Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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However, the Heal/Damage/Whatever badges are earned faster if you play normally *more often*, while the rate at which you earn Day Job badges actually slows down if you play more.

(this isn't how those badges are treated by badge collectors though, and thus not the effect it'll really have on them)

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Apparently the gladiator loophole seems to be plugged:
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* A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.

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Three overlapping badges. The tier 1 badge gets hidden when you earn the tier 2. The tier 2 gets hidden when you get the tier 3. Just like the respec badges.

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So really you are after badge counts then, not the badges themselves. Collecting extra badges only matters if it affects your badge count. If that's the case, then why is not including Day Job badges in the badge count good enough?

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Still using the system... And while badge counts are a part of it, you still have a visible badge in the window. If it is visible and can be used to set a title it still is a badge.

Just face it, you simply cannot say "only count some of the collectible things" and expect that collectors would agreed with it. It is fine that you don't understand it. You don't need to. However the developers DO need to understand that a segment of the player base is upset at this implementation.

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One is possible the other is not. Each story arc, task force, and trial is a specific thing you can gauge, thanks to the badge system and souvenirs. The other missions have no such mechanism to tell when they are "done". Therefore, straw man, unless you want to remove the badges from the day jobs entirely so you have no record of what you've done.

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So everything that is counted in the game must be completely collectible?

And for some people, getting all the badges is equally as impossible as doing all the missions. They just don't have the time to do either one. So should the devs reduce the number of badges and missions just because they want to be able to collect them all? Or does it just matter that there is enough time for you specifically to get them all?

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Actually, missions don't need to be adjusted, you can flashback to all the collectible ones.

I've already said multiple times that they should:
* Have 1 veteran badge that lets select all the titles for your characters. Similar to what I've proposed to with day jobs, people could get a special veterans award title at the trainer.
* Do something about the anniversary badges, and the 5th column gladiator.

Maybe the best thing to do with the day jobs, veteran rewards, anniversary badges, and other account badges (VIP/Destined One, Pocket D VIP) is to:
* Make a new "Special awards" window.
* Move all these badges OUT of the badge system / database and into the new window/system.
* Remove them from the badge count.

At that point they are no longer a part of the badge system.

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Maybe the best thing to do with the day jobs, veteran rewards, anniversary badges, and other account badges (VIP/Destined One, Pocket D VIP) is to:
* Make a new "Special awards" window.
* Move all these badges OUT of the badge system / database and into the new window/system.
* Remove them from the badge count.

At that point they are no longer a part of the badge system.

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The thing is, most of us badgers are okay with the idea of removing things that not everyone can obtain from the official badge total. These include such badges as the Anniversary badges, and the Veteran Rewards due to the way they're implemented (they keep new players from becoming badgers, because they look at them and say, "Aw man, I'll never get those, so why bother even starting?"). We don't want to lose them, but we're okay with them not counting towards the total (the way SG badges don't count, but still show up on your badge window).

As long as the badgers can stand to do it, they'll keep going after anything that's called a "badge" in the game. And when they can't stand it anymore, they'll probably quit.

The new Day Jobs badges are making dedicated badgers groan and say, "Aw man, I'll never get all of those AND the other new badges they offer in the game (not to mention whatever other badges I'm currently missing). I don't even want to try." The thing is, for those with a collector mindset, badges are a huge draw for the game. If you're not collecting, then you're not feeding that need. And if you're not feeding that need for a long enough period of time, you start to question why you're still subscribing.

Issue 13 seems to be really bothering a lot of hardcore players for different reasons:
*The badgers are bothered by Day Jobs
*The PVPers are bothered by the PVP changes
*Inf and Market Farmers are going to be bothered by Merits
*Levelling Pacts give another tool to use for power levellers, which creates more "n00bs" who have no idea how to use their characters--which affects the PVE players (regardless of how they feel about badges, PVP, farming, or PLing).
*Base Builders are losing their Base Salvage, and are being left in the dark as to whether or not they will be compensated for the upcoming price decrease on all base items. This will also raise the price of Invention Salvage, since all base items will now use it for construction. (Thanks to Snow Globe for reminding me about this one.)

The only things I haven't heard any legitimate complaints about were the new powersets (plenty of "why didn't you make X powerset instead?" but nothing substantial) and the Dual-Builds, which people run from "Meh" to mildly excited over (haven't heard a single person say, "You're ruining my character by giving the option for dual builds!" other than people complaining about the cost of min/maxing another build).

Issue 13 may be making things easier for the casual player, but for those of us who have been around for years (many since the launch and even the beta before it), it's just straining tensions. While it's not all bad, everyone who spends a significant amount of time focusing on a single aspect of the game is suffering in one way or another.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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* A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.

