Discussion: Issue 13: Architect
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-08-26 09:40 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I REALLY HOPE the token system doesnt poopoo on all the work I put into my alts. The reason I say this, is I got the impression.. with a few tokens people can just buy whatever I might have paid 45 million for..
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Not everyone in the game has the time to deal with the mess that the auctionhouse has become. I would bet concern for the casuals' experiance with this will matter more to them at this point.
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Has become? I was avoiding WentWorths for the longest time but recently it seems to have become more tolerable, or maybe nothing's changed and somehow I got smart enough to figure out how to use it, at least in a rudimentary fashion. I don't have the ability yet to wheel and deal like crazy, but I can sell what salvage and recipies I find with only some difficulty. Every once in awhile it even almost achieves what I would classify as "fun."
I do wish there were a better way to figure out the fair and just going price for things. That takes some legwork and not a few "learning the hard way"s. Like you sell something and then immediately afterwards you wanna slam your forehead with the palm of your hand; had you done it differently you would have made more inf.
Perhaps part of the fun of the game is some people just don't know that and other people take advantage of their ignorance? Not very heroic of some people, but there ya go.
I'm also not sure what playing the trading game has to do with being a super hero. However, it's not like it's gotten worse recently. If anything, it's gotten easier to manage.
Those green blazers tho. What an eyesore. 
Those who accumulate tokens will have to work at least as hard at accumulating those as the people who bought at the consignment house. Time is also a resource. I'm sure it'll all even out in the wash. Nothing to worry about.
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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion
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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.
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Nope.
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Right. If you read that post, it's clear that a new game engine wouldn't lead to power customization. Power customization would require a retooling of the ENTIRE GAME, which encompasses "the engine, the hardocoded systems, the soft coded scripts, and the overall design decisions that those things were originally built around."
IOW, if we ever do get power customization, it'll take a lot MORE than "just" retooling the game engine.
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Actually from what I understood, it wouldn't involve the engine very much, if at all, but instead would be a massive, fundamental reworking of how the powers system itself works.
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Yeah, technically the engine itself probably wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it; I was just pointing out that the people who think it's JUST the engine that would need redone are thinking too small. The things they'd have to do to get power customization working would be a lot harder and, well, bigger, than an engine retooling.
EDIT: Actually, though, now that I think about it, the misunderstanding probably stems from the fact that most players don't really know what the "game engine" really is.
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Changing power colors on your own machine is a fairly easy graphics overlay.... for instance, making ALL forcefields purple instead of green.
making power colors from TOHERS change..... that'd be a whole new mess. :-(
as an added benifit of the current system, if I don't want to see my teammates (colorchanged)Indego sonic bubble, I can change it to a nice netural beige :-) and they can keep looking at their blueish bubble.
Interesting Info thread, eh?
Sounds like a RickRoll to me, lol
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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If they ever do the "Secret Identity" thing with CoH...
[/ QUOTE ] I seem to recall that in Beta one of the developers was asked if there there would be secret identities.
"Yes" he said. Then looked around and in a loud faux whisper "It's YOU!"
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Rial_Vestro thanks for the feedback.
Update: I should have been clearer on the costume selection. The costume dialog I was refering to is the one you get showing you your current costume slots you already have, not so much creating a new one (ala 'costumes' from the menu).
I guess I suggested limiting the player NPC powers because no matter how involved the story is, it is still about the players experience in the game and what they can do, not the achievements of the NPCs in the mission.
It also provides a simpler solution that hopefully has a better chance of seeing the light of day! (*smiles at Devs*)
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OK I understand the limitation of NPC powers to some exstent but I still don't think they should be limited to ONLY useing 1 Defencive and 1 Offencive power. First off all depending on what the character is they may not have any of one and all of the other. Maybe limit them to 1/4 of your total powers so you could choose 1 power from each pool and you would have a wider selection of your Primary and Secondary to choose from.
Allso exsclude any Temp Powers, Veteran Powers, or Accolades your character has from being used by your NPC. Only Primary, Secondary, Inherent, and Pool* powers are allowed.
*I'm includeing Archillary/Patron when I'm talking about Pool Powers. They are Epic Pool Powers.
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We're goping to be limited by powerset, not individual powers.
