Kung_POW_Chicken

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Objective Feedback:
IOs from the new sets in the TF Drop Pools are almost non-existant on the market.


Subjective analysis about that:
This indicates a serious lack of TF Drop Pool supply in general. Since merits are the only source of said recipes, it seems the system is not producing enough drops that make it to the Market.
This is probably true over all Pool C recipes, not just the new sets. The new sets are simply a lot easier to notice, and do not have the possibility that market activity may be using pre-existing Pool C's instead of new drops. I expect all Pool C recipes will be harder to find on the market now.


IMHO, TFs need to return to dropping random recipes. Merits should be applied on top of TF reward drops, so that people will over time get additional recipes, such as to offset bad luck on TF drops. (perhaps awarding fewer merits than currently, it doesn't have to directly merge the 2 amounts.) This will retain the pre-I13 supply of Pool Cs, and perhaps even increase the amount of supply of that pool on the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo, this says a lot of what I wanted to say. I've been looking for the low level accurate defence debuff set proc. It's not an uber IO, just a "chance of damage" but it's 200 merits or more. Less than 10 have been sold excluding level 30s, where 5 or more have sold, so don't know how many have dropped.

Suggestion - modify the merit awards to give say a random drop + 40 merits from posi, 7 merits from Katie, 2 drops +60 from Dr Q etc.

[/ QUOTE ]


I really like this idea. Big thumbs up. It does two things, continues giving variable rate merits that allows the devs to continue to tweak rewards, and B) *forces* random drops so that the market will continue to be fed.

The bad side, is that it still continues the idea that pool C recipes have to be slown down by 300% or so.

[ QUOTE ]
[u]Objective[u]
- With the Merit system as it stands, it is no longer possible to get SO enhancements at an early level from doing the Positron Task Force.

- Many low-level recipes have outrageous costs in Merits. These recipes are not the ones that high-level players would be buying for use at high levels - so why are there recipes that cost 150+ merits for a low-level recipe?

- No Trials give enough merits for a Trial recipe roll. That is odd.

[u]Subjective[u]

- It is much easier to obtain some rare recipes such as the Miracle: +Recovery and Luck of the Gambler: 7.5% recharge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I think they might as well stop calling it the trial recipe pool due to no trial giving enough merits to reward a roll. Actually, they should introduce *more* "trial" pool like choices. E.g. The Defense Pool that drops only healing, def buff, or resistance sets. I think charging 35 would be fair for those as they are likely to be super high quality. (The mez pool, probably should be back at 25 though)


I think they need to continue to make sure that the majority of TF's give at least 20 merits so that they are worth at least a random roll, and only adjust the merits of the outliers to bring rewards up or down as appropriate. Actually, I think they should forget about precise timings and just make a value judgment as to whether it is worth a roll or not, and if it is if it is worth bonuses due to extreme length/difficulty.

To be honest, there is a world of difference between running STF/RSF with SO's and fully decked out. They *need* to take distinctions like that into account as well, instead of punishing the lower tier people due to the higher people basically slamming through content like it was nothing.

Also, this game is not WoW which consists of continually grinding content for exactly 1 character. Merits need to either be tied to an account, or at least tradeable.

I understand that it's a design decision, and there are other games that this exact same system (WoW has had merit equivalent rewards for a long while now) and it works very well for them, but COX is vastly different in that it rewards extreme altism and this system is very, very unfriendly to that.


(BTW, I'll come back to edit this later, but I'm posting buzzed right now and I know editing things will continue to make this post worse )

[ QUOTE ]
Search your feelings. You know it to be true.


[/ QUOTE ]

My feelings tell me I have a million dollars in the bank. I don't think it'd be good to act on those Also, some of us have a DOOOOOOOOM streak a mile long.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, PaRappa the Rapper says: "U copy postin': AWFUL. "

[/ QUOTE ]

I copied because you failed to answer the core critical question.

For instance, if I told you that logging out in the easter egg room enabled the Big Red Ball Temp, would you not want some sort of evidence of that other than that we would *want* it to be true?

[ QUOTE ]
I would find it intensely odd if it were per account. Nearly all the discussion on the day jobs so far have been assuming that it's per character, and I'd consider it a major failing on the staff's part if they didn't clear up the distinction at any point.

