Genericed character in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 .
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-25 12:34 in Player Questions
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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No, not at all.
But I don't believe there are many (or possibly any) GMs in the game unless they are actively working on something specific. With the workload that would come from 100-150k players filing bug reports and petitions, I just don't believe the GM team is big enough to just have people roaming around looking for problems.
Even if that were the case, the chances of GMs catching violators would be much, much smaller than than the chances of the playerbase catching them.
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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Not at all, but thanks for the strawman attempt. But they're not actively policing for bad names. They can't do that and still be able to handle the petitions and other work they have to do.
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Fight fire with fire.
Fight a strawman with my own strawman.
They can't and aren't policing for bad names, but somehow that is now your job?
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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No, not at all.
But I don't believe there are many (or possibly any) GMs in the game unless they are actively working on something specific. With the workload that would come from 100-150k players filing bug reports and petitions, I just don't believe the GM team is big enough to just have people roaming around looking for problems.
Even if that were the case, the chances of GMs catching violators would be much, much smaller than than the chances of the playerbase catching them.
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If they are that overworked, and finding bad names is such a low priority, perhaps we could lower their workload and not decide to raise the priority by filing more petitions.
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Players are dreaming if you think that your petitions are "saving" us from a lawsuit that will shut down the game.
NCSoft has to demonstrate that NCSoft is taking the correct action. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are not NCSoft, your petitions are not helping anything other than making you feel "part of the team".
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And too many violations left unchecked will undermine that "proof" severely. Their choices are to hire more people than they can reasonably afford to actively and constantly police for names or ask us to help them out.
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How many is "too many"?
Who is currently looking for this "proof"?
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1) Can't say. That'd take the lawyers.
2) Marvel, DC, etc, etc, etc.
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How big of a staff do you even imagine this would take?
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Considering over 100k players making new characters all the time, quite a lot. It's not really fiscally viable to have people whose sole job is to police names.
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One person could cruise the traffic zones of the servers and catch a very high percentage of violations if that is all they were actively doing.
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Considering most players spend most of their time in missions, bulls***.
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I'm fascinated that you imagine your policing is integral to propping up this proof.
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I'm fascinated that you think your spin-doctoring is clever.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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Not at all, but thanks for the strawman attempt. But they're not actively policing for bad names. They can't do that and still be able to handle the petitions and other work they have to do.
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Fight fire with fire.
Fight a strawman with my own strawman.
They can't and aren't policing for bad names, but somehow that is now your job?
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It's not our "job," no. You can't get your account banned by not reporting violations (unless you yourself are actively taking part in said violations, exploits, etc, of course).
Reporting violations helps to remove them, and removing violations helps the game as a whole.
Would you petition someone if they were using excessive cursing in a public channel? What if someone were harassing another player? What if someone was using an exploit to somehow give themselves infinite Influence, or Prestige, or whatever? Would you report that person?
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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Not at all, but thanks for the strawman attempt. But they're not actively policing for bad names. They can't do that and still be able to handle the petitions and other work they have to do.
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Fight fire with fire.
Fight a strawman with my own strawman.
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That'd work if any were used against you to begin with. You're the only one throwing them out.
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They can't and aren't policing for bad names, but somehow that is now your job?
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Speaking of which...
Not my job, no. Something I do voluntarily because it has been requested of me and because I not only care about the game, but also about IP rights.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Players are dreaming if you think that your petitions are "saving" us from a lawsuit that will shut down the game.
NCSoft has to demonstrate that NCSoft is taking the correct action. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are not NCSoft, your petitions are not helping anything other than making you feel "part of the team".
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And too many violations left unchecked will undermine that "proof" severely. Their choices are to hire more people than they can reasonably afford to actively and constantly police for names or ask us to help them out.
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How many is "too many"?
Who is currently looking for this "proof"?
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1) Can't say. That'd take the lawyers.
2) Marvel, DC, etc, etc, etc.
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1) So you admit that there could be far fewer than "too many"?
2) Currently??? How often is this proof submitted to Marvel, DC, etc, etc, etc?
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How big of a staff do you even imagine this would take?
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Considering over 100k players making new characters all the time, quite a lot. It's not really fiscally viable to have people whose sole job is to police names.
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100k sounds big. Of course, it doesn't tell us anything about how many characters are being created or what percentage need to be reviewed to consider the job performed.
It is interesting though that it is not fiscally viable to perform this task which is required to save the game.
