Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature

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So you are saying that it is proper for the developers to pretty much punish players for wanting to play their badge characters? Because that is what it comes down to.

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This is such a key point. NO ONE IS BEING PUNISHED, BUT SOME PEOPLE HAVE MANUFACTURED THIS IDEA IN THEIR HEADS.

Play whatever character you want to play, you will still make progress toward the new badges. Sorry that progress will not be as fast as you want it to be. And that is the sad fact, its not as fast as you want it to be. You can still get them and get them all, just not in a couple of hours or days or weeks or even months, but many months to get them all. That is the prize of a complete collection, having the determination to do what is necessary to get the whole collection.

But then again, the devs adding new badges into the game "to pretty much punish players for wanting to play their badge characters" is so much easier to wrap ones head around. Everyone is a victim.

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You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

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Comic book collectors collect comic books, but only some of them. Stamp collectors collect stamps, but only some of them. Coin collectors collect coins, but only some of them. In fact, I would guess that most collectors don't have everything of what they collect. Yet somehow they all seem to continue to enjoy collecting even knowing that their collections might never be complete.

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They don't want all players to have every single job. They want players to choose what they want to focus on just like they are required to choose which AT and power sets they want to play with.

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And you have a quote for this? Because I don't see it. It could be inferred from the really high requirements, but there is absolutely *nothing* to prevent it, and it would be ridiculously easy to do so.

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If it's so easy to do, then you shouldn't have a problem with getting every single job using the system as it currently is.

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This is the merit I see to the 8 hour counts per 24 hour period idea someone else had. It makes the logged out times not easily farmable, while allowing for the rewards to pop every 10 days without forcing people that want the rewards to change their playstyle.

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That "someone else" would be me as well... As far as I know I'm the only one in this thread that mentioned it. A lot of people are set against it though.

Edit:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...umber=12177871

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You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

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Well, there's already a history of that. That's what those of us who can't do the ski slopes were told. "Physical or other problems that prevent you from twitch gaming? Tough noogies."

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By players, not explicitly by the developers.

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If I had to guess, "I won't be able to get ALL the badges in under 8 months," is not going to persuade them to change the time required, but I could be wrong.

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*DING* we have a winner. The idea that they should shorten the time to achieve a badge for the sole purpose of shortening it so it'd fit within a month, just won't work. They haven't budged on the 24 hour timer that causes reward creep for daily runs (granted, it only causes creep for people that don't have multiple characters to run with, so basically anyone that would farm is unaffected) of trials and the STF/RSF, I doubt they'd budge on 30 * 24 hours.

Personally, I wish they'd switch to assuming a day is 22 hours. This allows for the elimination of reward creep, and keeps things like the badge achievable within 30 days instead of watching it creep out to 37 instead.

(With that said, I don't run daily trials or STF/RSF's, but I do recognize the issue however small as being there.)

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If it's so easy to do, then you shouldn't have a problem with getting every single job using the system as it currently is.

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False equivalence. You are assuming "time consuming = difficulty".

Logging out, is ridiculously easy to do. Logging out in a new location when needed, is ridiculously easy to do.

What it is, is time consuming to do so.

Oh, and I notice you didn't bother answering me, so I guess you're admitting that the dev's don't have an agenda to insure that no one has all the day-job badges and instead that's *your personal preference*.

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Sorry, but using a openly stated broken badge to compare to is not going to work here.

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[color= yellow]Yellow[/color] part re-added by me. [color= orange]Orange[/color] part highlighted.

There's a reason I added that bolded part at the end.

But you stated that "No other badge in the system does this". To show that as being false one only needs to show one example of the opposite, and there is no need for me, you, Positron, or my neighbor's cat to particularly *like* the other example. It just happens to be the easiest to show the extreme case of the opposite.

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Ok, technically you are right. I should have said that "No other badges in the game are designed to be like this." Even Empath was designed to be done actively healing others. That people have perverted that intention doesn't make what I said false however.

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But Empath isn't the only example (just the most extreme one). How about Damage badges? Mez badges?

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As designed, those badges are supposed to take a long time. I would say excessively so, and have. However they were not designed to be done while away from the game.