Consider, though, that the character selection screen already tracks how many days it's been since you last logged in a character. If they were only concerned with the account and not the individual characters, they probably wouldn't bother with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

The log in timer was put in when someone asked for it because they had difficulty with the market timer eating their stuff. It had nothing to do with day jobs, nor looks at anything day job related.

The core if the confusion comes about because A) other games do a per-account offline reward, and B) all official discussions interchange character and player when describing it, and both have very different meanings in that context.

All that I'm saying is that I wouldn't be surprised if it was per account.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the red names stopped reading this thread about 20 pages back, and therefore won't be providing confirmation without prodding.

[ QUOTE ]
It's per character logged out.

Also, supposedly, it was said at Hero Con that the timers are already counting to give credit for Day Job badges. I'm assuming that this started with the patch that added the Cyborg Superbooster costume pack (but I have no proof of this).

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for that? I've tried several nicely worded PM's asking for confirmation, and so far haven't gotten a response back. (I chalked it up to hero con though.)

As far as I've seen, there hasn't been anything officially posted confirming which way it works.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok so it is a confirmed thing that you can still play on another character and still gain the rewards on another character?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for that? I've tried several nicely worded PM's asking for confirmation, and so far haven't gotten a response back. (I chalked it up to hero con though.)

As far as I've seen, there hasn't been anything officially posted confirming which way it works.

[ QUOTE ]
Is the dropping of Tier 1's from Treats intentional or a bug?

[/ QUOTE ]

I had heard that if you got a treat with a rock, costume, or salvage, you got a tier 1 insp, otherwise it would be the tier 3. Is that what you are running into?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

I'd agree that double negatives are bad....

[/ QUOTE ]

In this situation I think that the usage was appropriate. The negations do not cancel out.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, trolling.

[ QUOTE ]
b) I'm hardly "clamoring", I just said that's the way I would have done it. What I have stood by is that it is not a design goal of the badge system for any one character to be able to have every badge in the game, meaning that the complaints about getting all the day job badges on one character are simply not to the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that there are badges for having multiple day jobs, would you agree that the devs didn't intend for people to not have multiple day job badges?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what is behind the resistance is to lowering the time needed

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the DEVs intend every/any character to have all the Day Job badges.
I think they will end up getting nerfed of players start trying to get all the Day Job badges on each character.

I'm pretty sure it is intended for extra flavor and not a mini-maxing thing.

I'm starting to think that they should limit any character to only having 4 or 5 Day Job badges. That would limit the number of Accolades a character could earn, and maybe that would stop this discussion about needing reduced time for each badge because each character MUST learn all the Day Job badges as QUICKLY as possible and because the set time is ALREADY (pre-release) TOO LONG to wait!
Yikes!

[/ QUOTE ]

The accolade powers require charges. There aren't any balance issues with having all the badges, because the powers can only be charged every 192 hours of offline time anyway.

The only people clamoring for people not to be able to get more than a few are, well, you and Venture, and at least he's just trolling.

[ QUOTE ]
Two words:

Beef

Cake


He has Passport? And Bug Hunter?

On the same character?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually.....

(one time I looked at beef's badges while he was standing in Wentworths. It nearly crashed my system. true story. >&gt

[ QUOTE ]
<QR>

If badge earning time is dependent on getting the bonus powers remove the bonus powers. Most badges don't give you a bonus anyway. If you want to still get powers than make the accolades need 3 or 4 badges instead of 2 and you have your 60 days to get a temp power.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bonus powers are the entire point of the system. Without them, the system would just be lame and inane.

The badges are a side effect of the system, with an additional side effect of making the powers recharge faster.

[ QUOTE ]

While Day Jobs might not satify collectors like you that like to collect from bounded collections, they do satisfy collectors like me that like to collect from unbounded collections. And that's fine; not everything in the game needs to be for everybody.

Exploration badges, History badges, Accomplishment badges, and Achievement badges are all bounded collections that are there for collectors like you, and Day Job badges are there for collectors like me.

Why should your style of collecting have a monopoly on the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

See, that's a reasonable point of view.

Why couldn't someone post something like that earlier, instead of things like "I don't think you should even be able to get everything, and I'm happy that you won't" which at best is mildly combative.

At this point, everyone should probably agree to disagree unless something new to talk about comes up.

[ QUOTE ]

The thing is, most of us badgers are okay with the idea of removing things that not everyone can obtain from the official badge total.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't go by badge total, I go by shiny reward. I don't have the 1-8 times the victor badge either, and don't plan on getting it even though it's apparent they'll never bother to go back to fix that bug.


[ QUOTE ]
As long as the badgers can stand to do it, they'll keep going after anything that's called a "badge" in the game. And when they can't stand it anymore, they'll probably quit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm at badge burnout right now for pillboxes and inf. I'll probably never get those badges on either of my badgers. Particularly, for pillboxes.

[ QUOTE ]
Issue 13 seems to be really bothering a lot of hardcore players for different reasons:
*The badgers are bothered by Day Jobs


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not bothered by the concept of them, unlike some snarky individuals. I'm not even bothered by not being able to grind out a bunch in a single weekend. I just disagree on the time investment needed.

[ QUOTE ]
*The PVPers are bothered by the PVP changes

[/ QUOTE ]

The goal of the changes I think are good, but it's going to be completely different from what is there currently. PVP will pretty much be completely changed.

[ QUOTE ]
*Inf and Market Farmers are going to be bothered by Merits

[/ QUOTE ]

If implemented poorly, Merits will cause the markets to sky rocket, particularly good-but-not-great pool C recipes. If implemented well, Merits will help introduce even more market volatility which is what market farmers thrive on anyway.

Also, demand for invention salvage is going to rocket through the roof with the base salvage change, not too mention dual builds having a completely separate set of enhancements driving demand up even further.

I don't think the market hounds will do badly.

[ QUOTE ]
*Levelling Pacts give another tool to use for power levellers, which creates more "n00bs" who have no idea how to use their characters--which affects the PVE players (regardless of how they feel about badges, PVP, farming, or PLing).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it will have any additional effect. Yay, instead of spending time to level up 2 separate characters, I can now spend twice the time leveling up two characters! It's the same amount of time. The people PL'ing before, will PL now. The people that didn't PL before, won't PL now. There are some additional, interesting effects that may pan out, but it's not going to be a big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
The only things I haven't heard any legitimate complaints about were ... Dual-Builds, which people run from "Meh" to mildly excited over (haven't heard a single person say, "You're ruining my character by giving the option for dual builds!" other than people complaining about the cost of min/maxing another build).

[/ QUOTE ]

Dual builds *will* have an effect on the market, whether you plan on using it or not. Otherwise, it's pure win.

[ QUOTE ]
* A Heal Event now imposes a 25% Resistance to further heals on the character, regardless of source. This Resistance to heals will last for 15 seconds, and stacks with itself. This means that if you are healed 4 times, no further healing will affect you until the resistance duration ends.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question is if a heal that doesn't heal you, imposes the penalty. I can see some unfortunate griefing with an "ally" healing you continuously to prevent you from healing any further if it applies.

But yeah, Arena = PVP mode = No more arena healing

Unless the requirements are lowered, Empath will become a villain only badge. (Hmm, with pain domination for MM's, I guess that means that now 3 different corruptors and a MM can now grind out Empath in a month.)

[ QUOTE ]

How many Day Jobs can a hero have?
What is this turning into? City of Temp Services?


[/ QUOTE ]

The badges represent things you have done, not *what you are doing*

[ QUOTE ]
I have a method that I believe satisfies most, if not all of the complaints, while retaining the system flexibility, in my signature as a hyperlink. It uses existing methods for badge representation to keep Day Jobs to "one" badge entry, while allowing people who want to change their jobs to be able to do so within the current confines of the rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are forgetting about accolades for day jobs, including the mythical Renaissance Man(Woman) accolade for having all of them, as well as the badges for having 5 and 10 day job badges.

The idea that players should only have one day job is coming from players, not the devs.

The badges represent things you have done, not *what you are doing*


You still have to go back to locations that you already have the badge for to get a previous buffs or to recharge a day job accolade.

I'd say those charges take a tad too long as well, but it's very much a game balance issue at that point.

BTW, the core difference in our sides of the issue is that yours seems to be "I don't think you should have that", while mine is "I think that's a bit more of a time investment than is really needed."

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to throw out a hypothetical question to the people that don't like the 30 days., mostly to satisfy my own curiosity.


[/ QUOTE ]

My issue is that it isn't 30 days. It's 30 * 24 hours, which means that it grants in more than a month. It's just a really, really high number for 1 badge. I expect an Epic badge to take 30 days of real life time to get. I don't expect that every single new badge introduced should be equivalent (in my mind) to an epic badge's requirements.