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The question is if a heal that doesn't heal you, imposes the penalty. I can see some unfortunate griefing with an "ally" healing you continuously to prevent you from healing any further if it applies.

But yeah, Arena = PVP mode = No more arena healing

Unless the requirements are lowered, Empath will become a villain only badge. (Hmm, with pain domination for MM's, I guess that means that now 3 different corruptors and a MM can now grind out Empath in a month.)

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Still using the system... And while badge counts are a part of it, you still have a visible badge in the window. If it is visible and can be used to set a title it still is a badge.

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How is being in a separate window that much different than a separate tab? And why should badges be the only thing allowed to set a title?

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Just face it, you simply cannot say "only count some of the collectible things" and expect that collectors would agreed with it. It is fine that you don't understand it. You don't need to. However the developers DO need to understand that a segment of the player base is upset at this implementation.

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Some collectors prefer the process of collecting rather than the goal. In fact, I would argue that most collectors are like that. Just because those people don't fit into your limited definition of a "collector" does not mean they aren't collectors.

I want to collect Day Job badges, but I don't ever want to be done. I always want one more Day Job badge available for me to get. And I want a wide selection of Day Jobs to choose from. I'm hoping that the devs continue to add a lot more Day Jobs to the system.

While Day Jobs might not satify collectors like you that like to collect from bounded collections, they do satisfy collectors like me that like to collect from unbounded collections. And that's fine; not everything in the game needs to be for everybody.

Exploration badges, History badges, Accomplishment badges, and Achievement badges are all bounded collections that are there for collectors like you, and Day Job badges are there for collectors like me.

Why should your style of collecting have a monopoly on the game?

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The thing is, most of us badgers are okay with the idea of removing things that not everyone can obtain from the official badge total.

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I don't go by badge total, I go by shiny reward. I don't have the 1-8 times the victor badge either, and don't plan on getting it even though it's apparent they'll never bother to go back to fix that bug.


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As long as the badgers can stand to do it, they'll keep going after anything that's called a "badge" in the game. And when they can't stand it anymore, they'll probably quit.

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I'm at badge burnout right now for pillboxes and inf. I'll probably never get those badges on either of my badgers. Particularly, for pillboxes.

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Issue 13 seems to be really bothering a lot of hardcore players for different reasons:
*The badgers are bothered by Day Jobs


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I'm not bothered by the concept of them, unlike some snarky individuals. I'm not even bothered by not being able to grind out a bunch in a single weekend. I just disagree on the time investment needed.

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*The PVPers are bothered by the PVP changes

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The goal of the changes I think are good, but it's going to be completely different from what is there currently. PVP will pretty much be completely changed.

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*Inf and Market Farmers are going to be bothered by Merits

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If implemented poorly, Merits will cause the markets to sky rocket, particularly good-but-not-great pool C recipes. If implemented well, Merits will help introduce even more market volatility which is what market farmers thrive on anyway.

Also, demand for invention salvage is going to rocket through the roof with the base salvage change, not too mention dual builds having a completely separate set of enhancements driving demand up even further.

I don't think the market hounds will do badly.

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*Levelling Pacts give another tool to use for power levellers, which creates more "n00bs" who have no idea how to use their characters--which affects the PVE players (regardless of how they feel about badges, PVP, farming, or PLing).

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I don't think it will have any additional effect. Yay, instead of spending time to level up 2 separate characters, I can now spend twice the time leveling up two characters! It's the same amount of time. The people PL'ing before, will PL now. The people that didn't PL before, won't PL now. There are some additional, interesting effects that may pan out, but it's not going to be a big deal.

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The only things I haven't heard any legitimate complaints about were ... Dual-Builds, which people run from "Meh" to mildly excited over (haven't heard a single person say, "You're ruining my character by giving the option for dual builds!" other than people complaining about the cost of min/maxing another build).

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Dual builds *will* have an effect on the market, whether you plan on using it or not. Otherwise, it's pure win.

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While Day Jobs might not satify collectors like you that like to collect from bounded collections, they do satisfy collectors like me that like to collect from unbounded collections. And that's fine; not everything in the game needs to be for everybody.

Exploration badges, History badges, Accomplishment badges, and Achievement badges are all bounded collections that are there for collectors like you, and Day Job badges are there for collectors like me.

Why should your style of collecting have a monopoly on the game?

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See, that's a reasonable point of view.

Why couldn't someone post something like that earlier, instead of things like "I don't think you should even be able to get everything, and I'm happy that you won't" which at best is mildly combative.

