Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2008-10-09 16:16 in Developers' Corner
I have an idea why dont you (the devs) just start sell us badges!
I mean you are selling us all kinds of other crap why not move to badges? If people don't like the time sink then hey pop down 10 bucks and get the badge you want. Buy three and get a discount!
Just in case some of you missed it that was sarcasm.
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The whole system would seem to lose it's meaning pretty fast if it would take a relatively short amount of time to complete every job.
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Sigh, you missed the point as well.
720 hours of play is more than enough time to get to level 50. 240 hours for 2 hours of bonus seems a bit off too.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
What's the time limit before the market eats your stuff? I don't want to leave a character "working" offline to get a badge or cool power just to log back in and discover I've gone bankrupt.
MA Arc: School Spirit #89349
Original member of the Dream Team Aeon, Virtue division
"A base here or there is a small price to pay for good mad science."--Arbiter Daos
I am surprised over and over at how much people complain. This is suppose to be a mini-game to play while ur logged out. Not somethin u have to do as fast as possible, its extra stuff. Why does everyone want everythin instantly? I hear people complain about how that ruined other games becuase of people wantin everythin now now. Calm down it suppose to take time to get rewards, why dont u just complain it takes a year to get the 12 month badge and how bout the devs make it only 6 months while ur all at it. I think this is a sweet thing to add that gives us somethin in which we used to get nothin, not playin.
The 30-day badges worry me, but also I can already imagine the hordes of min/max-ers, farmers and build critics getting their hands on this...
(even if the devs do make all the jobs perfectly balanced against one another)
"im teh healzor I tok alchemist"
"dont tak professor, midniter is teh bestest!!!"
"U tok scientist? LOL noob!"
I shudder in horror.
An MMO closure is definitely not a joke, and I have no intention of making light of it. And it can be a tough and emotional thing for players to go through, speaking from personal experience. And I know that it's often much harder on the developers than on the publisher. However, I also know that it doesn't necessarily turn you into a sad, depressed sack of tears for the rest of your life. People can move past it, and heal.
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That seems obvious if you start thinking like you are roleplaying and not accumulating "score" in some game you made up for yourself. Having badges for specific jobs allows a specific reward for playing your character consistently: If you play a doctor, and consistently log out in the hospital, you will soon start to get more rewards from logging out in the hospital than would a roll-player who goes there because they currently want that reward.
It's about time an MMO company started making mechanics that rewarded people for role-playing. Too many things that coudl be done along those lines are too exploitable. (For example, a real superhero does not say to the old lady who is being mugged, "I'm sorry ma'am. I don't get any exp for helping you so you can just suffer." But if there were any reward at all for defeating gray enemies, some rollplayer would exploit it so there isn't.)
I like this idea on many levels, but most especially because it's a tangible incentive to roleplay characters at least a tiny bit.
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No you see real RPing would make you take on a job in game and grind it while not in control of your superpowers. So if you are a cop you get a gun attack and a pistol whip and that's it. You have to then pick the night or day time to do this job then the other time you can use your superhero powers. If you are late to work by not reporting to your supervisor then you get debt.
The longer you do the job the more xp your earn for that job which gives you extra powers in your job and badges. THATS RPing in a game not logging out and pretending you are doing a job.
First Take:
I'm glad that it's 30 days and not 5, last thing that I think this game needs in the whole gaming populace having every Accolade power assaociated with that system inside of a couple months (in addition to having most, if not all, the temp bonuses at close to maximumm output at one time). That was my main worry when Day Jobs was being explained.
If it was to be shortened, no less than 15 days (although I'm partial to 20).
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I am surprised over and over at how much people complain. This is suppose to be a mini-game to play while ur logged out. Not somethin u have to do as fast as possible, its extra stuff. Why does everyone want everythin instantly? I hear people complain about how that ruined other games becuase of people wantin everythin now now. Calm down it suppose to take time to get rewards, why dont u just complain it takes a year to get the 12 month badge and how bout the devs make it only 6 months while ur all at it. I think this is a sweet thing to add that gives us somethin in which we used to get nothin, not playin.
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A mini game? I didn't know I was playing WHILE I AM LOGGED OFF!
Don't know for sure if this has been brought up already or not, But regarding the "On Patrol" double XP, If your a 50, will you get double Inf or Prestige?
If not, I think that should be added 
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That seems obvious if you start thinking like you are roleplaying and not accumulating "score" in some game you made up for yourself. Having badges for specific jobs allows a specific reward for playing your character consistently: If you play a doctor, and consistently log out in the hospital, you will soon start to get more rewards from logging out in the hospital than would a roll-player who goes there because they currently want that reward.
It's about time an MMO company started making mechanics that rewarded people for role-playing. Too many things that coudl be done along those lines are too exploitable. (For example, a real superhero does not say to the old lady who is being mugged, "I'm sorry ma'am. I don't get any exp for helping you so you can just suffer." But if there were any reward at all for defeating gray enemies, some rollplayer would exploit it so there isn't.)
I like this idea on many levels, but most especially because it's a tangible incentive to roleplay characters at least a tiny bit.
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No you see real RPing would make you take on a job in game and grind it while not in control of your superpowers. So if you are a cop you get a gun attack and a pistol whip and that's it. You have to then pick the night or day time to do this job then the other time you can use your superhero powers. If you are late to work by not reporting to your supervisor then you get debt.
The longer you do the job the more xp your earn for that job which gives you extra powers in your job and badges. THATS RPing in a game not logging out and pretending you are doing a job.
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I totally wanted to grind for the 'File TPS reports' badge.
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i remember seeing some where that the day job badges were linked to costumes
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Day job badges are NOT linked to costumes.
The day job related costumes are free, unlocked at the start, content in Issue 13.
And the 30 days is what we are initially going with. The values may change in beta.
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Um...that would only be testable if beta lasts longer than 30 days.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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That seems obvious if you start thinking like you are roleplaying and not accumulating "score" in some game you made up for yourself. Having badges for specific jobs allows a specific reward for playing your character consistently: If you play a doctor, and consistently log out in the hospital, you will soon start to get more rewards from logging out in the hospital than would a roll-player who goes there because they currently want that reward.
It's about time an MMO company started making mechanics that rewarded people for role-playing. Too many things that coudl be done along those lines are too exploitable. (For example, a real superhero does not say to the old lady who is being mugged, "I'm sorry ma'am. I don't get any exp for helping you so you can just suffer." But if there were any reward at all for defeating gray enemies, some rollplayer would exploit it so there isn't.)
I like this idea on many levels, but most especially because it's a tangible incentive to roleplay characters at least a tiny bit.
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No you see real RPing would make you take on a job in game and grind it while not in control of your superpowers. So if you are a cop you get a gun attack and a pistol whip and that's it. You have to then pick the night or day time to do this job then the other time you can use your superhero powers. If you are late to work by not reporting to your supervisor then you get debt.
The longer you do the job the more xp your earn for that job which gives you extra powers in your job and badges. THATS RPing in a game not logging out and pretending you are doing a job.
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I totally wanted to grind for the 'File TPS reports' badge.
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Yes but you get debt because you forgot the cover page.
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The whole system would seem to lose it's meaning pretty fast if it would take a relatively short amount of time to complete every job.
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Sigh, you missed the point as well.
720 hours of play is more than enough time to get to level 50. 240 hours for 2 hours of bonus seems a bit off too.
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Why compare the offline-time required to get a badge to the online-time spent getting to 50?
I could see why someone might be interested in comparing it to the off-line time (time since creation - online-time) an average character spends before getting to 50, but why would a comparison to online-time be interesting?
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From a different point of view, this is added purely as added flavor for a character. It's not added purely as badge material for those who must have them all, and now. Taking a month to earn a free benefit we've never had access to before doesn't seem outrageous.
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Then they shouldn't have tied it to visible badges.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Looks like a good system. 1 year for all the badges seems like a pretty straightforward design. Shouldn't be too hard to do, particularly if you have a lot of alts. Two thoughts:
- What's the unit these are tracked in, or, more specifically, what "counts"? If I log off for an hour do I get 1/720th of a badge or do I have to be logged out for a full day?
- Fashion Designer seems a little wrong the villain side simply because of the flavor of their Tailor. Plastic Surgeon or ID Maker seems a little more fitting.
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Looks like a good system. 1 year for all the badges seems like a pretty straightforward design. Shouldn't be too hard to do, particularly if you have a lot of alts. Two thoughts:
- What's the unit these are tracked in, or, more specifically, what "counts"? If I log off for an hour do I get 1/720th of a badge or do I have to be logged out for a full day?
- Fashion Designer seems a little wrong the villain side simply because of the flavor of their Tailor. Plastic Surgeon or ID Maker seems a little more fitting.
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of course its not hard but im being penalized for playing the toons i want these badges on
Second Impression:
I only have a mild case of altitis but there are toons that I let sit for quite awhile (for various reasons).
This system, in current form, allows me to flesh out my sitters while I focus on my more active toons... gives me a glimmer of hope when I go back to a toon that's at one of the less exciting level ranges.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Looks like a good system. 1 year for all the badges seems like a pretty straightforward design. Shouldn't be too hard to do, particularly if you have a lot of alts. Two thoughts:
- What's the unit these are tracked in, or, more specifically, what "counts"? If I log off for an hour do I get 1/720th of a badge or do I have to be logged out for a full day?
- Fashion Designer seems a little wrong the villain side simply because of the flavor of their Tailor. Plastic Surgeon or ID Maker seems a little more fitting.
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of course its not hard but im being penalized for playing the toons i want these badges on
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No, you're not penalized at all. This is purely optional. So if you insist on playing a single character 24-7, then you won't earn progress on anything.
Of course I think most people have more than one character, and many work, sleep, and eat, so they'll earn these automatically by just going along as normal.
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Double XP for 'being on patrol'.....
I'm probably the only one who doesn't care for double XP. I'm glad that with Ouroborus we can work on the missions that the characters may end up missing out of when Double XP events happen.
But this will make things more chronic for those who want revisit characters they haven't played in a while.
If there are future Double XP weekends, does that mean those who are 'On Patrol' will earn quadruple the amount of XP?
I like being able to max out the bar for contacts, but with all of this extra XP I'd be lucky to be able to get to be able to call in for missions in CoH before having to move on to the next contact.
But I'm just going to be in the minority (probably the only one), so don't mind me
Other than that, Day Jobs is shaping up to be looking good.
I esp. love the costume pieces that are currently showing up in the costume creator. Many kudos to Jay and the gang 
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consider the possibility that you actually aren't supposed to have every badge in the game on one character.
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That comment is so outdated, and has already been proven to be a false comment by quite a few people.
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Beef, I have nothing but mad respect for what you have done for all us badgers out there, but if I start a character today, then that character will NEVER have ALL the badges. Period. So why is that an "outdated" thing to say. Unless your saying that the Dev's never intended to make it that way. If thats the case then please disregard this.
Le Blanc 50 Dark/Dark Scrap
High Huntress 50 Archery/NRG Blast
And a goatload of others. On a goatload of servers.
Official Rickroller of Hero Con 1
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The whole system would seem to lose it's meaning pretty fast if it would take a relatively short amount of time to complete every job.
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Sigh, you missed the point as well.
720 hours of play is more than enough time to get to level 50. 240 hours for 2 hours of bonus seems a bit off too.
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Don't assume I missed the point just because I disagree with it.
Gothika (Grav/Kin) Marionette (Ill/Rad) Terra Firma (Earth/Storm) Alana Dale (Arch/Nrg)
Iceblink (Ice/Dark) Fantasia (Mind/Fire) Shadow Minx (Claws/Nin)
--Virtue
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Why didn't you cap it at a max 8 hours of off-line time per 24 hours or real time? This would allow people to play their characters, yet get the awards at the same time as everyone else.
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Why not cap being on patrol at another 8 hours per diem? This combined with the day jobs capped lets players play a total of 8 hours without interfering with the reward.
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The system essentially
a) encourages people to play alts
b) give more "casual" players (players who don't spend as much time in-game) a bit of an edge compared to more dedicated players. (edit: given that they divide their time among a similar number of characters, and that number is not sufficiently high to allow the player with more in-game time to play in a permanently "buffed" state)
Your proposed limits would essentially nullify both of those things, which if any of those things were intended (which seems very possible given how the system is designed) would be contrary to the design of the system.
Simply put, it doesn't seem like the system is intended to give every character the awards at the same rate regardless of how much they are played.
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a) We already have more than enough encouragement to play alts.
b) Casual and dedicated players should be equal in this respect, and neither one given an advantage.
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Why the fudge 30 days? Given that an in game day is 30 minutes, that means if you have to spend 720 hours off-line your character has "worked" 1,440 hours to get a single badge. I'm a fan of "nice round numbers", but yikes.
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I don't see how that's relevant. 30 days was likely chosen because it was deemed to be an appropriate real-time "investment" for the rewards in question (or at least a good starting point). It can be debated if 30 days really is appropriate, but I strongly doubt that the number of "in-game days" was ever considered, nor do I feel that it should be.
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Why compare the offline-time required to get a badge to the online-time spent getting to 50?
I could see why someone might be interested in comparing it to the off-line time (time since creation - online-time) an average character spends before getting to 50, but why would a comparison to online-time be interesting?
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Tell that to nearly anyone on Virtue. The Role-Play factor is something that might need to be addressed as this is essentially a Role-Play award.
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Double XP does a level 50 how much good?
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If it doesn't do any good, would that be a problem?
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A reward that isn't a reward is a problem. A big one.
Say if I told you that someone told you that they'd give you 1 marble a day. But you can only hold 10 marbles, and you are not allowed to get rid of any marbles. Any more marbles are not given to you, instead they disappear.
At that point you'd be saying why give me marbles as a reward, because I can't use it.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Double XP for 'being on patrol'.....
I'm probably the only one who doesn't care for double XP. I'm glad that with Ouroborus we can work on the missions that the characters may end up missing out of when Double XP events happen.
But this will make things more chronic for those who want revisit characters they haven't played in a while.
If there are future Double XP weekends, does that mean those who are 'On Patrol' will earn quadruple the amount of XP?
I like being able to max out the bar for contacts, but with all of this extra XP I'd be lucky to be able to get to be able to call in for missions in CoH before having to move on to the next contact.
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Good point. People will be more likely to miss content they may want to run through (something they in some cases can remedy through Oroborous, but that's not always ideal).
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Double XP for 'being on patrol'.....
I'm probably the only one who doesn't care for double XP. I'm glad that with Ouroborus we can work on the missions that the characters may end up missing out of when Double XP events happen.
But this will make things more chronic for those who want revisit characters they haven't played in a while.
If there are future Double XP weekends, does that mean those who are 'On Patrol' will earn quadruple the amount of XP?
I like being able to max out the bar for contacts, but with all of this extra XP I'd be lucky to be able to get to be able to call in for missions in CoH before having to move on to the next contact.
But I'm just going to be in the minority (probably the only one), so don't mind me
Other than that, Day Jobs is shaping up to be looking good.
I esp. love the costume pieces that are currently showing up in the costume creator. Many kudos to Jay and the gang
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I'm thinking the Arachnos Agent/Law Enforcer badge with a maxed out Patrol Bar on a full team doing missions at Tier 2/Tier 4 difficulty.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
I like it. So much of this game's longevity is built on having multiple characters. Yet there are a bunch of built-in annoyances for people with Alts (30 second wait when switching, can't invite yourself to a SG, no easy way to pass recipes, etc).
Finally we have here a feature that rewards people for having alts. I can play one while earning badges and bonuses on the other 30. I like it!