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This is disingenuous and I am tired of people saying it like it is fact. Nobody is asking for these badges "now". People are asking for them SOONER than one year. If you can't understand or don't care that badgers don't want to wait that long, then your opinion on the length of time doesn't really matter. I've seen nobody in this thread (to my recollection) suggest anything less than 10 days of offline time per badge. I personally think 14 or 15 days would be fine. Neither me nor anyone else is suggesting "now".

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Well, you can be tired all day long.
My opinion is worth as much as yours or anyone else's. I guess you need to learn that.

And, yes, there are people that "can't wait for the badges", and ones that have to have them "now".

You fall into the category of wanting go get the badge sooner than the DEVs are planning on allow you to get them because you don't want to have to wait. I'm assuming you want to get all of them as well - on the same character.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the DEVs intend a character to have all the day job badges.

And "now" really means as soon as possible or sooner.

I'm glad that you can't just buy another "expansion card pack" in CoH.
I'm glad that there are Vet Badges and that the day jobs will take 30 days to kick in.

I have patience. It's apparently a rare trait these days.

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You know, there is nothing wrong with the Day Jobs feature. DEVS can add as they please and ignore the constant requests of the player base. I don't think it's a big secret that CoV is a better game than CoH but CoV has a lot fewer features. It looks like i13 and i14 will not be adding anything. It's too bad.

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You know, there is nothing wrong with the Day Jobs feature. DEVS can add as they please and ignore the constant requests of the player base. I don't think it's a big secret that CoV is a better game than CoH but CoV has a lot fewer features. It looks like i13 and i14 will not be adding anything. It's too bad.

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I13 will be adding something that comes up every 2 weeks, and the doubled XP will be coming up even more often than that.

Not too mention new powersets, dual builds, merits, and some other quality of life features that probably haven't been announced yet.

The 2 week lag time of getting benefits from day jobs just kind of takes some sparkle from it though.

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I have patience. It's apparently a rare trait these days.


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I farmed Empath. Patience what now?

(of course, I'd never *ever* farm Empath twice. I do have a Hero and a Villain badger, but only one of them will have that badge.)


Side note, months ago I had a conversation with a prominent badger about day jobs joking about how they could make it as awful as possible (or, screw the pooch as my grand parents would say.) One of us jokingly said "I know, make you stay logged out for a month straight.".

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You know, there is nothing wrong with the Day Jobs feature. DEVS can add as they please and ignore the constant requests of the player base. I don't think it's a big secret that CoV is a better game than CoH but CoV has a lot fewer features. It looks like i13 and i14 will not be adding anything. It's too bad.

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I13 will be adding something that comes up every 2 weeks, and the doubled XP will be coming up even more often than that.

Not too mention new powersets, dual builds, merits, and some other quality of life features that probably haven't been announced yet.

The 2 week lag time of getting benefits from day jobs just kind of takes some sparkle from it though.

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What will they be adding every 2 weeks?

I don't think any of these adds are that big. After being told big things were coming (back before i12 was released) the new for i13 and i14 was very disappointing. The MA might deliver but I was hoping for some of the items from that survey list. Ah well. This is my only MMO and I don't know if these are for me

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Question: does the double experience from being logged out work the same was as the double XP from Double XP weekend? Does it double experience, influence and prestige?

What does it do for level 50 characters?

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One of us jokingly said "I know, make you stay logged out for a month straight.".


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Yeah, that would have been bad.

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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

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I have patience. It's apparently a rare trait these days.


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I farmed Empath. Patience what now?


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if you sat there watching for hours on end...sure you get no cookies for going to bed!

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False equivalence. You are assuming "time consuming = difficulty".

Logging out, is ridiculously easy to do. Logging out in a new location when needed, is ridiculously easy to do.

What it is, is time consuming to do so.

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You do realize that the whole game is based on being time consuming, right? Sure, there is some level of challenge to certain aspects of it, but really anybody with enough time can get a level 50. In fact, given a finite, but significantly large amount of time, a player could theoretically get level 50 characters of every single power combination possible. And it wouldn't be challenging at all, just incredibly time consuming.

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Oh, and I notice you didn't bother answering me, so I guess you're admitting that the dev's don't have an agenda to insure that no one has all the day-job badges and instead that's *your personal preference*.