At this point, everyone should probably agree to disagree unless something new to talk about comes up.

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And, yes, there are people that "can't wait for the badges", and ones that have to have them "now".


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Please point out where I said I wanted these badges "now". I will be waiting.

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You said -

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. I personally think 14 or 15 days would be fine.

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I said...

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....there are people that "can't wait for the badges", ....


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The DEVs have set the time as 30 days. You are saying that you can't wait 30 days and that it should be shorter period of time because it is, apparently, too long.

I've clarified my "now" previous as well. As far as I'm concerned, wanting it before the time that the DEVs have it set for is wanting it "now".

A little child can want a cookie "now", but the child's mom still will have to go to the cookie jar to get it. If she goes to get it when the child says "now", she's getting it for the child before she intended to give it to the child. To the child, it is "now".

This is not meant to be derogatory toward you. I'm saying it this way so that my point is clear. If you take it offensively, that's on you - not me.

"Gotta catch them all!"

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How many Day Jobs can a hero have?
What is this turning into? City of Temp Services?


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The badges represent things you have done, not *what you are doing*

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I'll rephrase then ::
How many Day Jobs can a hero have had???
What is this turning into? City of Temp Services?

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And, yes, there are people that "can't wait for the badges", and ones that have to have them "now".


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Please point out where I said I wanted these badges "now". I will be waiting.

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You said -

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. I personally think 14 or 15 days would be fine.

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I said...

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....there are people that "can't wait for the badges", ....


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The DEVs have set the time as 30 days. You are saying that you can't wait 30 days and that it should be shorter period of time because it is, apparently, too long.

I've clarified my "now" previous as well. As far as I'm concerned, wanting it before the time that the DEVs have it set for is wanting it "now".

A little child can want a cookie "now", but the child's mom still will have to go to the cookie jar to get it. If she goes to get it when the child says "now", she's getting it for the child before she intended to give it to the child. To the child, it is "now".

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14-15 days is still quite a bit of time to invest, and is hardly "now."

CaptA, myself, and most of the other badgers out there are simply saying that 30 days is just too long. If you don't agree, then fine, you don't agree.

But really, are you arguing because you LIKE the idea of 30 days, or simply because you DON'T like the attitude of the other badge collectors? If it's the former, then that's fine; but if it's the latter, then you really need to stop posting here because it's just causing drama, and if you're not being constructive then you're wasting everyone's time (including yours).

Regardless, nobody is saying "Noooooow!" so stop phrasing it as such. "Now" and "half the time" are not the same thing, no matter how you qualify them in your own head. (It's not wrong to have different definitions, but it makes arguments like the one in this thread very messy.)

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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Chad made some of the points I would have responded with, so I will just say I agree with him. In addition, I just wanted to say something about the length of time in question.

As it is currently, there are 12 badges available with the Day Jobs feature, with the likely addition of more since they said that not all are represented here. At best someone could get all 12 of those in a year of time. One year = 12 badges. That's a lengthy bit of time. Lowering the time per badge to 15 days will still cost someone 6 months to get them all. Six months is long but much better than a year. In contrast, I recently went about getting the flashback badges on my badge character (I don't like exemping, so it was an effort) and did them all in just a few weeks. That was about 80 badges or so. If a badge collector wants to really increase his badge collection is a short period, it's a good way to do it. 2 weeks for ~80 badges vs. 1 year for 12.

I'm not sure what is behind the resistance is to lowering the time needed, especially since they will probably be adding on to the list. I'm willing to put the time and effort into getting these things, but I think the devs can lower the time needed without breaking the game.

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"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21

Guide to Base Teleporters

I would only be in favor of shortening the badge earning time if the time to recharge the temp power associated with it was doubled or tripled. Getting the badge means getting the goodies linked to it, and that shouldn't be too easy.

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"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

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However, the Heal/Damage/Whatever badges are earned faster if you play normally *more often*, while the rate at which you earn Day Job badges actually slows down if you play more.

(this isn't how those badges are treated by badge collectors though, and thus not the effect it'll really have on them)

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Apparently the gladiator loophole seems to be plugged:
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* A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.

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Quite possibly, depending on how Gladiators are affected. Castle didn't specifically state how Pets (or Henchmen for that matter) are affected.

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If badge earning time is dependent on getting the bonus powers remove the bonus powers. Most badges don't give you a bonus anyway. If you want to still get powers than make the accolades need 3 or 4 badges instead of 2 and you have your 60 days to get a temp power.

