Discussion: Issue 13: Architect
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-08-26 09:40 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering? 
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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It's out already???
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No, he was joking. Should be out in a month they said.
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did i miss something? I thought it would be coming out with i13?
" I don't let me kids play on the Freedom Server" -Oya
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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Frankly, I don't think the actual mission designers are necessarily thrilled about the player mission editor. First of all, its a player-requested feature, so its not a grand conspiracy to lower their workload.
Second, its extremely unlikely that the devs will reduce the amount of story-driven content in the game just because the players are making player-generated missions, and player-generated missions, being outside of canon, cannot progress the story of the game in any case; they will still have to crank out just as much mission content as before.
Third, if the player mission editor system is successful, its very likely to cause harsher criticism to be directed to the dev-generated mission content, since there will now be content to compare it to. There could be one thousand crap missions for every one good one, but the good one will be held up as an example for the devs to *beat* since it was, after all, a volunteer effort, while the devs get paid to do it.
There's thousands of players, and only a couple mission designers, but they will probably be getting "so why didn't you guys think to do this" complaints until the end of time.
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I'm looking forward to Pain Domination and really looking forward to the mission creator.
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering?
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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It's out already???
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No, he was joking. Should be out in a month they said.
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did i miss something? I thought it would be coming out with i13?
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From Posi's letter, "Outlining the Architect" :
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Finally, I want to tell you about two "Booster Packs" that will be available in a month or so.
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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One of the biggest problems with retaining customers in MMOs is that players consume content far, far faster than developers can create it. The standard MMO method of alleviating this problem is through grind-- slow leveling curves, low chance of good random loot drops, and other time sinks.
Player created content is the Holy Grail of the MMO industry, as it would significantly reduce the need for time sinks because people would have so much more to do. While most people have been trying to make PvP fit that bill, and generally failing because PvPers are such a small subset of the MMO audience, I think CoH has a shot at actually have reaching it with the mission creator. It's too bad the game didn't launch with it.
I know your post is more about rewards, but we haven't even seen what they are planning for that yet.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night? ( Something to do with the amount of power needed to run and less people using electricity at night ) Can't recall the name of the show for the life of me.
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Automan?
EDIT: Too slow.
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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion
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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.
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Nope.
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I see nothing in there about power customization.
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You didn't see anything in there about Power Customization? What about this part:
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You guys have a very serious misunderstanding of what a new engine would do for the game. Most of the limitiations that we work with in this game are related to systems, which are only related to the game engine in that they go through it to get to your monitor/speakers. A lack of power customization has very little to do with the actual engine and a great deal to do with how the power/animation/fx system was originally designed to work with each other. The engine itself is more than capable of making fire particles any color of the rainbow, but it's the system that ties particle FX, player model animations, and power attributes all together that's inflexible...mainly because whoever originally designed the system just didn't forsee a need to ever make that relationship dynamic.
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He's clearly discussing Power Customization there.
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However, I absolutely recall devs saying in the past when the topic comes up that the engine is why it can't be done without a MAJOR amount of work cobbling in some work-around. Basically that a new engine accommodating it would be faster and easier than a hacked work-around.
Edit: Now, to be clear, I'm sure that a new engine wouldn't be the -only- thing needed. But it'd be a big step along the way.
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See the above quote. It's not the "engine" itself that's the problem. But like I said earlier, the confusion probably lies in the fact that what most players really have no clue what the term "game engine" means (at least in the context of this game).
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Automan?
EDIT: Too slow.
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Automan was awesome, what was that little flying thing around him called, "cue"? And wasn't I luv Lucy's son the average dude in it. Tv at it's best.
So uh...what happens when I log out from the secret lounge in Faultline? Is my day job an NCSoft programmer?
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Automan?
EDIT: Too slow.
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Automan was awesome, what was that little flying thing around him called, "cue"? And wasn't I luv Lucy's son the average dude in it. Tv at it's best.
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Cursor was its name.
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Automan?
EDIT: Too slow.
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Automan was awesome, what was that little flying thing around him called, "cue"? And wasn't I luv Lucy's son the average dude in it. Tv at it's best.
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The shows name was Circutry Man.
And how sad is it that only the mention of this show could bring me out of Lurk mode.
Im disliking this issue, i think the name is weak and uninspiring
the mission design tool, though Im sure many will like many more play this game to play, not to do the developers work for them, give me a powerset design tool and I will personally have fun, but this feature is a huge miss for me.
Sheilds and villain empathy dont get me hot and bothered either, buffs and defence are not especially exciting
Cimmerora is zzz, doubt a couple of missions there will change my mind
Patron respecs should have been working in i7, patron powers still need balancing for "parity" with heroes.
Rewards for logging out? W T F........
Im more excited about the cyborg pack sadly enough.......
Whats worse is that Champions online is looking better and better 
*please not the above is my opinion and Im entitled to it, I know and appeciate many will not feel the same way 
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Uh, they've never said Power Customization is undoable due to the engine. They've said that the amount of work it would take to make every single power in the game customizable is so massive that we'll never see it. I don't think building a new engine would fix that problem, as it would, again, require a butt-load of work, no?
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Uh, they've never said Power Customization is undoable due to the engine. They've said that the amount of work it would take to make every single power in the game customizable is so massive that we'll never see it. I don't think building a new engine would fix that problem, as it would, again, require a butt-load of work, no?
