Genericed character in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 .
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-25 12:34 in Player Questions
On a side note, kudos on the Eddie Izzard reference in the avatar there, Blackrock. ^_^
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
This thread should be covered in jam.
Hi Guys,
so does the news now mean that I can roll a "Michael Jackson" toon without getting wacked?
Cheers
So many cats - So few recipes!
Age is of no importance,
unless you are a cheese!
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I prefer to create my own intellectual properties. Let published characters inspire you, but don't copy them. You will be noticed, and if it's by me, you will be reported.
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And exactly what is your moral justification for poking those badgers? Hm? Hm? 
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Hi Guys,
so does the news now mean that I can roll a "Michael Jackson" toon without getting wacked?
Cheers
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No.
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QR
I already posted in this thread, but I'm just going to point out that I don't inform the people when I petition them. They read the rules (or should have), so they don't need me to remind them of the rule when they break it. Plus, I don't feel like getting griefed when their character inevitably becomes Generic'd simply because they refuse to follow the rules.
To the person who says "mind your own business", I'll point out that we, as players, were specifically asked to help the GM staff out in this matter. This, in effect, made it our business. You don't play in a vacuum, so get over it.
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Hopefully, I won't see a naming nerf as a result of all you whiney tattle-tellers.
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And really, this sentiment above that I quoted is part of the reason I petition at all. It goes beyond simply following the rules and doing as I was asked to do; I get a small amount of pleasure from knocking children off their pedestals that they've built for themselves. Of course, I've always hated the "I can do what I want, when I want, and you can't stop me!" attitude more and more people seem to have in all the wrong places.
There are rules that you agree to to play the game. Follow them, and you won't have to [censored] and moan about being caught breaking the rules.
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Here's the entire quote, in context. I don't see how me taking one bit out, the bit I wanted to refer specifically to (to make it easier on the reader), damages any point I may have made. The fact of the matter is, this poster specifically states they get pleasure out of reporting people as a method of "revenge" for having an attitude with him. I find that to be bad form.
Again, you don't need vindication or satisfaction to report people, but for a lot of people, it is the sole reason for doing it. I know people that have reported others they didn't like solely because they didn't like them, while choosing not to report people they didn't have a problem with. I don't like double standards. If you report someone, do it because you honestly believe it will make the game better. As long as you stick to a standard like that, I have no problem with you, but I can't stand people who use petitions as a form of revenge or to feel emboldened.
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As explained, I don't view everyone like this.
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[...]and I don't get any satisfaction or vindication out of reporting people[...]
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I would like to refer you to your third post in this thread, as follows:
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If you folks feel good about reporting kids' characters, more power to you. I don't, and I shouldn't be expected to. And yes, there is a pretentious attitude, that whole, "if you aren't reporting people, SHAME on you" attitude that seems to have permeated this thread. I'm not going to report people unless I am personally upset over what someone did.
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Nothing out of context, nothing misquoted.
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I don't know what this is about. If you think I meant you shouldn't ever report people, or that I contradicted myself when I said I only report people who upset me, what I meant by that was, I would only report people who specifically harass or grief me, and then, the report would be that they harassed or griefed me. That wasn't me saying "if you upset me, I'll report your costume". I won't. But if you grief me, or try to make my experience less enjoyable, I just might report you for doing that.
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Hi Guys,
so does the news now mean that I can roll a "Michael Jackson" toon without getting wacked?
Cheers
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No.
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I still say that the Thriller dance would be the greatest thing ever for necro MMs
just sayin'.
And thanks for noticing the reference in my avatar. Triple pop-culture reference for the win! (For those not in the know, the other two are the Rejected Cartoon Movie, and The Badger Badger Snake meme from weebl and bob)
Current Main: Thudd. 36 SS/Invul Brute on Justice
50's - Bitter Hatred Bots/FF/Mu MM - Rogue Wyvern Arch/Elec/Elec Blaster - Stonewerk Stone/Stone/Stone Brute - GB Nasty Thugs/Storm/Lev MM
Power and Chaos!
Reading comprehension. It fails you.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
No, it doesn't. You feel good about yourself for reporting peoples' costumes when they act like douchebags. Whether you were going to do it anyways or not is irrelevent, because I wasn't specifically targetting you, I was making mention of the type of people who would only do it to "get pleasure out of it" as you describe.
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No, it doesn't. You feel good about yourself for reporting peoples' costumes when they act like douchebags. Whether you were going to do it anyways or not is irrelevent, because I wasn't specifically targetting you, I was making mention of the type of people who would only do it to "get pleasure out of it" as you describe.
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Yes, it in fact does fail you.
I report blatant violations/obscene characters, as I already explained. Them "acting like douchebags" or not has no bearing on my report and I never said it did. When they get all pissy when their character has taken a hit from the Gen-Stick, that's when I smile a bit inside because I personally enjoy watching when a kid gets punished for breaking the rules. This stems from a disturbing trend I've noticed some years ago about how "disciplining your kids is bad!" and as a result, far too many children are exhibiting their entitlement issues.
But you go ahead and think you're using what I said to make some imaginary point. You're fooling no one but yourself.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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Then what are these different rules and how are they applying to this situation.
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From Wikipedia...
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
1. The commercial consideration does not apply in either case. No one is trying to make money from a character or a forum avatar. However, the nature of the use is relevant. A character in the game is entirely and purely DERIVATIVE. The original character has a certain appearance, name, background, abilities. A character in the game has all of these aspects as well. A forum avatar has no background or abilities. It is not intended to be a representation of the hero it portrays. It is a static icon intended to represent a forum poster.
2. Item 2 doesn't really apply in either case as it refers to the nature of the original work and both examples here are drawing from the same original work (existing comic book characters) which are indisputably fictional.
3. This item is key - the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The infringing character in the game had the name, costume and background. It was a thorough and comprehensive copy. A forum avatar is a much more basic representation and only of the physical appearance.
4. This item is also relevant. If people can create representations of Marvel's character in another game, they have less motivation to play a game from Marvel. This has the clear potential to affect the value of their IP. Conversely, using an image of one of their characters as a forum avatar does not have this potential (at least, not in any way that I can think of).
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
And again, I wasn't specifically targetting you, and if you want to make ad hominem attacks and think that I was, go right ahead, but perhaps it would benefit your case to read the second part of the post you just quoted before telling me you were going to report them regardless (I know).
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And again, I wasn't specifically targetting you, and if you want to make ad hominem attacks and think that I was, go right ahead, but perhaps it would benefit your case to read the second part of the post you just quoted before telling me you were going to report them regardless (I know).
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You claim you weren't targeting me after the fact, because you were called out and suddenly you found yourself in a bad position. It was easier for you to take my post out of context and claim that what I said was somehow what "other people" do. Tell me, how am I supposed to respond to that? I said something, and you equating what I said to the effect of "SEE! I told you some people think this way!" is a pretty clear indicator that you think I'm making your point. Taking it out of context was only the beginning of your mistake.
If you're going to try to debate with me, at least try a little harder.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
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OCD has me smacking myself that you quoted me before I fixed my spelling mistake.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Hi Guys,
so does the news now mean that I can roll a "Michael Jackson" toon without getting wacked?
Cheers
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No.
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Yep - that name now belongs to whoever gets to inherent.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I never did target you, even from the beginning. Your post was merely an example I chose to use when everyone came in denying that there are, in fact, people who report others solely for pissing them off. It was your sentiment I was making an example of, not your "ethics" when it comes to reporting people. I never questioned your desire to report everyone regardless of whether or not they pissed in your cheerios. But the sentiment is there, and if it's there in someone who reports everyone, it's bound to be there in someone who doesn't, and I know for a fact there are people who report others simply because they don't like them. My friend is one of them, he reported a few people in Pocket D for copyright infringement because they were furries and he hates furries.
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I never did target you, even from the beginning. Your post was merely an example I chose to use when everyone came in denying that there are, in fact, people who report others solely for pissing them off. It was your sentiment I was making an example of, not your "ethics" when it comes to reporting people. I never questioned your desire to report everyone regardless of whether or not they pissed in your cheerios. But the sentiment is there, and if it's there in someone who reports everyone, it's bound to be there in someone who doesn't, and I know for a fact there are people who report others simply because they don't like them. My friend is one of them, he reported a few people in Pocket D for copyright infringement because they were furries and he hates furries.
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So use your "friend" as an example instead of taking a comment out of context instead? Quoting me did nothing but hurt anything you were trying to accomplish because you insisted on taking what I said, twisting it, and made it appear that that was my sole reasoning behind my actions. Coming back later and trying to claim otherwise is foolish. I don't care what you're claiming now -- your intentions were clear and I do not enjoy people trying to twist my words to make some kind of imaginary point.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
I thought using an example that could actually be referenced to someone people actually know, especially since, you yourself, question the validity of my friend as you show with your quotation marks, would be more effective than saying "i gots a friend dat does it".
Now, I apologize for using you and for making you angry. I don't think I twisted your words, but obviously you do, so rather than continuing the headache I'll just vindicate you and be done with it, especially since it has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion or my expression of it.
And again, to restate, here it is. I think using petitions as a means of extracting revenge or for laughs, or against people you simply don't like, is scummy. I don't agree with those who feel they're bettering the game by reporting costumes, but as long as they're doing it without double standards, I'll respect them for it since they believe are trying to better the game and its community, whether I agree with it or not. I also especially can't stand those that try to enforce their morals upon everyone, or think that there's some moral dilemma regarding what happens in a video game.
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Then what are these different rules and how are they applying to this situation.
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From Wikipedia...
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
1. The commercial consideration does not apply in either case. No one is trying to make money from a character or a forum avatar. However, the nature of the use is relevant. A character in the game is entirely and purely DERIVATIVE. The original character has a certain appearance, name, background, abilities. A character in the game has all of these aspects as well. A forum avatar has no background or abilities. It is not intended to be a representation of the hero it portrays. It is a static icon intended to represent a forum poster.
2. Item 2 doesn't really apply in either case as it refers to the nature of the original work and both examples here are drawing from the same original work (existing comic book characters) which are indisputably fictional.
3. This item is key - the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The infringing character in the game had the name, costume and background. It was a thorough and comprehensive copy. A forum avatar is a much more basic representation and only of the physical appearance.
4. This item is also relevant. If people can create representations of Marvel's character in another game, they have less motivation to play a game from Marvel. This has the clear potential to affect the value of their IP. Conversely, using an image of one of their characters as a forum avatar does not have this potential (at least, not in any way that I can think of).
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Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. #106 and 17 U.S.C. #106A the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include
1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. The nature of the copyrighted work;
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
That is the entire quote of the section from Wiki that you used. I do agree with your examples to the factors to be considered for Fair Use; however I do not believe that they trump the provisions in section 17 U.S.C #106:
#106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works
Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
(1) To reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
(2) To prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
(3) To distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
(5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
(6) In the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.
Now my original premise was not intended to be insulting. I was attempting to bring to the discussion the realization that unless you are an attorney, or a judge specializing in copy right and trade mark infringement than no one actually has definitive knowledge on the subject. And that those that are using non-original avatars may in fact be guilty of the same infringement that they are condemning others for.
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Now my original premise was not intended to be insulting. I was attempting to bring to the discussion the realization that unless you are an attorney, or a judge specializing in copy right and trade mark infringement than no one actually has definitive knowledge on the subject. And that those that are using non-original avatars may in fact be guilty of the same infringement that they are condemning others for.
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And in what way are the forum avatars being used in the game?
And please point out in the EULA where it addresses forum avatars.
Because it is a forum avatar does not mean it is out side the jurisdiction of U.S. copy right laws.