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I didn't say the devs didn't want anybody to have all the day job badges. I said they didn't want everybody to have all the badges. In other words, their goal is not for all characters to go for every Day Job.

Most players need to choose between fewer level 50s and lots of lower alts. Few players have the time needed to have lots of level 50s. Nonetheless, for those that do have the time and will, the devs don't prevent them from doing so.

Similarly, the purpose of the time requirement is so that players choose between being less proficient in more areas and more proficient in less. If the devs didn't want this, they wouldn't have put in the time requirement in the first place. If they wanted everybody to get all the Day Jobs, they would have made logging out and back in at a given location give you the badges instantly. Furthermore, there would be no extra reward after 30 days. The reward you got on Day 1 would never increase.

Now, depending on the rate at which new jobs are added to the system, it might certainly be possible for some players to gain proficiency in every job. And the devs don't have any specific game rules preventing this from happening. But just because something is possible and allowed does not mean it ought to be easily or quickly obtained.

And as far as my personal preferences, I honestly wouldn't mind if the devs decided to give all my characters the bonuses for every Day Job without me having to wait any time at all. So no, I'm not against anybody getting all Day Job badges. But I also wouldn't consider that to be an offline skill system either since what's the point of having "skills" if everybody has all the skills? All that does is inflate people's abilities.

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And, yes, there are people that "can't wait for the badges", and ones that have to have them "now".


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Name them.



Oh, BTW, the Wizard of Oz called. They need their Straw Man back.

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"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter

29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform

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You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

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Well, there's already a history of that. That's what those of us who can't do the ski slopes were told. "Physical or other problems that prevent you from twitch gaming? Tough noogies."

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By players, not explicitly by the developers.

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Explicitly? No. But they did implicitly when they created a second, new set of badges based on the exact same twitch gaming for the upcoming winter event. There is no other message that can be drawn from that than, "We listened to your concerns about not being able to get those badges, and ignored them." So the devs don't really care if we can get all the badges or not.

Actually, I don't mind the thirty day earning time, and making those badges a long term goal. But I know that arguing that it isn't fair for the devs to create badges you feel you can't get has already failed to sway them, so you need to find another angle to convince them.

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"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

I agree with the opting out of xp. the reason i started all these alts was to play them through of my own volition not to have xp given to them. I enjoy doing all the story lines as i progress and this xp given to me will hurt big time especially on the villains since their xp versus story lines are so finite.

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I believe there should be spots in each zone where one can log to not earn the patrol xp. I like the option of putting it in the options menu to click on to start or stop. I think this would make those who want it happy and those who don't want the double xp happy as well.

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I believe there should be spots in each zone where one can log to not earn the patrol xp. I like the option of putting it in the options menu to click on to start or stop. I think this would make those who want it happy and those who don't want the double xp happy as well.

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There is a suggestion for putting in an XP slider. I think that would solve any issues about getting too much XP from Day Jobs or any other kind of reward. With the XP slider, people would never have to worry about outleveling content ever.

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I like this suggestion to utilize it as a temporary power (the double xp). Good suggestion! I hope the devs consider it.

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I believe there should be spots in each zone where one can log to not earn the patrol xp. I like the option of putting it in the options menu to click on to start or stop. I think this would make those who want it happy and those who don't want the double xp happy as well.

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There is a suggestion for putting in an XP slider. I think that would solve any issues about getting too much XP from Day Jobs or any other kind of reward. With the XP slider, people would never have to worry about outleveling content ever.

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This game has content?

I keed, I keed.

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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit

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You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

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Well, there's already a history of that. That's what those of us who can't do the ski slopes were told. "Physical or other problems that prevent you from twitch gaming? Tough noogies."

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By players, not explicitly by the developers.

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Explicitly? No. But they did implicitly when they created a second, new set of badges based on the exact same twitch gaming for the upcoming winter event. There is no other message that can be drawn from that than, "We listened to your concerns about not being able to get those badges, and ignored them." So the devs don't really care if we can get all the badges or not.

Actually, I don't mind the thirty day earning time, and making those badges a long term goal. But I know that arguing that it isn't fair for the devs to create badges you feel you can't get has already failed to sway them, so you need to find another angle to convince them.

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Skiing was one of my favorite things to do in this game.

"Where's Slax?"
"Skiing"
"Again?"

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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit