "Land of the Lost"
Use of that title goes back as far as 1944.
But please, don't let facts get in the way of your uninformed rant.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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First off why would you even report someone who did nothing to you. Obviously mommy and daddy never told you being a tattletale is wrong unless you have been hurt in some manner.
[/ QUOTE ]The kind of person who uses the word 'tattletale' is the kind of person whose mommy and daddy said 'Get away with whatever you can.'
Some of us were raised to respect rules and principles, and to think that when a person agrees to a behaviour, they should actually do it.
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True that.
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Its called minding your own business. I mind mine but seems some people like to run around a virtual world and police it. Let the devs worry about it not take it upon yourself to ruin someones good time. Don't try and put a F'in twist on my words and state something stupid like " well going out on a Saturday night and drinking a few beers which is a good time, then getting behind the wheel of a car (censored)FACED.
Whoever said that Land of the Lost isn't a copyright infringement because its a name or words just shud up. So if i were to start a pizza joint called pizza hut BUT didn't server pan pizza, didn't have a red roof, didn't look like a hut then there is nothing that could be done, PLEASE!!
Even better how about me making a game or something for facebook call it "City of Heroes" but not super heroes but Policemen or Firemen were the stars of the game and they were stopping crime and rescuing the occasional cat in the tree. NCSOFT would send there high priced attorneys after me in a heartbeat.
"Land of the Lost" is a trademark which mean that it cant be used unless permission is granted. Google was recently sued because the OS they use for their mobile phones is called Android which could have lead to confusion with the registered trademark Android Data.