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You know, it's funny, I think back to when I had first started playing. I was only playing CoV, and it was before having one game, meant having both. The second character I created(Long since deleted now) was almost a Wolverine, one I would think a bit on before petitioning if it was someone elses character. Nothing in appearance, and his name was nothing like Wolverine, but in powers. He was a stalker, with claws and regeneration.
At the time I hadn't even realized, and like most, I never(And still haven't) read through the EULA. I know the basics, and that's fine for me.As I was saying though, I hadn't even recognized the simularities, because in my mind he had a simular background, just that he leaned more to the dark side. But I'd never set up his bio in game, so I probably could still play him today if I wanted to.
Anyway... yes, I petition the violations I see, and no I don't warn the person first. I did that once, and got a ather long and curse filled rant, like some others have said they've gotten. Don't want to go through it again, esspecially when I just gave them a warning saying "Hey man, just in case you didn't know..."
Why do I "Police" like this? One main reason.. you're not supposed to make characters like that! Another reason is that it is a little insulting. This is mostly for the vets, not for the newbies who don't know better. But if someone makes a clone of.. lets say Deadpool, knowing it's a violation, to me, that's like them saying "See, I can get away with it and you can't".
As for the argument earlier in this thread about how Marvel has people who can look for copywrite infringment, but CoH/V's GM aren't in large enough numbers... well think about this.
In this thread alone, there were a few people who didn't even, or just barley recognised who The Vision is. For some people it was blatant and obvious. With the over 100,000 subscribers to this game, there is a wealth of knowledge, from the obvious, to the obscure. If a GM does see a violation, they might not recognize it as one. A GM might not know who Deadpool is, but if they get a petition in their email saying "There's a guy here who made his toon exactly like Deadpool from Marvel comics." That GM will look up Deadpool, and then view the toon in question.
I notice violations like this every once in a while. The Flash, Wolverine, Green Lantern, Captain America, and even Goku from Dragonball Z. And I report them.
You see them, and you don't report them? That's fine. No one is forcing you to, and if anyone says you're just as bad as the violator, needs to get a life. But don't call me a narc, or a tattletale, or even a jerk because I do report these violations, and I won't call you an apricot. Cause you're not an apricot.*
*Disclaimer: My most sincear applogies to any apricots out there that were offended by my previous statement. I like apricots very much, and just picked a word out of the air to prove a point. In hindsight, I probably should have said handkerchief. Screw those darn snooty little handkerchiefs, and the breast pockets they sit in!
QR
I don't report violations (other then a$$-hattery) for one reason...I don't care. I work 7-5 MF, and the weekends I tend to the yard (Fing weeds + FL sun = ridiculous).
When I do sit down to play this game I don't really care if I see W0nda W0m4n running by me or Amazon Chick. I'm here for my amusement and entertainment.
Kudos to those who feel policing the servers is their right and serves a just cause. I just don't care that much.
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Because it is a forum avatar does not mean it is out side the jurisdiction of U.S. copy right laws.
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Whether or not some people's forum avatars violate US copyright laws, that's beside the point. The question that's relevant to this discussion is: does it violate NCSoft's rules?
To apply the above to the game (and thus, the main topic of this thread): Those of us who report violations such as the one shown in the OP don't do it because it's against US copyright law. We do it because it's against the EULA that EVERYONE who plays the game agrees to.
He'd have been reported immediately, right next to every Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Spawn and especially IRON MAN, as well as any other hero you can think of...
I can't stand that people will do something like this. It reeks of a complete lack of creativity on their part.
Admittedly, I've made a couple characters like that, just to see if I could, but I never brought them past the costume creator. This guy will get genericed, deserve it, and probably pitch a fit over it.
I prefer to create my own intellectual properties. Let published characters inspire you, but don't copy them. You will be noticed, and if it's by me, you will be reported.
Just bugs me.
Current Main: Thudd. 36 SS/Invul Brute on Justice
50's - Bitter Hatred Bots/FF/Mu MM - Rogue Wyvern Arch/Elec/Elec Blaster - Stonewerk Stone/Stone/Stone Brute - GB Nasty Thugs/Storm/Lev MM
Power and Chaos!