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One person could cruise the traffic zones of the servers and catch a very high percentage of violations if that is all they were actively doing.
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Considering most players spend most of their time in missions, bulls***.
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Everyone's gotta level.
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1) So you admit that there could be far fewer than "too many"?
2) Currently??? How often is this proof submitted to Marvel, DC, etc, etc, etc?
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1) Never denied that. But, we don't know what the number is, and it's unlikely to be a solid number anyway.
2) Sorry, thought you meant who was looking for proof against them doing enough to police...
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100k sounds big. Of course, it doesn't tell us anything about how many characters are being created or what percentage need to be reviewed to consider the job performed.
It is interesting though that it is not fiscally viable to perform this task which is required to save the game.
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Game has to turn a profit.
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Everyone's gotta level.
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Which takes all of two minutes, tops. So there'd have to be people in every zone constantly checking and rechecking the zone lists to catch violations. How many zones is that on each side? Times how many servers? Do you honestly find it reasonable to expect them to have that many people dedicated solely to that task? Because it couldn't be done by a single GM even on each server zone-hopping.
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This thread is epic.
It should be required reading before being allowed to post on these forums.
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Would you petition someone if they were using excessive cursing in a public channel? What if someone were harassing another player? What if someone was using an exploit to somehow give themselves infinite Influence, or Prestige, or whatever? Would you report that person?
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Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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Not at all, but thanks for the strawman attempt. But they're not actively policing for bad names. They can't do that and still be able to handle the petitions and other work they have to do.
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Fight fire with fire.
Fight a strawman with my own strawman.
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That'd work if any were used against you to begin with. You're the only one throwing them out.
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I threw my strawman at your strawman, it was quite deliberate.
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I threw my strawman at your strawman, it was quite deliberate.
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...except I didn't use any.
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So Galactor... if you were being a normal punk who spray paints on houses and whatever and I called the cops on you, even though you being the punk doing wrong, I call the cops on you... I'm a rat? Or you rob a bank and I see or know you and call a cop... I'm a rat? hrmmm... 
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The situaitions are different. This whole name reporting thing is more like this:
You're in a desert, walking along in the sand, when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling toward you. You reach down and you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.....wait a second. sorry, scratch that. Thats the test to see if you are a replicant.
OK, its like this. You're in a nightclub. People are dancing. Loud music is playing. Its poorly lit. Strobes are flashing. There is a smoke machine. Across the room you see Galactor speaking with your ex-girlfriend Rebecca. They smile and laugh together, she leans in close and whispers something into his ear. She grabs him by the hand an pulls him onto the dance floor. Their bodies move in sync with the music. As they dance, their bodies move closer together. Flesh touches flesh and within you the rage begins to boil. She should be yours. Unbidden, you hand plunges into your jacket pocket and folds comfortably around the grip of your .50 caliber desert eagle... NO! Sorry, that would be if you were a psycho ex boyfriend.
OK this is it.
You're sitting at the bar in a diner eating a delicious slice of pie. At the end of the bar you notice a group of people playing cards in a booth. You don't know any of them. They aren't playing for money. They are just having fun. One of the guys at the table drops his napkin on the floor and leans over to pick it up. When he does so, he inadvertently exposes the contents of his hand to Galactor. Galactor may have seen the contents of the exposed hand, or he may not - it is impossible to tell for sure. Your sense of propriety is offended and you immediately stand up, march to the booth where the card game is occurring and proclaim in a loud voice, "PARDON ME, but I could not help but notice that when a moment ago you looked down to retrieve your napkin the VILLAIN sitting to your right was able to see the contents of you hand!" Your work complete you return to your seat only to find that the waitress has cleared away the plate containing the last bite of the delicious apple pie ala mode that you had been enjoying. You ask to speak to the manager to demand that it be taken off your bill. The manager is a balding middle aged man with a limp. He apologizes for the waitress's mistake He calls her over and 'corrects' her behavior with a backhand across her face. She takes in in stride. It has happened many times before. He takes the pie off your bill and asks if there is anything else he can do for you..... sorry, I got off on a tangent again. I guess I've forgotten the point I was trying to make.
Cheerio!
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1) Never denied that. But, we don't know what the number is, and it's unlikely to be a solid number anyway.
2) Sorry, thought you meant who was looking for proof against them doing enough to police...
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1) To listen to several people here, it sounds as if it is clear there are too many and this policing is crucial.
2) We're talking about current actions and current threats. At least I thought we were.
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It is interesting though that it is not fiscally viable to perform this task which is required to save the game.
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Game has to turn a profit.
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If this issue is so important that it is a threat to the game, then clearly, it is a threat to their profit and should be fiscally viable.
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Everyone's gotta level.
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Which takes all of two minutes, tops. So there'd have to be people in every zone constantly checking and rechecking the zone lists to catch violations. How many zones is that on each side? Times how many servers? Do you honestly find it reasonable to expect them to have that many people dedicated solely to that task? Because it couldn't be done by a single GM even on each server zone-hopping.
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Doesn't take more than seconds to decide someone needs to be looked at, so even 2 minutes levelling is plenty of time at watering hole type locations.
I don't know why you imagine there would ever need to be such over kill blanket coverage.
If you really wanted that kind of over-the-top-catch-em-all-in-under-10-seconds approach though, it would be much easier than you describe, take shifts watching the small handful of locations new characters can enter the worlds. Done. No need to mess around with every zone.
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I threw my strawman at your strawman, it was quite deliberate.
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...except I didn't use any.
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Except you did.
GMs CAN'T find name violations.
GMs are NEVER in game.
It is impossible for GMs to perform this game saving service.
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1) To listen to several people here, it sounds as if it is clear there are too many and this policing is crucial.
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To many, any violations are "too many".
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2) We're talking about current actions and current threats. At least I thought we were.
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I have no doubt that Marvel and/or DC are keeping an eye out for grounds to try another lawsuit.
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If this issue is so important that it is a threat to the game, then clearly, it is a threat to their profit and should be fiscally viable.
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Making less than they're spending is not fiscally viable. Especially when they have an alternative in the form of people willing to help voluntarily for free.
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Doesn't take more than seconds to decide someone needs to be looked at, so even 2 minutes levelling is plenty of time at watering hole type locations.
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But it does take more than 2 seconds to review every name currently in the zone.
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I don't know why you imagine there would ever need to be such over kill blanket coverage.
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Because that would be what would be required to even catch a fraction of the names that are currently caught by players filing reports.
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I threw my strawman at your strawman, it was quite deliberate.
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...except I didn't use any.
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Except you did.
GMs CAN'T find name violations.
GMs are NEVER in game.
It is impossible for GMs to perform this game saving service.
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I never said any of those things....
Seriously, if you've got to twist what I said to be able to argue with it, don't bother.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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"Hey, you might not be aware, but you can't make clones or ripoffs of "real" comic book characters. As soon as a GM notices you, your name and/or look will be gone"
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And how will a GM notice the offender unless players petition them? It's not like GMs just roam around the game all day and all night, on every server, looking for violations.
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So, there are NO GMs in game, ever?
Is that what you're saying?
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Not unless they are summoned. I mean you won't find a GM standing around Atlas all day checking out new characters as the pop in for the first time. Since there is no zone wide PvP there is very little generic griefing you find in other MMOs so there is no need to have one one duty in any zone. Offensive language and such is mined from the global chat logs once reported. You can eventually get one to appear if you have a problem in a mission with unreachable glowies or last critter on clear all missions. Now there are stories about a GM showing up to help a team with a mission problem and end up genericing a player that happened to be on the team with an obvious violation but again, you aren't going to find them standing around at ICON or Atlas or reading random character BIOs if there aren't any tickets to handle.
That's why way back when, right after the Marvel suit, the devs through the community reps asked the players to report suspected violations. You report, they decide if it's a violation. If you don't want to police, you don't have to but keeping the "clones" relatively low in number tend to prevent more from being created. They don't need to get them all, just enough so the game doesn't look like the attendance at a comic or anime con with streets full of Goku, Batman, Naruto, Wolverine and Ichigo clones.
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I was almost inspired by this thread to report my first violation over the weekend. I saw a guy named "Will Smith - Hancock" looking every bit like the character in the movie.
However, I only considered reporting him because he's a Will Smith fan.
Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river." (Kanz ol-Haghayegh)
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You know, it's funny, I think back to when I had first started playing. I was only playing CoV, and it was before having one game, meant having both. The second character I created(Long since deleted now) was almost a Wolverine, one I would think a bit on before petitioning if it was someone elses character. Nothing in appearance, and his name was nothing like Wolverine, but in powers. He was a stalker, with claws and regeneration.
At the time I hadn't even realized, and like most, I never(And still haven't) read through the EULA. I know the basics, and that's fine for me.As I was saying though, I hadn't even recognized the simularities, because in my mind he had a simular background, just that he leaned more to the dark side. But I'd never set up his bio in game, so I probably could still play him today if I wanted to.
