Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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consider the possibility that you actually aren't supposed to have every badge in the game on one character.


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That comment is so outdated, and has already been proven to be a false comment by quite a few people.

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Really? Which of your villains has all four Patron Arc Badges?

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why does everyone (mostly) want to just blow thru content? It seems ost want everythign right now.. I think the system is great the way its explained... They only problem i see is for people ( the few ) that only play one toon. If i am hooked on playing a toon all my other toons will be earning rested XP, bonuses and other rewards. Its a great idea and system.

I like it, I hope it stays as is...

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How is staying logged off a character "content"?

We are getting a mission architect, new stuff in Cimerora, and whatever else is thrown in. We are getting plenty of content. Don't punish badgers for wanting to complete their collections. 30 days is too long.

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Adding new badges to the game punishes badgers?

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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.

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I'm curious as to whether the Double XP time for being On Patrol will appear in temp power form. If so, I would hope those that don't want to participate can just delete the power.

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The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

So... any SG/VG badges/accolades being tied to the Day Job system?


Edit: Just a note on collecting in general.

The 'I should have all my shinies in 30 days or less' defeats the whole concept of collecting as a hobby. Ask any serious collector of comics, stamps, coins, toys, etc about collecting and they would most likely tell you that it takes time, effort and a little luck. They would probably tell you that it's a long term passion for them and would caution that you're not guaranteed to get everything you're after.

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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

Oh, boy. We're going to need an intervention.

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well, no priest or fire fighter, so boo for that, but overall its a pretty robust system, anda clever answer to you know who's simple rested exp. plus the accolade powers are interesting.

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That comment is so outdated, and has already been proven to be a false comment by quite a few people.

My comment is 100% true because there are badges that aren't available any more. Anniversary badges and Passport for examples. At least one (Bug Hunter) is problematic. We also have to consider the entire discussion as being qualified to "all badges available for a given side" since we don't have side-switching yet. Oh, and we have to make an exception for the "Ten Times the Victor" series, don't we now? And Patron badges? Even with these qualifications, does there exist a single character who does, in fact, have every single badge a hero or villain could acquire?

While the developers didn't really design the badge system to actually prohibit a character from having all of his side's badges -- something I would have done on Day One to pre-empt this entire debate -- they've also made it pretty clear that such is not a design goal. Badges are as easy or difficulty to acquire as the devs feel is appropriate, particularly for badges that provide actual benefits. If you insist that you've "gotta catch 'em all", it's your problem.

Then again we arent you so our opinions are obviously dont mean anything

It's amazing how many people don't realise that.

"Why do you always make such a big deal out of things...haven't you learned, if it's not happening to me it's not important?" -- Murphy Brown

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

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consider the possibility that you actually aren't supposed to have every badge in the game on one character.


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That comment is so outdated, and has already been proven to be a false comment by quite a few people.

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Really? Which of your villains has all four Patron Arc Badges?

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A redname said within the last month that there's only one Villain Patron badge, it just happens to have 4 "flavors."

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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I for one welcome our new Dev overlordss....

I like this...a lot! Rest XP done right and a reason to log a toon off!

30 days is about right...I have a lot of themed toons where i have no interest in getting all the badges...Trollskin Banker for one is only ever going to get his Banker badge! And if I get a City Banker bowler hat......JOY!!!!!

However, the devs dont go far enough:

Logging out in Vanguard Base: Peacekeeper or Peaceforcer!
Logging out near a group of Hellions: Bogun!
Logging out inside Aeon Corp building...Scientist!
Logging out in the Longbow Store: Rent a Cop!
Logging out near the Lost: Derro!

Hours of fun for the whole family!

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Why didn't you cap it at a max 8 hours of off-line time per 24 hours or real time? This would allow people to play their characters, yet get the awards at the same time as everyone else.

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Why not cap being on patrol at another 8 hours per diem? This combined with the day jobs capped lets players play a total of 8 hours without interfering with the reward.

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The system essentially
a) encourages people to play alts
b) give more "casual" players (players who don't spend as much time in-game) a bit of an edge compared to more dedicated players. (edit: given that they divide their time among a similar number of characters, and that number is not sufficiently high to allow the player with more in-game time to play in a permanently "buffed" state)

Your proposed limits would essentially nullify both of those things, which if any of those things were intended (which seems very possible given how the system is designed) would be contrary to the design of the system.

Simply put, it doesn't seem like the system is intended to give every character the awards at the same rate regardless of how much they are played.


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a) We already have more than enough encouragement to play alts.
b) Casual and dedicated players should be equal in this respect, and neither one given an advantage.

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Says you.
The system does not seem to be designed with that intent.

As an example, let's just look at the Patrol double-XP. If the intent was to give every character the exact same benefit, then why not just universally boost XP gain instead?


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Why the fudge 30 days? Given that an in game day is 30 minutes, that means if you have to spend 720 hours off-line your character has "worked" 1,440 hours to get a single badge. I'm a fan of "nice round numbers", but yikes.

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I don't see how that's relevant. 30 days was likely chosen because it was deemed to be an appropriate real-time "investment" for the rewards in question (or at least a good starting point). It can be debated if 30 days really is appropriate, but I strongly doubt that the number of "in-game days" was ever considered, nor do I feel that it should be.

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Why compare the offline-time required to get a badge to the online-time spent getting to 50?
I could see why someone might be interested in comparing it to the off-line time (time since creation - online-time) an average character spends before getting to 50, but why would a comparison to online-time be interesting?

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Tell that to nearly anyone on Virtue. The Role-Play factor is something that might need to be addressed as this is essentially a Role-Play award.

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As important as concept can be, not every game mechanic introduced can fit 100% with every individual RP concept.

For 100% fidelity, the amount of time required for the badges would also have to vary from badge to badge. Becoming an intern doesn't take quite as long as becoming a professor, does it?

Simplicity and "investments" that are in some way proportionate to the rewards would seem to take priority in this case.


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Double XP does a level 50 how much good?

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If it doesn't do any good, would that be a problem?

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A reward that isn't a reward is a problem. A big one.

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What if it's not intended to give a reward to level 50s?
Must all rewards apply to all characters?

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To throw potential future changes into the mix: if side switching is on the cards, are the job badges interchangeable or unique to each side? If they are interchangeable, then is it just the accolades that would flip? If they are unique, does this mean you'd have to start again from scratch on your new side to earn all the day job badges and accolades?

I really like the idea. Rested XP is a good thing. The Day Jobs are a good thing. But I think the time required offline is too extensive. As someone who plays a limited numbers of characters (and realistically, only has one main they'd focus on getting all the Day Job badges / accolades) this kind of system actually encourages me not to start another alt, but to find another game to play while my characters earn their day job badges.

... which may be the point - my sub fee rolls in and I don't cost anything in bandwidth - but it gets me looking elsewhere by default.

Ultimately I don't think there would be much harm done to the Day Job system if earning requirements were halved to 5 days for maximum benefit and 15 days for badge. Which would then see the optimal Day Job grinder (who paradoxically is grinding by not even playing!) get an accolade every month. That they then wouldn't use, because they'd be grinding the next badge out.

Also, when it says "two hour bonus", does it mean "two hours real time" or "two hours of in-game play"?

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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.

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This makes a lot of sense to me. Let's dump the whole mechanic that gives a little bonus to folks, something else to do in the game, and throws the RPers a bone, because it may interfere with a few folks' obsessive compulsion.

I wouldn't mind if the amount of time to earn the badge is reduced, but to me this is like getting something for nothing. There's no downside.

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Global name: @k26dp

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I'm curious as to whether the Double XP time for being On Patrol will appear in temp power form. If so, I would hope those that don't want to participate can just delete the power.

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I hope so as well. Especially if I'm trying not to outlevel a contact before getting their story arc or badge mission. The only time I would want double XP is if when I've done all the content for a particular tier of contacts and just want to get to the next group.

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I don't think the 2xXP thing shows up as a temp power. The article says it recolors your experience bar differently (light blue) the way that debt colors it red.

But I'm with you, I'd rather not have the double experience bonus. I tend to play my 50s on 2xXP Weekends. I don't like to rush through the game.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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I am surprised over and over at how much people complain.

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What do you expect?! The sky is friggin' falling!!

...What, it's not?

Well, why the hell not?! I just bought my emergency sky-is-falling kit and everything! I swear, you can't depend on anybody these days but yourself.

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"Always remember that you're unique -- just like everybody else."

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why does everyone (mostly) want to just blow thru content? It seems ost want everythign right now.. I think the system is great the way its explained... They only problem i see is for people ( the few ) that only play one toon. If i am hooked on playing a toon all my other toons will be earning rested XP, bonuses and other rewards. Its a great idea and system.

I like it, I hope it stays as is...

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How is staying logged off a character "content"?

We are getting a mission architect, new stuff in Cimerora, and whatever else is thrown in. We are getting plenty of content. Don't punish badgers for wanting to complete their collections. 30 days is too long.

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Adding new badges to the game punishes badgers?

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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.

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Only to those who lack patience. Unlike some other badges, you're *guaranteed* to eventually collect all of these. It's no different than veteran badges.

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue

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Double XP does a level 50 how much good?

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irrelevant when everyone doesn't have a 50.

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I don't think the 2xXP thing shows up as a temp power. The article says it recolors your experience bar differently (light blue) the way that debt colors it red.

But I'm with you, I'd rather not have the double experience bonus. I tend to play my 50s on 2xXP Weekends. I don't like to rush through the game.

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I wonder if they could throw in an area where if you log out there, you don't get the double xp? Not ideal because you wouldn't have the flexibility to get whatever job you want in that area, but at least it would be an option.

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Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue

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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.

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Agreed. My OCD has been screaming full-force in the back of my head since the original Issue 13 announcement over this. I thought this idea was just bad from the beginning.

I can't stand the idea of paying to not play. $15 a month to game whenever I want? Sure, fine, great, sign me up.

$15 a month for a badge, but I can't play my character and get the badge? Now we've got issues.

And for the "hurray, free <bleepity!> for nothing!" crowd, nothing is ever free. If you choose to actively pursue any of these rewards, then you're paying an opportunity cost.

It's one thing to say, "I'm going to grandma's for a week, so I'll park Super Buffalo Man in the hospital to get some Medical Specialist credit." It's another entirely to say, "I'd rather play Super Buffalo Man, but he's gotta work on that badge (or whatever reward you're going for), so to maximize his earnings, I'll play a different character that I'm really not as much in the mood to play."

This is a GAME. Please let us actually play it, without penalizing badgers?

(The sad thing is, if they gave me the option of just paying $15 for each of these badges, I probably would, and I'd feel a lot better about it than I do about not playing my mains for over a year while they *cough* "earn" the badges.)

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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I am surprised over and over at how much people complain. This is suppose to be a mini-game to play while ur logged out. Not somethin u have to do as fast as possible, its extra stuff. Why does everyone want everythin instantly? I hear people complain about how that ruined other games becuase of people wantin everythin now now. Calm down it suppose to take time to get rewards, why dont u just complain it takes a year to get the 12 month badge and how bout the devs make it only 6 months while ur all at it. I think this is a sweet thing to add that gives us somethin in which we used to get nothin, not playin.

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A mini game? I didn't know I was playing WHILE I AM LOGGED OFF!

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Wait, this all happens while you're logged off? Man, I totally missed that. That changes everything. I mean, rewards for time that I'm kinda paying for anyway but could never use because I lack the commitment to be logged in all day, every day? I would have totally not gotten that without your clever use of the CAPS LOCK key.




(Or, to be serious... I think that everyone understands that it is a reward for time that you aren't logged in, and shouting something that was contained in the information that you quoted was unnecessary. I get some of the negative reactions to this, based on the time frame that's been proposed, but to complain about being rewarded for time you aren't using the service is just about the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth, to me. As such, while I wouldn't be bothered if they knocked 5-10 days off the total time to earn each badge, I honestly don't understand the level of vitriol being exhibited over this proposed implementation. The system isn't going to be scrapped entirely, the badges aren't going to be removed now that they've included them in a press release, so the feedback should center on the mechanics and not waste time critiquing the idea itself.)

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My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

I was hoping to be able to get extra Vanguard Merits for hanging out there.

Still, I'm not complaining.

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Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind

OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!

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It's no different than veteran badges.

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Don't ask me how I feel about veteran badges.

I don't have a problem with 30 days per badge as such; that sounds about right. Nor do I think we should be able to get all the badges quickly. I _do_ think that it taking over a year to earn all the badges from day jobs sounds excessive. Given the nature of the badges I would put the "ideal" time frame at 6 months to a year total.

The issue to me is not the time to earn one badge. It's the fact that, unlike pretty much every other badge (except perhaps the vet badges), these badges are all mutually exclusive on earning time. You can't work on two at once; you can only switch between one or another. (I know, you can't kill more than one enemy at a time. But you can be looking for more than one.)

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I see one thing at least that will destroy the large insp market. That's kinda ungood but oh well.

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Hmm, the only thing I can see being kind of annoying is the 30 day thing, maybe cut it by half to 15 days, or maybe...

The first day job badge is 5 days, the second is 10, the third is 15, the forth is 20, the fifth is 25, and finally, the rest (And the cap) is 30 days. Might give players a little incentive to at least see what its about, and if they want to continue, well then they can put in the effort by logging off for X amount of time.

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I was hoping to be able to get extra Vanguard Merits for hanging out there.

Still, I'm not complaining.

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list isn't complete, so ya never know

50's I play the most...they're going for Inf bonus, other toons I'm lvling up will probably go for salvage drop bonus.

anyone else know what day job they want?

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