oooh customization!
By
Airborne_Ninja,
Posted on: 2009-06-09 11:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Or, worse yet, Cleve Blakemore. He really knew how to compose a screed about the coming apocalypse or the failings of western civilization on the old RPGs usenet group.
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Hah, he still does.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Actually, they've said "no" to power customization for years.
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They said a flat-out 'no' in July 07, but have since said that they are going to be doing things that they had previously said they couldn't do. Here's the Timeline of Quotes:
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That was basically my point: The devs have basically refused to consider power customization for a very long time, but now they seem to be hinting that it's coming.
The timeline was nice. 
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As for Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning, have these been stated by a redname anywhere, if so I missed it, or are you quoting conjecture.
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I am certain that the Two new signiture characters of 'Going Rogue' have those powersets, & I'm pretty certain that while a 'redname on the forums' has not said it, it is noted in the press release of 'Going Rogue' (cant be arsed to dig up the link) that the expansion will include those two new powersets.
If the Devs are currently working on Power Customization, then it essentially follows that they cannot say when it will be in game, because they probably don't know: it may not be at a stage of development where they can say "We can do this for sure" let alone "It's this many months away".
On the other hand, if they are NOT working on it, they can certainly say they are not, if they wish.
I'd rather be pleasantly suprised than have it turn into another City Vault or even Cathedral of Pain.
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If the Devs are currently working on Power Customization, then it essentially follows that they cannot say when it will be in game, because they probably don't know: it may not be at a stage of development where they can say "We can do this for sure" let alone "It's this many months away".
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Personally I'd rather they were working on more compelling content than customization. Being able to make your powers prettier is fine...but if I'm still taking my highly customized, dark chocolate energy blasts through the same type of missions time after time...in a while the customization won't mean much.
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I'd rather be pleasantly suprised than have it turn into another City Vault or even Cathedral of Pain.
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I'm still not sure why City Vault was completely shelved. Could they not scale it down enough to make it workable? Aren't there other MMOs that have a website interface for character viewing etc.? I'm not a web programmer, so I have no idea how much it was 'hammering their servers', but I didn't think it was an impossible task.
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Aren't there other MMOs that have a website interface for character viewing etc.? I'm not a web programmer.
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WoW and LOTRO both have character web page systems, possibly others. But it sounds like the City Vault was overly ambitious in what they wanted to put on it, and therefore ended up failing completely.
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Personally I'd rather they were working on more compelling content than customization. Being able to make your powers prettier is fine...but if I'm still taking my highly customized, dark chocolate energy blasts through the same type of missions time after time...in a while the customization won't mean much.
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Also, power costumization will have to be a lot more than just tinting particle effects to cut the mustard at this point.
Changing cast animations for ranged attacks and changing melee attacks at the very least.
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Personally I'd rather they were working on more compelling content than customization. Being able to make your powers prettier is fine...but if I'm still taking my highly customized, dark chocolate energy blasts through the same type of missions time after time...in a while the customization won't mean much.
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Also, power costumization will have to be a lot more than just tinting particle effects to cut the mustard at this point.
Changing cast animations for ranged attacks and changing melee attacks at the very least.
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After rebalancing powers to take into account animation time, allowing players to change that time seems counterproductive.
We'll always have Paragon.
They would either need to have a bunch of animations of certain lengths and then allow you to swop out for animations of the same length, or have some way to speed up/slow down animations so that they fit the activation times of the powers.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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They would either need to have a bunch of animations of certain lengths and then allow you to swop out for animations of the same length, or have some way to speed up/slow down animations so that they fit the activation times of the powers.
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Or stick a pause at the begining and/or end to make up the difference.
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They would either need to have a bunch of animations of certain lengths and then allow you to swop out for animations of the same length, or have some way to speed up/slow down animations so that they fit the activation times of the powers.
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That too. I think it may be slightly easier balance-wise for this game than CO though. Since they claim you can change the way a power works in a drastic way..not too sure if that's really the case or just marketing speak at work.
I can't imagine balancing a game where a single energy blast becomes an AoE and then it does fire damage...and then you may want it to stun etc.
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They would either need to have a bunch of animations of certain lengths and then allow you to swop out for animations of the same length, or have some way to speed up/slow down animations so that they fit the activation times of the powers.