There are AI's that have to be programmed for EVERY POSSIBLE usable power combos.
For every "we can fight them, or they are pets" npc, the AI's are already worked out. 1000's... now, if you suddenly throw in ALL POSSIBLE POWER SET POWER CHOICES..... well, the number goes up logrithmically(well, at least to a really friggin high number).
that would take them YEARS to program, if they did nothing else!
if I logout in one of the cages in pocket d do I get a better taunt?
Fluffy Bunny 1 Person SG
Rabid Bunny 1 Person VG
Both on Pinnacle
Hobbit's Hole 1 Person SG
Spider's Web 1 Person VG
Both on Freedom
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Man where should i start??? What are the devs doing? Stalkers get yet another powerset in i13??? OMG and villians get Pain Domiantion??? Aren't they already dominating with widows in pvp??? When are the Heroes gonna get something thats really good? First thing that I think needs to happen in i13 is improving the PB and Ws,you know to make things fair and balanced remember that??? How about pistols for blasters? How about another good damage set for scrappers,Fire melee is great,and 1 more nice set wouldn't hurt.Tanks could use a new good set as well,since brutes have fury,and more powersets than tanks.Man you guys keep giving the villians stuff every issue and keep the heroes behind on the goods.I hope you guys got some more nice stuff to announce,cause right now it looks like a disappointing issue.
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... Yer kidding, Right? All these years people have been moaning about Vside getting hosed, and now you're complaining when it actually gets the goods?
[Stares. In amazement and disbelief.]
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I have to admit that Shields for stalkers does seem a bit misplaced. What do you need with a shield if your main defense is stealth?
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What do you do with a shield? Throw it at your enemy and knock him down!
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No no no! Don't you get it!
It's a CLOAKING SHIELD
Think people!
*holds shield on head and patrol-walks away*
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Nonono.. that's called a HAT!
Hey Lighthouse, Does this include changing the power's color? You guys did it with some of the NPCs. Like Sister, Infernal, and Synsnape speed, and we can have red enegry and elec powers . Oh I don't remeber his name but he has black decoys. I saw all 4 on the Menden Silo's TF . Oh there the other guy that use the energy punches and it is blue! :O And we can change the color of our weapons.
I know I asked this but I wanted to see what you would say. Or one of you friends I don't care.
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Man where should i start??? What are the devs doing? Stalkers get yet another powerset in i13??? OMG and villians get Pain Domiantion??? Aren't they already dominating with widows in pvp??? When are the Heroes gonna get something thats really good? First thing that I think needs to happen in i13 is improving the PB and Ws,you know to make things fair and balanced remember that??? How about pistols for blasters? How about another good damage set for scrappers,Fire melee is great,and 1 more nice set wouldn't hurt.Tanks could use a new good set as well,since brutes have fury,and more powersets than tanks.Man you guys keep giving the villians stuff every issue and keep the heroes behind on the goods.I hope you guys got some more nice stuff to announce,cause right now it looks like a disappointing issue.
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... Yer kidding, Right? All these years people have been moaning about Vside getting hosed, and now you're complaining when it actually gets the goods?
[Stares. In amazement and disbelief.]
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I have to admit that Shields for stalkers does seem a bit misplaced. What do you need with a shield if your main defense is stealth?
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What do you do with a shield? Throw it at your enemy and knock him down!
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No no no! Don't you get it!
It's a CLOAKING SHIELD
Think people!
*holds shield on head and patrol-walks away*
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Nonono.. that's called a HAT!
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for one, roflmao at the initial post... that's just... hilarious.
Secondly...Bab already posted about the shield stalker issue... if you missed it: lol Shield Stalkers
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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Hey Lighthouse, Does this include changing the power's color? You guys did it with some of the NPCs. Like Sister, Infernal, and Synsnape speed, and we can have red enegry and elec powers . Oh I don't remeber his name but he has black decoys. I saw all 4 on the Menden Silo's TF . Oh there the other guy that use the energy punches and it is blue! :O And we can change the color of our weapons.
I know I asked this but I wanted to see what you would say. Or one of you friends I don't care.
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Actually, the powers with different colors ARE actually different powers. in game, you can type [sister psyche.energy torrent] and it'll be linkable. (as just 1 example, there are 5 of her sig powers)
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
But, it has the same name. I looked and it does the same thing, you make a crone of enegry and knocked the foes back. I only see the color that is diffent 
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My point is that they had to copy the power, and then modify the animation itself. It's not as simple as adding 2 slider bars for color and tint to your creator.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
His avatar is actually a self portrait...don't waste your time trying to explain things.
Probably a good idea... back to homework land -_- Physics controls my life
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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The Max Headroom is a remake of an HBO video VJ show. The commercials and the video they did are spun off the remake.
YES I WAS A FAN! Go away now...
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They LO-LO-LOOOOOVE me!
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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You're a real "The glass is half empty" guy, aren't you? Little black raincloud, go rain on someone else's picnic.
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Yeah that's all I ever do with my recipies is sell them. I tried to use them at one point but I discovered a couple flaws in the design.
1. IOs never exspire. This looked great on paper but that's because I thought that ment they were going to level up with you. I discovered it only means you'll get the same benifit the entire time you have them so you still end up haveing to replace them even though they don't exspire.
The only thing that makes enhancements that don't exspire any good is the idea that you never have to worry about them. Stick them in and forget about them but considering you'd be severly hindering yourself if you were useing a level 15 IO at level 50 this is not actully the case.
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So, here's the deal with IOs. Level 15 common IOs are better than DOs of any level. A +3 damage DO gives 19.16% enhancement, a level 15 IO gives 19.2%. That's only slightly better, but that DO will decay to 16.66% at even level, and lower when yellow. So, if you were going to slot a DO, slot a level 15 IO instead and not only will it be better, but it will never go yellow or red. This also saves you money because you don't have to buy new enhancements at level 17.
Once you hit level 22, replace these enhancements with SOs as usual, because you can't get common IOs that have more benefit (level 25 Common IOs are equal to -1 SOs, so you might as well slot SOs instead).
At level 27, you can slot level 30 IOs. Level 30 IOs are equivalent to +1 SOs, and they never expire. If you were going to slot SOs, slot level 30 IOs instead and you get the benefit of +1 SOs all the way to 50 without ever having to replace them.
It's true that 35, 40, 45, and 50 IOs are better than level 30 IOs, but if you were going to slot SOs anyway, at least save the money and hassle of replacing them every 5 levels.
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2. The other problem I've found is the Bonuses that haveing multiple powers from the same set gives. The problem I have with this is if you want the bonus you have to have 1 of each enhancement from the same set in the same power. I had multiple of the same enhancement from a set and got no bonus from them, and I had multiple enhancements from the same set in two different powers and got no bonus from them.
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Yeah, this is intentional. You have to slot the sets in the same power. If you didn't, you wouldn't be able to have more than one copy of the same set, which is one of the ways to get the most out of IO sets. For example, 5 sets of Crushing Impact will give you a 35% accuracy bonus and a 25% recharge bonus on all of your powers, not just the attacks you slotted them in, along with a couple of other lesser bonuses.
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3. Alot of people seem to be under the impression that IOs are stronger than HOs but they actully seem to be weaker than SOs. I was looking at one of percentages as I replaced an SO of the same type and level with an IO and the number actully went down about 10%.
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Level 35+ IOs are universally better than SOs, you cannot get higher enhancement values from SOs than from level 35+ IOs. Level 30 IOs are equal to +1 SOs.
The multi-value enhancements do have lower values, but they give more of a bonus spread among the attributes they enhance. For example, a level 50 Acc/Dam/Rech enhancement gives a 21.2% bonus to each attribute. That's lower than an SO, yes, but with one enhancement, you are enhancing three attributes for a net bonus of 63.6%. To use Crushing Impact as an example again, a level 50 set gives you a total of:
Accuracy: 68.9%
Damage: 101.5% (143.1% before ED)
Endurance: 68.9%
Recharge: 68.9%
You absolutely cannot get bonuses like this from SOs. You can't even approach them. You can get them from HOs, but you will be trading about 33% from either endurance or recharge and getting extra in accuracy (which I feel is less useful, but others will disagree) because there are no HOs that combine any two of damage, endurance, and recharge-- you've only got Acc/Dams for attack slotting benefits. Meanwhile, the Crushing Impact set also gives you global set bonuses that the HOs will not, resulting in a set IO build being stronger than an HO build.
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For all these reasons I've found it easier to just ignore them. I'm sure the set bonuses would make up for the loss in the percentage but the set bonuses aren't even worth it for me if I can only access them by placeing the entire set into a single power.
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In the majority of cases, there's no loss in percentage to make up for, it's pretty much a flat out gain.
But regardless, it probably is easier for you to ignore set IOs. I highly recommend, however, following my answer to your first issue-- level 15 common IOs at level 12, SOs at 22, and level 30 common IOs at level 27. You will save millions, and the hassle of upgrading more than 3 times in a character's lifetime.
If you want, at 50 you can slot level 50 common IOs for a decent boost beyond SO level, but if you're happy with SOs, I don't see much reason to suggest that you do so (it will be expensive, for not that much gain).
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1. It's less of a hassle to replace them every 5 levels and I don't waist any money sence I sell everything I get on the Black Market for tons of Inf. In the lower levels I get a little low on money and it's harder to sell my stuff but it works itself out in the long run.
I allso earn extra money by selling TOs sence I never use them. It doesn't take long to level up to the point where I can use DOs so I can deal with no enhancments till then.
2. I'd rather have more freedom with where I put my enhancmets than to have a bunch of copies of the same set bonus.
Which is actully yet another problem I forgot to adress. The whole set thing is just a pain in my @$$. You have several damage enhancement but oh guess what they can only be used in Melee powers and all I have is range.
I remember being really pissed when I made my first IO, tried to use it and discovered I couldn't because even though it was a common enahancement like Damage that all characters can use I couldn't slot it because it was only for Melee powers.
3. The overly complicated exsplinations for how IOs work really aren't helping the cause. The original idea seemed verry simple and easy to use and I liked that idea but it's how they were actully implimented that I absolutly hate. What originally seemed like a fairly simple addition to the game turned into one of the most complicated Enhancment types in the game. HOs were actully the exact oppiste. When I originally heard about them they sounded complicated but after useing them it became overly simplified.
Yet ANOTHER reason for me to hate IOs, no one seems to bother with HOs anymore. I can't remember the last time I've ever been to a Hami raid but they use to happen every day. I've never seen anyone do a Hami raid villain side and for that matter sence that zone opened I've never even seen more than 1 other person in there.
I've even attempted Buying HOs just to see if anyone had posted any or if any raids were going on I wasn't aware of and had a few bids up for about a month and nothing was ever gained. (My bids BTW were double the amount of the hiest price for the last HO sold so there's no reason I shouldn't of gotten an HO other than no HOs were being posted.)
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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You're a real "The glass is half empty" guy, aren't you? Little black raincloud, go rain on someone else's picnic.
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Someone's gotta be on the negative side of things...
On that topic... I was curious as to how the arcs would get Integrated into the game... I personally wanted to write out a training course style story arc. Sort of like the tutorial... only a little more advanced (lvl 1-12ish content) , and more helpful (hard to get a new person to read a thousand walls of text... then they get stuck because they're freakin confused).
The initial plan was to start off with basics in a standard arc (all in galaxy, small zone, not much running. also lots of low leveled mobs so there's not much trouble getting around) Then, depending on your AT, branch off to 1 of 5 different contacts for more advanced, and AT specific missions/training. Whether this ends up working out or not, I have no idea, but I think it will be pretty sweet if it works out as I'm hoping.
I'm not working on the writing yet, as I don't know the specifics of the system, but the purpose it to help those who need help, but also be an easier way to get to the more enjoyable levels without the boredom.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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SoA
Y.U.C.K.
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O.O Have you actually PLAYED them past 24? A half-arsed played SoA at higher levels makes a well played Kheld look like a newbie. And that's saying a lot, well played Khelds rock.
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RV, we use HOs all the freakin time. Every QSTF we run (the SG), we pick up HOs instead of recipes. They still have their uses (powers like veng and fortitude, resistance toggles, singularity, rooted/integration, siphon life) there's a pretty decent sized list of powers that get good use out of HOs still.