Anyway... yes, I petition the violations I see, and no I don't warn the person first. I did that once, and got a ather long and curse filled rant, like some others have said they've gotten. Don't want to go through it again, esspecially when I just gave them a warning saying "Hey man, just in case you didn't know..."
Why do I "Police" like this? One main reason.. you're not supposed to make characters like that! Another reason is that it is a little insulting. This is mostly for the vets, not for the newbies who don't know better. But if someone makes a clone of.. lets say Deadpool, knowing it's a violation, to me, that's like them saying "See, I can get away with it and you can't".
As for the argument earlier in this thread about how Marvel has people who can look for copywrite infringment, but CoH/V's GM aren't in large enough numbers... well think about this.
In this thread alone, there were a few people who didn't even, or just barley recognised who The Vision is. For some people it was blatant and obvious. With the over 100,000 subscribers to this game, there is a wealth of knowledge, from the obvious, to the obscure. If a GM does see a violation, they might not recognize it as one. A GM might not know who Deadpool is, but if they get a petition in their email saying "There's a guy here who made his toon exactly like Deadpool from Marvel comics." That GM will look up Deadpool, and then view the toon in question.
I notice violations like this every once in a while. The Flash, Wolverine, Green Lantern, Captain America, and even Goku from Dragonball Z. And I report them.
You see them, and you don't report them? That's fine. No one is forcing you to, and if anyone says you're just as bad as the violator, needs to get a life. But don't call me a narc, or a tattletale, or even a jerk because I do report these violations, and I won't call you an apricot. Cause you're not an apricot.*
*Disclaimer: My most sincear applogies to any apricots out there that were offended by my previous statement. I like apricots very much, and just picked a word out of the air to prove a point. In hindsight, I probably should have said handkerchief. Screw those darn snooty little handkerchiefs, and the breast pockets they sit in!
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I reported my first violator the other day. Not for infringement but for utter vulgarity. The player didn't even bother masking the name, they included blatant vulgarity in the name, and the bio was nothing short of stating what they enjoy doing to noobs as if they were in a prison cell.
I mentioned to them they might want to think about changing the name before they get genericed. No badges, or anything. I suspect a trial account. I didn't get a reply to the whisper and they didn't come back to mercy to say anything. Hopefully they got genericed after the gm response but theres no way to know for sure.
I didn't warn them I would be doing it but I was proud to do so when someone has no purpose in a toon but to be vulgar for shock value.
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By the sound of it, a generic'ing would be the least of their worries. You -can- get banned outright for severe enough infractions on a name.
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Players are dreaming if you think that your petitions are "saving" us from a lawsuit that will shut down the game.
NCSoft has to demonstrate that NCSoft is taking the correct action. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are not NCSoft, your petitions are not helping anything other than making you feel "part of the team".
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Thank you for offering your *OPINION* on this matter. Hopefully you'll pardon us if we choose to completely disregard it.
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Players are dreaming if you think that your petitions are "saving" us from a lawsuit that will shut down the game.
NCSoft has to demonstrate that NCSoft is taking the correct action. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are not NCSoft, your petitions are not helping anything other than making you feel "part of the team".
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Thank you for offering your *OPINION* on this matter. Hopefully you'll pardon us if we choose to completely disregard it.
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You earn an Obvious Cookie.
Somehow I doubt anyone read my post and thought to themselves, "Now there's a new rule, I wonder how it got buried pages deep in a player's discussion?"
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Somehow I doubt anyone read my post and thought to themselves, "Now there's a new rule, I wonder how it got buried pages deep in a player's discussion?"
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No, but we have been laughing at you.
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Players are dreaming if you think that your petitions are "saving" us from a lawsuit that will shut down the game.
NCSoft has to demonstrate that NCSoft is taking the correct action. Nothing more, nothing less. YOU are not NCSoft, your petitions are not helping anything other than making you feel "part of the team".
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And too many violations left unchecked will undermine that "proof" severely. Their choices are to hire more people than they can reasonably afford to actively and constantly police for names or ask us to help them out.
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How many is "too many"?
Who is currently looking for this "proof"?
How big of a staff do you even imagine this would take?
One person could cruise the traffic zones of the servers and catch a very high percentage of violations if that is all they were actively doing.
I'm fascinated that you imagine your policing is integral to propping up this proof.