Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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Issue 13 may be making things easier for the casual player, but for those of us who have been around for years (many since the launch and even the beta before it), it's just straining tensions. While it's not all bad, everyone who spends a significant amount of time focusing on a single aspect of the game is suffering in one way or another.

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There are people from several sub-communities that are disgruntled with various aspects of i13, but I think you're exaggerating a tad.

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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If Day Jobs are shown in a separate window, do not count towards the badge totals, and are not called badges, do you feel they could be displayed in a separate tab in your info window?

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There will never be a complete set, only complete to a certain point - and even then not everyone has the ability to have all of the badges.

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Demonstrably false, I'm afraid.

Two words:

Beef

Cake

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Two words:

Beef

Cake


He has Passport? And Bug Hunter?

On the same character?

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

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But really, are you arguing because you LIKE the idea of 30 days, or simply because you DON'T like the attitude of the other badge collectors?

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Here's why I like the idea of 30 days. Assuming most players don't play more than 8 hours a day on average, they will acquire 8 - 12 jobs per year. After 1 year to 1 year and 4 months, players will have every job that we know about so far. And that includes the accolades, which give an additional 5 powers.

Now, if you halve that to 15 days, then it becomes only 6 - 8 months. While that might still seem long to many players who can get to 50 in a month, it isn't that long for this system's intended audience, players who can take years to get to 50, either because they are casual players or have many alts. Plus, the devs might hope that people continue to collect Day Jobs after hitting 50.

If the time is too short, then either the Day Job system is trivialized because every character eventually gets all the skills or the devs add so many skills to the system in order to keep up with players that it becomes a balancing issue, and suddenly people feel forced to get Day Jobs just to feel at a normal power level.

8 - 12 skills a year seems like plenty of skills to me, and 16 - 24 seems like too much. I'd prefer Day Jobs to be special perks one gets every once and a while. They are rewards that are between in-game rewards, which come in abundance and with great frequency, and Veteran rewards, which come every 3 months and offer a small benefit, if any.

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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I'm not sure how easy this would be, but if they could do it, then it sounds like a solution we can agree on! Well, other than that I would like my skills to show up somewhere in the info window, but it wouldn't need to be in the badge tab.

In fact, they might as well move Veteran rewards too since those are technically not rewards specific to a character. Maybe have Super Group badges, Skill badges, and Heroism/Villainy badges. Skill badges would include Day Job badges, but also Veteran since Veteran rewards can represent an abstract sense of "experience" within your character. Heroism/Villainy badges would be the rest of the badges (except super group ones), and would represent acts that your character has done as a hero or villain (i.e., by you playing the game).

In this way, the unbounded nature of both Veteran and Day Job badges could be separated from the Heroism/Villainy badges that completists want to collect.

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Two words:

Beef

Cake


He has Passport? And Bug Hunter?

On the same character?

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Actually.....

(one time I looked at beef's badges while he was standing in Wentworths. It nearly crashed my system. true story. >&gt

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I'm not sure what is behind the resistance is to lowering the time needed

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I don't think the DEVs intend every/any character to have all the Day Job badges.
I think they will end up getting nerfed of players start trying to get all the Day Job badges on each character.

I'm pretty sure it is intended for extra flavor and not a mini-maxing thing.

I'm starting to think that they should limit any character to only having 4 or 5 Day Job badges. That would limit the number of Accolades a character could earn, and maybe that would stop this discussion about needing reduced time for each badge because each character MUST learn all the Day Job badges as QUICKLY as possible and because the set time is ALREADY (pre-release) TOO LONG to wait!
Yikes!

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I'm not sure what is behind the resistance is to lowering the time needed

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I don't think the DEVs intend every/any character to have all the Day Job badges.
I think they will end up getting nerfed of players start trying to get all the Day Job badges on each character.

I'm pretty sure it is intended for extra flavor and not a mini-maxing thing.

I'm starting to think that they should limit any character to only having 4 or 5 Day Job badges. That would limit the number of Accolades a character could earn, and maybe that would stop this discussion about needing reduced time for each badge because each character MUST learn all the Day Job badges as QUICKLY as possible and because the set time is ALREADY (pre-release) TOO LONG to wait!
Yikes!

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The accolade powers require charges. There aren't any balance issues with having all the badges, because the powers can only be charged every 192 hours of offline time anyway.

The only people clamoring for people not to be able to get more than a few are, well, you and Venture, and at least he's just trolling.

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The only people clamoring for people not to be able to get more than a few are, well, you and Venture, and at least he's just trolling.


a) I'm not trolling.

b) I'm hardly "clamoring", I just said that's the way I would have done it. What I have stood by is that it is not a design goal of the badge system for any one character to be able to have every badge in the game, meaning that the complaints about getting all the day job badges on one character are simply not to the point.

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

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b) I'm hardly "clamoring", I just said that's the way I would have done it. What I have stood by is that it is not a design goal of the badge system for any one character to be able to have every badge in the game, meaning that the complaints about getting all the day job badges on one character are simply not to the point.

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

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Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

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In this situation I think that the usage was appropriate. The negations do not cancel out.

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

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In this situation I think that the usage was appropriate. The negations do not cancel out.

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As I said, trolling.

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

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In this situation I think that the usage was appropriate. The negations do not cancel out.

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Shouldn't the question have read: Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs intended for people to have multiple day job badges?

I agree that double negatives are bad.

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What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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If Day Jobs are shown in a separate window, do not count towards the badge totals, and are not called badges, do you feel they could be displayed in a separate tab in your info window?

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No, I agree with Positron before they put in the Veteran Reward badges: "There are too many tabs in the badge window already."

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Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

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In this situation I think that the usage was appropriate. The negations do not cancel out.

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Shouldn't the question have read: Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs intended for people to have multiple day job badges?

I agree that double negatives are bad.

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That would be a possible question, but it is not the same question.

Consider this example:

A: Roses are flowers.
B: A said that roses are not red.
A: I did not say that roses are not red.

A's second statement is not the same as "I said that roses are red".

Multiple negatives in one sentence do not always cancel out.


In this case, there are three possibilities:
1) The devs intended for people to have multiple day job badges
2) The devs did not intend for people to have multiple day job badges
3) The devs had no specific intent with regards to how many day job badges you should have


Your question asks if 1 is true. The original question asks if 1 or 3 is true.

You could question if option 3 is meaningful or not, but that does not make the question invalid.

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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If Day Jobs are shown in a separate window, do not count towards the badge totals, and are not called badges, do you feel they could be displayed in a separate tab in your info window?

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No, I agree with Positron before they put in the Veteran Reward badges: "There are too many tabs in the badge window already."

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As you say, he appears to be talking about tabs in the badge window.
I am asking about tabs in the info window.

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Sorry, I missed that. It could go in the Bio tab...

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Sorry, I missed that. It could go in the Bio tab...

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Or a new tab entirely... "Secret Identity" (or just "Identity" for short), perhaps?

That'd also give them somewhere to put the eventual in-game secret identity stuff they'd like to add way down the road... (Provided they ever figure out how to make it work the way they want, of course.)

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Sorry, I missed that. It could go in the Bio tab...

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Or a new tab entirely... "Secret Identity" (or just "Identity" for short), perhaps?

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This idea's been tossed around before: Expanding the "Info" window for players to include more peripheral info on their character beyond powers and bio. I think the "identity" tab (or profile, or working out the Bio tab more, etc) is a good avenue of pursuit for the Day Jobs data.

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I say we get one extra costume slot for our alter-ego.
Our info will change accordingly to reflect our job with no reference to our super powered being

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Ok so it is a confirmed thing that you can still play on another character and still gain the rewards on another character? I have been talking about it to a few of my fellows and on of my boys (you know who you are) insists that you have to be fully logged out of the system entirely.

Because now, at this point in time I feel as though I am just an abhorrent bundle of fluffy confusion that seem to keep blowing with the wind.

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Ok so it is a confirmed thing that you can still play on another character and still gain the rewards on another character?

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I have been talking about it to a few of my fellows and on of my boys (you know who you are) insists that you have to be fully logged out of the system entirely.

[/ QUOTE ]Nope.

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@Morac | Twitter
Trust the computer. The computer knows all.

oh great, thanks so much Morac =)

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