You tell me an HO, and I'll give you a good power for it to go in.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
I hate to be the bringer of bad news... but Willpower sucks!!! you're better off rolling a regen
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^Professional Katana/regen build thread
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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.
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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.
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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.
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No, you've missed the point entirely.
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You're wasting your time. I see these types on game forums way too often. Viewing test centers and customization features like these as using customers as "free employees". Apparently it's too much for their tiny brains to comprehend that these things are completely optional basis and if they don't like "helping the devs for free", then they don't have to.
As for the mission creator specifically, it sounds like it'll be an absolutely amazing RP tool.
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No, you've missed the point entirely.
It's often said that MMO's have pen-n-paper games as their ancestor. There's one playstyle of those old p-n-p games that has never really been supported well in MMO's- the GM. In any pnp game group, there's at least one. Depending on your group size, that might be 1 in 4 or 1 in 10, but that's still a large market to tap into.
1) A market that LIKES telling stories, creating things, and sharing them. Something they can only find in limited ways in other places, meaning CoH can carve out an appealing little niche for them.
2) Almost every pnp GM I knew was also leader/organizer of the community. You often played what he wanted around his schedule. He's also the type to gravitate into organizer/leader positions in online games. If HE wants to check out this game to experiment on this, he's more likely to influence others to do so also.
And... despite there being plenty of pnp GM's out there making their own content, those game developers kept cranking out modules for people that wanted something professionally done....
If this is done right, this won't mean the develo
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Someone call 911, something happened to Chase in mid-sentence!
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Maybe he said Candleja
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I've noticed a couple replys regarding my favorite part of this next update claiming "it's a lame exscuse for the developers to get the players to do their jobs for them."
I don't really see it that way but I can understand why some people think that.
Personally I see it as a way for me to tell my own story and let other players take a part in it.
We will be able to make our own cut scenes as well I think and I don't really see alot of that being used I do have one thing I'd like to show in a cut scene however that may not even be possible.
Anyway whatever this turns out to be I'll use it as an opertunity to have something to do. Even if it is devs makeing players do their jobs it's still new content and that's something really lacking exspecially villain side.
There are still zones on the hero side I've never even seen, my level 50 is still getting missions to this day. Villain side however my level 50 MMs have exausted all their contacts and there's nothing to do that I haven't allready done.
Even makeing new villains is a real pain because I do the same missions with every character, not alot of new content has come up to suprise me after 5 level 50 villains.
Creating story archs, doing story archs other players have made, I'll love this sence this will mean not haveing to wait for a new update to exsperiance new content. There will allways be new missions to exsplore.
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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion
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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.
[/ QUOTE ] Oh, but they did it with some of the NPCs. Like Sister, Infernal, and Synsnape speed, and we can have red enegry and elec powers .
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The NPCs have their own powersets. They can have, say, red energy blasts because they're not using the Energy Blast powerset that blasters use.
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I just had a terrible thought. What if the allowable mobs in your mission are restricted to the gladiators your toon has collected?
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That would mean you'd have to log in to a particular character before you could invent a mission. Granted, this is all speculation at this point, but the mission creation tool will probably be made available from the opening screen, after you log in and before you pick a server.
Why do I say that? These missions will not be server specific. If you make a mission, anyone who plays the game, regardless of server, will have access. Currently with the trading system, if someone puts up an enhancement for sale from say, the Triumph server, anyone in any other server will be able to see it almost in real time. I suspect a similar procedure will take place regarding missions. When you finish a mission, everyone in all the servers will see it show up on a list at about the same time, and will be able to start trying it out, regardless of which server you usually frequent.
So our mission design parameters won't be restricted to one particular toon, and therefore the Devs won't be able to limit our mission design to the badge list one of your toons develops. At least, that's my current hypothesis. Without more info, we're grabbing at straws currently.
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There's a list of features for the mission creator in the "Interesting Info" thread (the one about the recent survey). I wouldn't take it as gospel, of course, but it might hint at some of what we may see.
One thing that is on that list, though, relates to this discussion:
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Creators don't have access to high level content (environments, NPCs, etc.) until their own characters have encountered/defeated them in the main game.
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That may or may not end up being true, of course. If it does, though, I just wonder how they would restrict something like that if not by using badges or souveniers earned by individual characters.