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BABs recently posted a new engine wont solve the power customization problem.
The problem is the way the game itself was coded not in the way that it runs on the engine. We've already had an Engine update when we got CoV.
To give us the power customization they, to my understanding, would need to nearly completely rebuild the entire powers system and how it interacts with the AI.
As much as I want plasma stream to be able to fire pink and blue energy blasts, in my opinion FWIW the Developers have better things to do to push the game forward.
Maybe, maybe if there is a paid box expansion in a year or so, they will be given a go ahead to do power customization as part of that in the hopes of the additional stream of revenue that will come in from said paid box.
Until then, engine wont do it and they are busy with other things.
At least thats how I understand it.
YMMV
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I am kinda meh about this issue so far. I think i was expecting alot more considering i12 was supposed to be a smaller issue that set up the next couple of issues. New powersets are always welcome but i think other powers are needed not just the melee power sets. The day job thing sounds knda blah considering your not getting a reward for anything other then logging out in a certain place. My opinion is a reward should be worked for not just given. Again my opinion i think i was expecting alot more. I need new zones and new powers to keep me entertained. The devs have done some really cool stuff that has surprised me in the past so hopefully ill be surprised by the new issue.
Where are the NEW ZONES for VILLAINS?
Gosh where is the New Content for Villains?
SoA
Y.U.C.K.
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Content creator.. I am hoping is alot like this:
The Heroes of Might and Magic Map Editor
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Pain Domination sounds delightful..
If there was NEW low level content Villainside
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Day Jobs
I hope I can find one I like..
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Tokens
I worked long hours to get my alts the way I want them.. Put the effort into my passion and I reap the rewards.
I REALLY HOPE the token system doesnt poopoo on all the work I put into my alts.
The reason I say this, is I got the impression.. with a few tokens people can just buy whatever I might have paid 45 million for..
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Uh, they've never said Power Customization is undoable due to the engine. They've said that the amount of work it would take to make every single power in the game customizable is so massive that we'll never see it. I don't think building a new engine would fix that problem, as it would, again, require a butt-load of work, no?
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BABs recently posted a new engine wont solve the power customization problem.
The problem is the way the game itself was coded not in the way that it runs on the engine. We've already had an Engine update when we got CoV.
To give us the power customization they, to my understanding, would need to nearly completely rebuild the entire powers system and how it interacts with the AI.
As much as I want plasma stream to be able to fire pink and blue energy blasts, in my opinion FWIW the Developers have better things to do to push the game forward.
Maybe, maybe if there is a paid box expansion in a year or so, they will be given a go ahead to do power customization as part of that in the hopes of the additional stream of revenue that will come in from said paid box.
Until then, engine wont do it and they are busy with other things.
At least thats how I understand it.
YMMV
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Reguardless of the work it will take, I and many others, beleive it will be needed to stay competative.
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So far this issue is about a 5 outa 10 for me, but I'm hopeful there is more to come. The QoL things are great, but hopefully a few missions in Cimeroa is not the only content.
I gotta say with the news coming out about (That other game XD) and the things they r doing, i'm a little disappointed about the lack of personal storyline customization.... I was really hoping to be able to create my own AV(s) to battle throughout a personalized storyline. My concern comes out of a love for this game and a worry that we will lose ppl to another game thus making my gaming experience less joyful. Other than that i do look forward to Iss 13 and future Iss' GL guys and plz lemme know if we r gonna br able to create personalized AV(s). Thnx Oz
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So uh...what happens when I log out from the secret lounge in Faultline? Is my day job an NCSoft programmer?
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More like part of the QA department where you are under appreciated, unloved, you work too many hours, you don't earn merits, you only get pizza once a week, but you DO have the ability to survive the new Controller primary "Producer" power called "Crunch" (it's a long term AoE power that slowly makes you Disoriented until it finally induces Sleep...)
It took me 2 days to finally articulate my response to this announcement to the features to I13 and all I could come is WOW!
I am really looking forward to the architect part of this release the most of all, and then you toss in 2 more power sets and a plethora of added goodies, again I must say wow, and I can wait to the beta phase of this issue...
Keep up the great work devs.
It takes a lot to get me to post on the forums but you manged somehow make me sit up and get my attention.
/em Cracks the whip
Now get to work dev!
SO the heroes are getting secret identity day jobs. Are the villians also getting access to this system? Thematically it would be an ackward fit.
"So Doug, where are those TPS reports?"
"*muttering* In the plasma cannon I keep secretly pointed at your house night and day. Waiting for you be on the verge of acheiving one moment of true happiness so that I may pulll the trigger and prevent you from having it!"
"What?"
"I said they're on the way!"
"Good stuff!"
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Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night?
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Automan.
"Cursor! The Auto-coptor!"
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No it wasn't that he could only come out at night. He could only manifest himself is he had sufficient electrical power in the area. That scene came from one of the early episodes (might have been the pilot) where he was out in the rual areas after a car chase. That rual area didn't have the number of powerlines that the downtown did. He couldn't stay because the energy demands on the available increased as people started to wake up. And another factoid - His cover when interacting with others was FBI Agent Otto Man.
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Seriously guys... why would you give the "Domination" name to another powerset that isn't available to Doms? Stop that.
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Cold domination is the only other one right?
" I don't let me kids play on the Freedom Server" -Oya