Discussion - Dev Diary: Designing Day Jobs Feature
By
Aisynia,
Posted on: 2008-10-09 16:16 in Developers' Corner
what this seems to me is a back door way to get us to play alts, like the "cool down" on xp that some of the other games,
have, but they lower your xp.i already have given up on PVP badging due to my limits, now I can look forward to NOT getthing these badges due to prefering to play withother players than read a book or watch tv while my char badges,so now you can earn xp while not being logged in due to the buddy system, and now badges due to not being logged in,my question is what do we get for NOT paying our monthly fee?
answer A life
and for the record I am a 48 month vet
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I'll be making a leveling pact on new toons in I13 with my second account (don't have a second PC) and then play one character for 10 days not logging in the second. After 10 days I will play the other toon for double experience (which in this case is normal xp) and not play the other toon for 10 days. Then repeat so I get normal xp for at least one level everytime 10 days.
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I am surprised over and over at how much people complain. This is suppose to be a mini-game to play while ur logged out. Not somethin u have to do as fast as possible, its extra stuff. Why does everyone want everythin instantly? I hear people complain about how that ruined other games becuase of people wantin everythin now now. Calm down it suppose to take time to get rewards, why dont u just complain it takes a year to get the 12 month badge and how bout the devs make it only 6 months while ur all at it. I think this is a sweet thing to add that gives us somethin in which we used to get nothin, not playin.
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A mini game? I didn't know I was playing WHILE I AM LOGGED OFF!
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The mini-game (if you want to call it that) is selecting the place to log out. Basically, the game gives you one last move to make before you call it a night/day.
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In case it was ever in doubt, I can now link people to this thread for the absolute proof that some players will complain about literally getting something for nothing.
Way to raise the bar on DOOOOOOMsaying, folks!
As for myself, whenever I see a hardcore element of the community whining about something, I know it's good for me. Go, Devs, Go! 
Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.
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why does everyone (mostly) want to just blow thru content? It seems ost want everythign right now.. I think the system is great the way its explained... They only problem i see is for people ( the few ) that only play one toon. If i am hooked on playing a toon all my other toons will be earning rested XP, bonuses and other rewards. Its a great idea and system.
I like it, I hope it stays as is...
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THIS IS NOT CONTENT!
I do not have to do anything for it other than make sure my character is logged out in the right place.
I don't want to blow through content. In fact I want more content but instead I get this.
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I don't really care for this feature but will give it a try when it goes live. I am rather disappointed that this feature was added and no new lower lvl Vills content was added. If I had to pick 1 item out of the two it would be more content. When I say new content I mean just that...new content. Not the same old tile sets repeated with the same old mobs and characters. IMO the dire need in this game is for NEW content for us to PLAY. The repetitive nature of this game is driving me away.
I love this system! I love the Accolades, I love the double XP, I love that it encourages alts and I love that you can't have every Day Job there is inside of a couple of months (thereby trivializing it).
Oh, and it'll let me get a Web Grenade back on my Weapons Scrapper. 
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I see two problems with this system:
1) What if something goes wrong? What if I leave my main in the right place then log off for 30 days, and when I come back I find out the badge is bugged? What if a server reset or a sync problem or a new patch stops the timer. Worse still - what if something *resets* the timer (like a big patch)?
a lot of paranoid badge hunters will be logging their badge character in every couple of days to check their progress and crying if something has gone wrong.
2) What happens when the Architect arrives?
From the descriptions of Issue 14 it sounds like my main will need to spend many many hours logged in using the mission creator in order to earn all those badges. If I have these day job badges weighing on my mind then everything I ever do form Issue 13 onwards using my main will feel pressured and rushed, especially big stuff like the mission creator. I will always be wanting to hurry up and log back out to continue my day job progress.
When Issue 13 goes live my main will log in, grab all the badges and extras that are part of the new issue, then log out quickly to start earning the first day job badge. She will only ever return to check back on badge progress and change log-out location.
That's going to conflict a LOT with Issue 14's content if I suddenly need ot keep my main logged IN to unlock the mission creator content and fiddle with my story arcs... 
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You know, I've already got badges for being here over 40 months, and value the powers that takes a long time to get. So what if I can't get this stuff /now/. I have other stuff in the veteran rewards that I want but can't get for a while either... and they're going to add even more stuff out of my reach for a while. Its not the end of the world that it takes a while to get these things... I'm not going anywhere, and this stuff will come in due time just like everything else does. The only thing this does is gives me more of an excuse to play multiple characters more.
The day job system sounds pretty fair too me. How can you complain about a badge taking 30 days when you need to burn even more time to get the immortal badge.
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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.
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This makes a lot of sense to me. Let's dump the whole mechanic that gives a little bonus to folks, something else to do in the game, and throws the RPers a bone, because it may interfere with a few folks' obsessive compulsion.
I wouldn't mind if the amount of time to earn the badge is reduced, but to me this is like getting something for nothing. There's no downside.
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Snow_Globe isn't completely off his rocker here. There is an intrinsic value to the badge system that actual badge collectors provide. Unless it is required for an accolade or other unlockable, only completists really go after, or even care about things like explore badges, or many of the defeat badges. The devs have sent mixed messages about the badge system by statement and action for as long as the badge system has been in place. It is not unambiguously a given that players just aren't supposed to be able to get all the badges as Venture claims. In an absolute sense, that's technically true, but the devs have always hoped that the players would pursue everything else.
You can't tell people "be a collector, of some stuff." That's incompatible with the collector mindset, and a good game designer should acknowledge the target audience they are targetting. If the devs are targetting people who care enough to pursue some of the badges with no meaning beyond collection, and will happily ignore all the ones that are designed to be out of reach, they are targetting a phone booth: there aren't bound to be lots of people like that.
*If* the devs push the collector mindset too far, they could devalue badge collecting past a tipping point, and simply eliminate collectors from the system. The only people left would be the ones who would only pursue badges if there was something else in it for them. And in that case, badges cease to be a meaningful reward item in the game. They would only be a game mechanical contrivance to act as a placeholder to unlock the *true* rewards.
That is a gameplay loss of some value. Why its not a higher priority to address is something that I'm honestly not sure about. It almost seems like the Powers That Be think its something they can fix whenever they want, so its a low priority. I'm not sure I agree. I don't think there's any danger *now* to the badge system, but I also believe that the first sign I detect that it is in danger will be when its dead. We're not going to have swimming polar bears giving us a hint.
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I love this system! I love the Accolades, I love the double XP, I love that it encourages alts and I love that you can't have every Day Job there is inside of a couple of months (thereby trivializing it).
Oh, and it'll let me get a Web Grenade back on my Weapons Scrapper.
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Agree. Even with giving the man back his webnade.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
No badge for logging/disconnecting while in the arena 
cuz I like to Pvp...you know...with gladiators ...and stuff!
I think the Devs might have limited the day jobs to a smaller number because of the huge 30 day timer on them. I would much prefer there to be far more jobs (like 60 instead of 12) with a far smaller timer on them (1 week instead of 1 month).
Some of the badges/accolades could even give the exact same rewards.
Having a shorter timer but more badges doesn't really change the system - it doesn't make getting them all any easier. What it does is reward "effort" at a faster pace and that just makes things more fun. It would feel better to us collector badge-hunter types.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
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Even if you played 12hrs a day on your favorite character, that still leaves 12hrs a day that you're accumulating day job badges. (And I hope there's no one playing that much for more than a weekend or two at a time.....get a life, people! ). These badges will still be earned faster than farming for Epic badges, and they actually give you benefits for having them besides being lost in the list of the other badges you've earned. There's no possible way not to be earning something, unless you choose to stubbornly log out in the same place every time even after you've earned the badge for that location. Don't see the problem. The Devs put in a "Earn badges the easiest way possible" button.
People asked for a change to the way some things are done, the Dev's have given us something different, and now we're complaining that it's not the way things are right now......sigh. Another "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" moment if there ever was one.
I like that the bonuses we're getting are actually useful, and rechargable. Thank you, Devs.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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No badge for logging/disconnecting while in the arena
cuz I like to Pvp...you know...with gladiators ...and stuff!
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The list they gave us is not the full list. I'm sure the Arenas are part of it.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Even if you played 12hrs a day on your favorite character, that still leaves 12hrs a day that you're accumulating day job badges. (And I hope there's no one playing that much for more than a weekend or two at a time.....get a life, people! ). These badges will still be earned faster than farming for Epic badges, and they actually give you benefits for having them besides being lost in the list of the other badges you've earned. There's no possible way not to be earning something, unless you choose to stubbornly log out in the same place every time even after you've earned the badge for that location. Don't see the problem. The Devs put in a "Earn badges the easiest way possible" button.
People asked for a change to the way some things are done, the Dev's have given us something different, and now we're complaining that it's not the way things are right now......sigh. Another "Damned if you do, Damned if you don't" moment if there ever was one.
I like that the bonuses we're getting are actually useful, and rechargable. Thank you, Devs.
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i never saw any badger asking for 1 badge to be earned 720 hours of not playing their toons.......
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Badgers are collectors. Setting this system up the way it is is bound to feel punishing to that personality type.
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This makes a lot of sense to me. Let's dump the whole mechanic that gives a little bonus to folks, something else to do in the game, and throws the RPers a bone, because it may interfere with a few folks' obsessive compulsion.
I wouldn't mind if the amount of time to earn the badge is reduced, but to me this is like getting something for nothing. There's no downside.
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Please show me where I ask to get rid of the system entirely. I never did. I said there was a problem with badges. The rest of my initial comments were directed at getting more clarification and hopes to correct something before it becomes a problem.
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This feature is ... interesting.
Not bad, kinda nice, still ruminating.
Interesting, hmm.
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i remember seeing some where that the day job badges were linked to costumes
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Day job badges are NOT linked to costumes.
The day job related costumes are free, unlocked at the start, content in Issue 13.
And the 30 days is what we are initially going with. The values may change in beta.
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I sure hope it does. No offense, but it's kind of absurd. That means for the badges you have LISTED, I have to log my main, my badge hunter, my favorite character out... for AT LEAST A YEAR.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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That comment is so outdated, and has already been proven to be a false comment by quite a few people.
My comment is 100% true because there are badges that aren't available any more. Anniversary badges and Passport for examples. At least one (Bug Hunter) is problematic. We also have to consider the entire discussion as being qualified to "all badges available for a given side" since we don't have side-switching yet. Oh, and we have to make an exception for the "Ten Times the Victor" series, don't we now? And Patron badges? Even with these qualifications, does there exist a single character who does, in fact, have every single badge a hero or villain could acquire?
While the developers didn't really design the badge system to actually prohibit a character from having all of his side's badges -- something I would have done on Day One to pre-empt this entire debate -- they've also made it pretty clear that such is not a design goal. Badges are as easy or difficulty to acquire as the devs feel is appropriate, particularly for badges that provide actual benefits. If you insist that you've "gotta catch 'em all", it's your problem.
Then again we arent you so our opinions are obviously dont mean anything
It's amazing how many people don't realise that.
"Why do you always make such a big deal out of things...haven't you learned, if it's not happening to me it's not important?" -- Murphy Brown
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Venture,
I.... I AGREE with you.
Some badges- like these- serve to give some differentiation to a character. Sure, eventually you can earn plenty of them, but only after great length of time. That's good- as the rewards ARE powers that, if appearing too frequently, could be a little imbalancing. This is a clever way to make the player prioritize.
There are all sorts of badging philosophies- and not all of them are necessarily "gotta have them all." For all I encourage the badgers, virtually all of my non-exploration badges are "badges of accident." I enjoy every badge I get, but don't chase after any of them. If I earn a wentworths' badge, its cool, but I don't pad sales to reach that goal. I like seeing how my different characters earn badges differently based on their unique experiences.
For a player like me, these badges are a good fit. I'll choose different day jobs based on what fits the characters, play any alt I want and not worry that my 4 hours online has delayed me from earning a little token by that much.
I like it.
How long does it take to earn Empath? Or Immortal? Or... Leader?
All 3 of which can be farmed while AFK and take hours upon hours to complete. How are they any different?
I mean, I don't completely agree with the time frame they're outlining but it wouldn't be unprecedented that a badge took a long time to earn.
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What I don't understand is why people think they can't play. If you want to get day jobs done on one alt, play any of your other 30 alts you've made. Just because you're playing one character doesn't mean the other one is not logged out. You can simultaneously earn a day job badge on 100 alts while playing one nonstop if you want.
Liberty
My 50s:
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Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)
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Double XP does a level 50 how much good?
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If it doesn't do any good, would that be a problem?
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A reward that isn't a reward is a problem. A big one.
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Not if its not intended to be a reward for level 50s in the first place. XP itself is a reward that has no benefit to 50s, because 50s don't need to level anymore. That doesn't make XP itself problematic.
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Ok, how about this: Can the developers confirm that the double xp bars would double the INF that would normally be earned instead of XP, and the extra debt removal be equally increased at level 50?
It seems to me that all the rest of these rewards are meant for all characters, why would this be an exception?
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Double XP does a level 50 how much good?
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If it doesn't do any good, would that be a problem?
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A reward that isn't a reward is a problem. A big one.
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Not if its not intended to be a reward for level 50s in the first place. XP itself is a reward that has no benefit to 50s, because 50s don't need to level anymore. That doesn't make XP itself problematic.
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