[ QUOTE ]

I've become much less of a Badge [censored] since Inventions came out. The task of crafting for Badges broke my desire to "have them all" as it were. I'm ok with that. There was always a list of Badges that had an asterisk in my mind, denoting the fact that I would never earn them in my career in the game. At a certain point, it's just not worth it. I'd rather spend my time playing the game instead of worrying about which Badges I need to work toward.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't quit, but the number of badges with asterisks would be so great I'd probably just drop all forms of collective badging altogether and stick with accolade-only badges.

Personally, I think that 240 hours to get 2 hours of benefit is too high of a ratio. I understand the desire to not make the game about farming for day job bonuses, but I don't really think the numbers came from anywhere except "Well, it sounds good to me".

Here are my personal preferences assuming no new code:
Full Benefit gained with no badge: 22 hours * 10
Full Benefit gained once badge achieved: 22 hours * 8
Badge achieved with gaining the full benefit twice: 22 hours * 10 * 2

I'll note that with these numbers it still takes a while, but you are still likely to get the power within 10 days instead of two weeks, and even if the badge requirement was kept at 3 grants of the power you could still get it within a month instead of actually needing closer to 40 days depending on actual playtime.

[ QUOTE ]

I have patience. It's apparently a rare trait these days.


[/ QUOTE ]

I farmed Empath. Patience what now?

(of course, I'd never *ever* farm Empath twice. I do have a Hero and a Villain badger, but only one of them will have that badge.)


Side note, months ago I had a conversation with a prominent badger about day jobs joking about how they could make it as awful as possible (or, screw the pooch as my grand parents would say.) One of us jokingly said "I know, make you stay logged out for a month straight.".

[ QUOTE ]
You know, there is nothing wrong with the Day Jobs feature. DEVS can add as they please and ignore the constant requests of the player base. I don't think it's a big secret that CoV is a better game than CoH but CoV has a lot fewer features. It looks like i13 and i14 will not be adding anything. It's too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I13 will be adding something that comes up every 2 weeks, and the doubled XP will be coming up even more often than that.

Not too mention new powersets, dual builds, merits, and some other quality of life features that probably haven't been announced yet.

The 2 week lag time of getting benefits from day jobs just kind of takes some sparkle from it though.

[ QUOTE ]
If it's so easy to do, then you shouldn't have a problem with getting every single job using the system as it currently is.

[/ QUOTE ]

False equivalence. You are assuming "time consuming = difficulty".

Logging out, is ridiculously easy to do. Logging out in a new location when needed, is ridiculously easy to do.

What it is, is time consuming to do so.

Oh, and I notice you didn't bother answering me, so I guess you're admitting that the dev's don't have an agenda to insure that no one has all the day-job badges and instead that's *your personal preference*.

[ QUOTE ]
If I had to guess, "I won't be able to get ALL the badges in under 8 months," is not going to persuade them to change the time required, but I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

*DING* we have a winner. The idea that they should shorten the time to achieve a badge for the sole purpose of shortening it so it'd fit within a month, just won't work. They haven't budged on the 24 hour timer that causes reward creep for daily runs (granted, it only causes creep for people that don't have multiple characters to run with, so basically anyone that would farm is unaffected) of trials and the STF/RSF, I doubt they'd budge on 30 * 24 hours.

Personally, I wish they'd switch to assuming a day is 22 hours. This allows for the elimination of reward creep, and keeps things like the badge achievable within 30 days instead of watching it creep out to 37 instead.

(With that said, I don't run daily trials or STF/RSF's, but I do recognize the issue however small as being there.)

[ QUOTE ]
The dedicated badge collectors are probably more likely to keep track of how much longer they need, and change Day Jobs in a timely fashion when the time comes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I lolled at the thought of Beef's alarm going off in the middle of the night for him to get up and switch job locations.

It's a bit more likely that he'd just log in as normal, note the new job badge, and log out somewhere else, the same as any other collector.

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, how about this: Can the developers confirm that the double xp bars would double the INF that would normally be earned instead of XP, and the extra debt removal be equally increased at level 50?

It seems to me that all the rest of these rewards are meant for all characters, why would this be an exception?

[/ QUOTE ]

What I want to know, is if it does allow for increased debt removal for 50's, does it factor into the xp gain calculated while exemping down? (for the slow, all XP gained while exemped down is directly converted to inf. Beta testers will want to verify that either it doesn't double exemped XP at all, or that it decays properly while exemped.)