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Protector Server
Woeful Knight (BS/Regen/Body Scrapper)
Kevin Christian (MC/FF/Primal Controller)
SilverCybernaut (Eng/Dev/Munitions Blaster)
Apixie OhNo (Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker)
Y'ru Glowen (Rad/Rad/Psy Defender)

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Why the fudge 30 days? Given that an in game day is 30 minutes, that means if you have to spend 720 hours off-line your character has "worked" 1,440 days to get a single badge.

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1440 days is 4 years, like a college diploma. And the badge I consider to be my career certification credentials. And the extra bonuses, after getting the badge is like moving from paid intern to employee with benefits. LOL

On a different note:
I want to log out in someplace like the Council base and get rewarded with an extra stealth ability, earning my way to a "Man on the inside" badge.
OR....
Logout in a PVP zone hero / villain base and get a tactical bonus (offensive or defensive), earning my way to a "Tactical Mercenary" or "Military Consultant" badge. (Fun for heavy PVPers)
OR....
Logout near a Base Portal and get a Prestige bonus, earning my way to some sort of 'Keeper of the Sanctuary"' badge (help on the name).

And what about Cimerora or Ouroboros, maybe a "Quantum Diplomat" badge with with a teleport temp power. meh

I will probably end up with a lot of (good/bad) ideas about job description.

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Issue 13 seems to be really bothering a lot of hardcore players for different reasons:
*The badgers are bothered by Day Jobs
*The PVPers are bothered by the PVP changes
*Inf and Market Farmers are going to be bothered by Merits
*Levelling Pacts give another tool to use for power levellers, which creates more "n00bs" who have no idea how to use their characters--which affects the PVE players (regardless of how they feel about badges, PVP, farming, or PLing).

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You forgot base builders being ticked off for the (a) removal of base salvage and (b) having to sell off everything and repurchase to get the prestige difference.

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Issue 13 may be making things easier for the casual player, but for those of us who have been around for years (many since the launch and even the beta before it), it's just straining tensions. While it's not all bad, everyone who spends a significant amount of time focusing on a single aspect of the game is suffering in one way or another.

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Badges and bases for me...

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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You forgot base builders being ticked off for the (a) removal of base salvage and (b) having to sell off everything and repurchase to get the prestige difference.

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Man, every time I post a list, I forget something. Thanks, I'll go back and edit that in. (We don't necessarily know about part B yet, and I still want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt on that one...)

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Ok, thinking about it, make the day jobs exactly like the Super Group badges (separate window via a button in the badge window), not counting towards the badge totals, not displayed in your info window, etc with one exception: you could use it as a selectable title.

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This is, as forumites like to say, "full of win."

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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I am still a noob when it comes to these kinds of discussions, but here goes.
Vets are pissed that stuff is just handed to noobs, when they have worked their digital rear-ends off earning everything they have. I whole heartedly agree.

My suggestions would be to make the Day Job part of your initial build. Or like travel powers or APPs, something you CHOOSE at say... level 10.
Or maybe even a vet reward itself.
You could create an in game "Recruiter" contact (or similar) that would help you choose. Maybe give you a mission or two (like the tailors), sort of like applying for the job .
(An Unemployment Office would be epic hilarity. 30 x level 50 heroes in line waiting for the job counselor. LMAO)
You would earn said bonuses whether you are in the game or not. Nobody is penalized for playing or not playing. In fact I propose a cap on what you can earn while not playing.

Also if we are going to have an actual alter-ego, we should be able to have aliases to match.

Comments?

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The idea is sound, N.Evil, and I think that most of us that are left in this thread would prefer that solution. New things to do and play with are always welcome in this game.

But, unfortunately, they've already decided on the implementation. They want to create a system of offline rewards to compete with those being offered by other games (which is still an all-around monumentally bad idea in my opinion... rewards for NOT playing!?! ), and to help keep the casual players who might be on the fence about quitting to fall back in with the subscribers.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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unfortunately, they've already decided on the implementation.

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So then they nerf it in I14. lol

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Okay, that got me laughing. Good job.

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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093

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If badge earning time is dependent on getting the bonus powers remove the bonus powers. Most badges don't give you a bonus anyway. If you want to still get powers than make the accolades need 3 or 4 badges instead of 2 and you have your 60 days to get a temp power.

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The bonus powers are the entire point of the system. Without them, the system would just be lame and inane.

The badges are a side effect of the system, with an additional side effect of making the powers recharge faster.

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Why the fudge 30 days? Given that an in game day is 30 minutes, that means if you have to spend 720 hours off-line your character has "worked" 1,440 days to get a single badge.

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1440 days is 4 years, like a college diploma. And the badge I consider to be my career certification credentials.


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College degrees are only career certification credentials for your first few jobs.

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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit