Forest_Night

Informant
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  1. Hellguard wrote: "Whether or not some people's forum avatars violate US copyright laws, that's beside the point. The question that's relevant to this discussion is: does it violate NCSoft's rules?"


    For the simple fact that a law supercedes a rule, it is extremely relevant if something violates US copyright laws.


    Hellguard wrote: "To apply the above to the game (and thus, the main topic of this thread): Those of us who report violations such as the one shown in the OP don't do it because it's against US copyright law. We do it because it's against the EULA that EVERYONE who plays the game agrees to."


    I am fairly certain that a team of lawyers drafted the EULA to comply with U.S. copyright laws; therefore your statement is rendered moot.


    Now please allow me to clarify my position. I am in support of full enforcement of U.S. copyright laws, these laws protect peoples ability to make money. I happen to be one of these people so perhaps I take this a bit to seriously. However my original premise still holds: Many of the people reporting copyright violations are themselves guilty of copyright violations through the use of copyrighted images in there forum avatars.
  2. Because it is a forum avatar does not mean it is out side the jurisdiction of U.S. copy right laws.
  3. [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Then what are these different rules and how are they applying to this situation.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    From Wikipedia...
    In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
    1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
    2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
    3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
    4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.


    1. The commercial consideration does not apply in either case. No one is trying to make money from a character or a forum avatar. However, the nature of the use is relevant. A character in the game is entirely and purely DERIVATIVE. The original character has a certain appearance, name, background, abilities. A character in the game has all of these aspects as well. A forum avatar has no background or abilities. It is not intended to be a representation of the hero it portrays. It is a static icon intended to represent a forum poster.

    2. Item 2 doesn't really apply in either case as it refers to the nature of the original work and both examples here are drawing from the same original work (existing comic book characters) which are indisputably fictional.

    3. This item is key - the amount and substantiality of the portion used. The infringing character in the game had the name, costume and background. It was a thorough and comprehensive copy. A forum avatar is a much more basic representation and only of the physical appearance.

    4. This item is also relevant. If people can create representations of Marvel's character in another game, they have less motivation to play a game from Marvel. This has the clear potential to affect the value of their IP. Conversely, using an image of one of their characters as a forum avatar does not have this potential (at least, not in any way that I can think of).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. #106 and 17 U.S.C. #106A the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include

    1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
    2. The nature of the copyrighted work;
    3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
    4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

    That is the entire quote of the section from Wiki that you used. I do agree with your examples to the factors to be considered for Fair Use; however I do not believe that they trump the provisions in section 17 U.S.C #106:


    #106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

    Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

    (1) To reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;
    (2) To prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
    (3) To distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;
    (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;
    (5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and
    (6) In the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.


    Now my original premise was not intended to be insulting. I was attempting to bring to the discussion the realization that unless you are an attorney, or a judge specializing in copy right and trade mark infringement than no one actually has definitive knowledge on the subject. And that those that are using non-original avatars may in fact be guilty of the same infringement that they are condemning others for.
  4. Then what are these different rules and how are they applying to this situation.
  5. "Different rules apply. Also, I believe some of the ones you're counting would fall under the 'fair use' exception. On the other hand, some of them probably do qualify as infringing - very few, though." -Ironblade-

    Unless you are a attorney specializing in copy righted material you do not know that “Different rules apply” or what would fall under the “Fair Use” exception guidelines. And just to point out, a single image can be in violation, for example anyone with a Mickey Mouse tattoo has violated the law.
  6. You know, just strolling through this thread I have counted more than 10 copy right violations in peoples sigs….the little pictures or videos under posters name….then that old saying about living in a glass house and throwing rocks comes to mind.
  7. [ QUOTE ]
    My impression is that the changes essentially are to limit the expressions of dissention and complaint of issues, attacks, or what have you. This is common on some forums but what does occur though is that you also gravitate towards a funneling of information that ammounts to affirmations of developers and community moderators and less of bringing real dialog and change when there are reasons of legitimacy there of.

    There fore what is created is an effort to control and influence the information presented and discussed. Best intentions may or may not be the reasons for it but the end results almost invariably are always the same: disappointed on all sides.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree. I fear the "goose-steeping" has begun. <-----Going to get modded for that I'm sure. But I still wanted to say it. And in case anyone is wondering; yes I have poked a bee hive with a stick.
  8. This is how I was able to do the various emotes that you are talking about. I took my WS, which is a lvl 39 (I do have 3 50's but I don't believe that matters) and went into Dwarf mode. I then waited for the bug that will occur that will make it apear that you have droped back to human form while in fact you are still in Dwarf form. At this point you can choose various emotes that already exist but they will play a differient emote, for example Dance3 will do that drum emote and sittable1 you will have a revolver.