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Or stick a pause at the begining and/or end to make up the difference.
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Yeah, though that would look clunky.
Editted to remove sleep deprevation.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
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They would either need to have a bunch of animations of certain lengths and then allow you to swop out for animations of the same length, or have some way to speed up/slow down animations so that they fit the activation times of the powers.
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Or stick a pause at the begining and/or end to make up the difference.
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Yeah, though that would limit them to only allowing you to choose longer animations, not shorter ones. And look clunky.
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IMHO, they should just make animations of the same length and allow you to choose the one you want from a list. No alterations what-so-ever by the players.
"Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself." ~Midnight Flux's former boss.
There are usually two sides to every argument but no end.
Everything placed above this line is always IMHO, YMMV and quite certainly not to be taken too seriously....
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Im pretty sure PC is coming in Going Rogue
Im also pretty sure Going Rogue will be out around 1st September 2009, perhaps a little laster but certainly in beta by then.
Why that date? Its the CO release date. NCSoft will be very smart business people if they unveil an expansion that has most of the stuff CO has been marketing as unique to them (PC for example)
That's my business mind speaking, not my fan boi mind.
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In my experience, shiny widgets last about two hours in the hands of a teenager. Then they're not shiny any more. Eye candy really only works the first couple of times it is experienced. After that, you start seeing the man behind the curtain.
In the MMO marketing game, what's important is repeat business. As I understand it, in order to recoup the initial investment, your average MMO has to have its projected player base renew for an average of three months in order to show profit potential (not profit, just potential). In other words, if a huge chunk of the subscribers ain't coming back for more (cf. The Matrix Online), it's a wash.
It is this reason they (new MMOs) try to make leveling so darn hard. (I recall one figure being around 120 hours of play to reach maximum level for most MMOs.) Casual gamer that I am I've been playing for years and only have two level 50s. The industry has grown out of this for the most part, particularly for some of the more established games, but it's still alive and flopping on the fishing pier.
If CO is going to stand on its own two feet, it's not going to be shiny effects that are going to get it out of diapers. It's going to be solid game play and strong content. I admit, their potential is strong, but frankly, I'm not that big a fan of cell-shaded games. It allows for a lot of corners to be cut, though, so that's probably why they did it.
The other side of that coin is regardless of the functionality of the game, do they have content?
Then there's the shakedown period: are they ready enough to have masses involved? Is their offering good enough to keep people coming back? Is it so similar to CoX that there's no point? Are there game breaking bugs that just make people run away in disgust?
Is there really room for more than one non-Marvel, non-DC superhero game? From the money spent, I understand going through with it, as this was originally going to be Marvel Online before Microsoft and Marvel bailed, but still, was it the right decision?
Regardless, something as silly as changing the color of my eye beam ray sure as hell isn't going to have me coming back to a game that doesn't deliver a substantive experience.
Luerim
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Regardless, something as silly as changing the color of my eye beam ray sure as hell isn't going to have me coming back to a game that doesn't deliver a substantive experience.
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Nicely put. This post is the gist of a lot of the things I've been saying even in relation to new COX content. Fluff is still fluff. If you want to impress me long-term...make the core game more compelling. Expand gameplay options...not just costume options. No matter how pretty they may be.
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Personally I'd rather they were working on more compelling content than customization. Being able to make your powers prettier is fine...but if I'm still taking my highly customized, dark chocolate energy blasts through the same type of missions time after time...in a while the customization won't mean much.
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Also, power costumization will have to be a lot more than just tinting particle effects to cut the mustard at this point.
Changing cast animations for ranged attacks and changing melee attacks at the very least.
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After rebalancing powers to take into account animation time, allowing players to change that time seems counterproductive.
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Ideally we'd only be able to select power animations that are identical in length or longer than the animation the power has been balanced around. I would gladly trade up to a LONGER animation time even if it would fiddle with my DPS if it meant I could get some really awesome cast animations.
For instance, I would like to plant Cosmic Burst's animation on Power Burst, even if that means adding 0.07 seconds to my cast time.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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If the dev team of CoX is smart, they won't try to outdo either CO or DCUO. They will tack into directions CO and DCUO can't pursue, and develop in those directions.
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Would you care to elaborate on what directions those might possibly be?
I've been a player of COX since Issue 1 and I don't really see anything that's been done here that CO could not. Apart from MA...which is still a rehash of the same mission types we have had all along with player-made stories and custom critters.
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CO is aiming in certain directions for their gameplay, like all games do. Their endurance-building mechanic, for example, promotes a certain kind of combat that they are most likely going to build upon, and its unlikely they will attempt to add radically different gameplay to their base combat system. CoH could develop endurance management in a completely different direction to promote different kinds of gameplay entirely. In that event, regardless of the technology limits, CoH would be developing in a direction CO really couldn't - or more precisely wouldn't - follow.
Another long-term possibility is to leverage the archetype system. As much as players bemoan the archetype and powerset system as unnecessarily limiting, it does provide theoretical opportunities that don't exist in an open system. Its possible to introduce powers and effects that are either very difficult or impossible to introduce in an open system because of balance concerns or mechanical limits. Fundamentally, open systems have to obey different balance rules, which CO seems to have been grappling with since alpha.
Basically, every time you make a gameplay decision, you close off other opportunities. There's no such thing as an MMO that can do everything, even in theory. CO isn't a superset of CoH, nor can it ever be. The only question is whether the CoH developers can find the right things to pursue to take advantage of that fact.
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CO is aiming in certain directions for their gameplay, like all games do. Their endurance-building mechanic, for example, promotes a certain kind of combat that they are most likely going to build upon, and its unlikely they will attempt to add radically different gameplay to their base combat system.
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No two games will have completely identical combat systems. That's a given...and with their console aims...I can see where CO would try to make their stuff more fast paced. I hear they have blocking etc. I'm not advocating that COX attempt to follow that.
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CoH could develop endurance management in a completely different direction to promote different kinds of gameplay entirely.
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It's already developed in a different direction in COX. One I don't see them radically changing anytime soon without making stamina go away and adding end management to all powersets. Doubly difficult since several powersets already have end management systems in place and some ATs have access to them in both their primary and secondary power choices. So they would, indeed, have to radically alter the gameplay of COX to do something like that...unless they layered it on top of what's already in place.
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Basically, every time you make a gameplay decision, you close off other opportunities. There's no such thing as an MMO that can do everything, even in theory.
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I agree. My main concern is the MMO that doesn't try to do ANYTHING to expand its core game. And for a looong time now that has been COX. Prettier zones, more costume bits, missions maps and gobs of new missions wrapped in the same old repetitive mold isn't broadening your gameplay experience when you get right down to the actual PLAYING part.
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CO isn't a superset of CoH, nor can it ever be. The only question is whether the CoH developers can find the right things to pursue to take advantage of that fact.
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I'm hoping they can...but I hear all this talk of expanding the customization of the characters, and I get a sinking feeling that they're going to be playing it safe and boring again.
I hope to be proven wrong, but I'm pessimistic as heck at this point.
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As for Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning, have these been stated by a redname anywhere, if so I missed it, or are you quoting conjecture.
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I am certain that the Two new signiture characters of 'Going Rogue' have those powersets, & I'm pretty certain that while a 'redname on the forums' has not said it, it is noted in the press release of 'Going Rogue' (cant be arsed to dig up the link) that the expansion will include those two new powersets.
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From what I can see on the trailer at the 'Going Rogue' website, there is one guy with a pistol, which could easily be a thugs MM for all we know, or just a unique power for that character. Where did you see any signs of demon summoning?
As for release on Going Rogue, this is something big, with big challenges... I would have to guess at least 4-6 months after I15 is out the door, and a Christmas season release for a new box makes more sense then the 5 year anniversary... they want [u]new[u] subscriptions.
Just my guesses... so a very uncertain 'maybe' on new powers by October-November, at the earliest (and that is too long for me!).
After skimming through this, I really hope you guys are not suggesting this game do anything like CO.
This game has kept my attention for years. This game just needs updating. This game Rox.
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From what I can see on the trailer at the 'Going Rogue' website, there is one guy with a pistol, which could easily be a thugs MM for all we know, or just a unique power for that character. Where did you see any signs of demon summoning?
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Positron pretty much outright said that Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning were coming soon in one of those chat things. The trailer had nothing to do with it.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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From what I can see on the trailer at the 'Going Rogue' website, there is one guy with a pistol, which could easily be a thugs MM for all we know, or just a unique power for that character. Where did you see any signs of demon summoning?
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Transcript of the Positron Interview (First Part):
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04-28-2009 18:09:48 [Local] DR Mechano: is power customisation still pretty much a no-go area Positron or are there plans for the future in the works?
04-28-2009 18:10:37 [Local] Positron: Power Customization is one of those things that we couldn't do at Cryptic.
04-28-2009 18:10:48 [Local] Positron: thats all I'll say about that
04-28-2009 18:49:07 [Local] Duex Elfling: u reckon we'd ever see a Bo Staff powersef?
04-28-2009 18:50:11 [Local] Positron: Duex: Bo staff, maybe
04-28-2009 18:33:30 [Local] Sicari: Can we expect to see mor epower proliferation in new issues to come?
04-28-2009 18:33:34 [Local] Positron: Demon Summoning? Dual Pistols?
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Going Rogue news release:
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Going Rogue will also introduce two primary new fictional characters representative of this alignment shift in the game's lore: Maelstrom, a pistol-wielding hero gone rogue, and Desdemona, a demon-summoning villain who has been redeemed.
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After skimming through this, I really hope you guys are not suggesting this game do anything like CO.
This game has kept my attention for years. This game just needs updating. This game Rox.
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For me it isn't about doing anything like CO in a an attempt to copy it. Although it would be equally silly to NOT do something worthwhile just because CO does it by the same token.
About CO, I'm hearing things like more environmental interactivity, using your sideskills to build things to help you in missions and trying to better immerse the player in the gameworld...whatever other faults it may have(and they may well be many), you don't NOT do that sort of thing just to spitefully claim you're different from the competition.
I don't want COX to copy COs combat system...but if the developers finally decide to improve/upgrade the engine to allow for a wider scope of mission types, better environments and the addition of elements to help make playing the core game more compelling, then I don't really give a flying freem if those are things that CO is doing.
There are people who are happy with COX in its current state and just want more content, costume parts and missions. There are also people who think that the game could use new elements(myself among them) to make it more compelling to play. That the former will get what they want is a given...you've been getting that for the past five years. I'd just like a little more attention paid to the latter.
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From what I can see on the trailer at the 'Going Rogue' website, there is one guy with a pistol, which could easily be a thugs MM for all we know, or just a unique power for that character. Where did you see any signs of demon summoning?
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Transcript of the Positron Interview (First Part):
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04-28-2009 18:09:48 [Local] DR Mechano: is power customisation still pretty much a no-go area Positron or are there plans for the future in the works?
04-28-2009 18:10:37 [Local] Positron: Power Customization is one of those things that we couldn't do at Cryptic.
04-28-2009 18:10:48 [Local] Positron: thats all I'll say about that
04-28-2009 18:49:07 [Local] Duex Elfling: u reckon we'd ever see a Bo Staff powersef?
04-28-2009 18:50:11 [Local] Positron: Duex: Bo staff, maybe
04-28-2009 18:33:30 [Local] Sicari: Can we expect to see mor epower proliferation in new issues to come?
04-28-2009 18:33:34 [Local] Positron: Demon Summoning? Dual Pistols?
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Going Rogue news release:
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Going Rogue will also introduce two primary new fictional characters representative of this alignment shift in the game's lore: Maelstrom, a pistol-wielding hero gone rogue, and Desdemona, a demon-summoning villain who has been redeemed.
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Gotcha. And thank you for that! So what _I_ read into that info, is that both are probably coming eventually, but they could very well be special-character only for the 'Going Rogue' release, and not available to us until I16 or later... and of course, no one, even Positron knows for sure... features slip when problems arise, and problems always arise.
Basically, I have been trying to decide where my dollars go, and although I may very well be back eventually, it sounds like I can save myself $150-200 in fees until the game becomes fun for me again.
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Unless your Peter Molyneux or Derek Smart, then your promise that your games the second coming of christ and will come with free home baked cookies.
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Or, worse yet, Cleve Blakemore. He really knew how to compose a screed about the coming apocalypse or the failings of western civilization on the old RPGs usenet group.
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