Discussion: Issue 13: Architect


9thcircle

 

Posted

Pain Domination: I was just wondering how to make a Praetorian version of my uber Troll Empathy Defender(the much beloved Grimloche), now I know. As an aside, pistols empathey\corruptor would be...*salivating*...good. Shield Defender\Corruptor would be...interesting.

Pistols: Since I encountered the Malta, Ive wanted their pistol set. I can wait till I15, but no later, because then a very sternly worded note of reprimand will be mailed to Positron (with a blank check) to underscore my disappointment and encourage them to fix the problem.

Mission Architect: Issue concerning farmers and powerlevelers noted, and understood. Not concerned about the "xp" personally. Ive heard of some novel uses for this including:SG applicant trials to test player ability\suitability.
PITA Mob gauntlets to test\improve a toon's build (can we say Rikti Magus? good, I knew you could). "Danger rooms" for practicing team work. -Just to name a few. Im glad to hear the devs will be sampling the player generated content and giving props for the good stuff. Expect to see some good Troll content in the list of the elite (there might be some bias here but really, Trolls are the best at whatever they do anyways so bias quotient is irrelevant..*shrug*). I do expect to see some folks try to exploit this, but thats the norm. Personal toons used as signature characters seems a no brainer as a feature, but then not everyone has my perfect vision (heh).

Oh...maybe I can do that Underwater mission arc concept Ive had in my head for like....a year.


Pinnacle: Sgt. Major - L50 ARDevicesElec Blaster ,Sgt. Medic - L50 IllusionEmpathy Controller, PootyButt - L50 DarkDP Defender Skunk
Virtue: Rockford Pennington - L50 StoneSS Tank, L50 WPSS Tank, L40 ElecDM Tank, L37 DADM Tank, L50 EmpRad Def, Zoom Jr - L50 FireDev Blaster

 

Posted

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Interesting Info thread, eh?


Sounds like a RickRoll to me, lol

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Yep, because when you mouse over the link (here it is again -- "Interesting Info Thread" ), at the bottom of your browser it says it takes you to a YouTube video instead of a thread on these forums that's been viewed over 20,000 times, right?

If you haven't seen that thread then I guess you just don't come to the forums very often...


 

Posted

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I thought the mission creator was already available? did i misread?

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What in the world would give you the idea that it was already available? Until Tuesday we didn't even know for sure it would be available in Issue 13...


 

Posted

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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...umber=11778121


...the first line said it? maybe i jumped the gun?

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You mean this?

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I wanted to be the first to let you all know that the primary feature list for Issue 13: Architect is now live!

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He's not saying "Issue 13: Architect" is now live. He's saying the "primary feature list for Issue 13: Architect" is. IOW, the feature list is finally released.

Yes, it is odd wording and I hadn't noticed it before, but no, he's not saying Issue 13 is live.


 

Posted

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Pain domination..... Notice how dominators are not included in the formula.

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Are you nuts?

dominators receive the power set, masterminds receive a weaker version (more than likely), and no other AT receives it.

Dominators are definately in THIS formula.

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No, they don't. Reread the post, it's only for Corruptors and Masterminds.


 

Posted

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So far my only issue is with the name of the new powerset: "Pain Domination". You hear that name and immediately think it's for Dominators, but it's only for Corruptors and Masterminds. This set needs a better name. Won't know what's appropriate until the powers themselves are listed, but some initial suggestions: Antipathy, Sadism, Torture, Cruelty, Agony.

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Pain Corruption?


 

Posted

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So far my only issue is with the name of the new powerset: "Pain Domination". You hear that name and immediately think it's for Dominators, but it's only for Corruptors and Masterminds. This set needs a better name. Won't know what's appropriate until the powers themselves are listed, but some initial suggestions: Antipathy, Sadism, Torture, Cruelty, Agony.

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Pain Corruption?

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Pains Perfection?


 

Posted

OK, let's be honest here, people. There's been a lot of immature response to this.

First, hero content vs villain content: Heroes have a lot more. It's a well-known and loudly-complained-about issue. Over twice the zones, with a *lot* more in the way of content. And there's NO. SUCH. THING. as an unstoppable PvP build. (Ask my roommate's "unstoppable" crab, which got mudholed by my "lolscrapper" 4 times out of 5. And I'm not a PvPr except by badge-lust and SG badge-need.) And sure, right now there's more active blue than red at any given moment... as was pointed out before, that's because people get tired of picking between arcs they've run too many times, shared content that smacks of heroism, or the same old paper missions. I've done stuff in every zone as my 50 heros... but it took a lot of extra time to really visit every single zone. My red 50? More paper grinding than I care to think about, once all the contacts dried up.

Mission creator: Likely it's going to be a bit overhyped out the gate, and will get better. Until we can actually see, touch, feel, and love it? We won't know just how overwhelming (or underwhelming) the final answer is. Trust to the devs to not let us down, expect the worst and hope for the best... whatever it takes to get you through to I13 launch. I do have one favor to ask the devs, given some of the people I've seen around the game... built-in spell checkers? Please? That or give me the power to highly censor a mission's text. Some people type like to type with their foreheads (or haven't reached third-level spelling proficiency, take your pick), and as much fun as their maps might be, reading 500 spelling errors in a single sentence will ruin it quickly. It's one thing to catch the occasional whoopsie from the mission devs... it's quite another to wade through an ocean of them on player-created content.

New powersets: Shields sound decent, if not overwhelming... I'm looking forward to trying it out as an alternative to my preferred /SR scrap build. As for pistols... I'd love it, I admit, but beating it into the ground isn't gonna make the devs love us more or pull it outta their tophats like a fluffy white bunny. It'll come when it'll come, and harassing them won't make it happen sooner. (If I was a dev, I'd push it back a couple issues for the harassment. Makes you wonder... ^.~) And yes, by the love of all that's holy, let's just start calling it /Pain (or whatever) now and leave the dom part to the villains that own it by AT. I see too many people going "omgz we needz moar pain quik luk 4 domz". (I've teamed with people that type like that. If you haven't, feel blessed.) And yes, to reiterate, it is for CORRS and MMS ONLY. NOT FOR DOMS. If you're confused by the name and/or my statement that pain domination is not for dominators, please go reread the OP, s'il vous plait.

Merits: If you're a casual player, enjoy the ability to invest your rare playtime in something real. If you're a hardcore, invest your constant playtime in fully godslotted in a week. [And if you're a hardcore player, be polite and realize not everyone has their umbilical cord surgically attached to their computer. Just because you do (and just because I do)...] And whatever happens, PLEASE let this stabilize (if not normalize) BM/WW. I don't know about all servers, but Champ's WW looks like a indecisive suicide half the time, going between rock-bottom and sky-high on all but the rarest IOs. (I'm sorry, when an ancient bone goes for 100 inf one minute, and 20k-30k three minutes later, then back to 1k about 5 minutes after that... there's an issue, and it's not with the system.)

Day jobs: Sure, the badge ([censored]? hunter?) in me is rubbing its grimy little hands together gleefully, but my alts are gonna get a severe workout trying to hunt these all down. (Or at least earn them all.) But hey, more badges, more accolades and temp powers, more fun to be had. Let's do it. (As long as the badges/accolades are permanent, even if the boosts they represent aren't.)

PPPSpecs: I haven't personally had an issue here, so I'll move on. Kudos on what apparently, from the non-buzz, amounts to a bug fix? I love Ghost Widow, and all my villains shall follow suit, so no complaints here regardless.

Kheldians: I agree, they've been given the short end of the stick (especially given the versitility of VEATs with little that I've seen, PvEwise, of detraction aside from weaker soloability pre-forcespec). Perhaps a bit of buffing, or added soloability, might be in order for the HEATs? I love my Kheldians dearly, but it's a bit tricky to be soloing a mission and get virtually one-shotted due to a surprise Void around the corner. Price of levelling a Kheldian, but they're about par against regular mobs, so it feels a bit lopsided, having levelled both a good bit.

Bases: People are talking about this. Sure, I run two groups (one red and one blue), and I'd love to see lots and lots of pretty upgrades. (Someone suggested multilevel bases, I think I saw. I'd like to second that, and with a fervor.) If it happens, I'll be in even more map-making glee and less reachable for team invites... if it doesn't, I'll dry my eyes with an even more impressive story arc.

Finally, to end my rants: A lot of people are demanding a lot of things that they feel have been "overlooked" or "forgotten". (And jokes aside, some people seem to be in the "omg i kan quite and than u be sry u didnt do whut i wnt" mindset.) Reminder: the fabled words "And more..." were used at the end. This is not a complete list, or at least not necessarily so. Promising you'll quit won't make the devs magically pull your desired project (to abuse my earlier metaphor) from their battered old tophats. If it's in the works, it'll be announced. If they're holding it back (as was said by a red-name) in the hopes they might... MIGHT... be able to push it through, and they do, awesome. If they can't, maybe it'll hit I14. If not, I15 perhaps... or 16 won't be all that far down the road for some of you Betas.

Either way, I'll be occupied and entertained, and that's what I'm paying $10ish a month for, right? Right. (Yes, I believe in lump-sum fees. Why not? I'll still be playing when the next batch of time runs out... and the next... and the next...)

[Please note: The above is not intended as a flame, argument, or anything other than well-placed constructive criticism. And anyone who hates the devs for this update is constructively advised to be quiet and enjoy the *free* update, and wait a few months for the next *free* update when their ideas might (gasp!) be implemented.]

[Please also note: Yes, I'm extremely long-winded. But I get the point across, ne? XD]


 

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Where are the NEW ZONES for VILLAINS?
Gosh where is the New Content for Villains?


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Where are the NEW ZONES for HEROES?
Gosh where is the New Content for Heroes?

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Heroes don't really need any new zones. Like I said before on hero side, there are still zones and contacts I have never seen or spoken to in 4 years of playing this game.

Villains side, I've exsperienced everything... 5 times. Villains are the ones lacking in the content department.

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And oddly enough... the number of villan players is much smaller than hero players.

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In part because they have less content. Actually, the villain population jumped significantly when VEATs were added.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Peopel always bring this up, but when playing on Virtue or Freedom, I don't see a difference in populations. I never have trouble finding people at any level on either side at any time of day or night. The redside market had really taken off also. I have a feeling it is not as huge of a difference as it once was.


 

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Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?

The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"

If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.

Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!

Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!



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No thanks. Unless this is a SKIPPABLE option, no no no thanks. Don't force me into PvP.

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Nope, absolutely not, and I apologize if my post implied that I would EVER advocate forcing ANYBODY into ANY in-game situation to acquire items (like badges or re-specs) that should be available across the board.

Howver, since there are so many items/badges which are already available only through PvP venues, I merely suggest this option (and it's ONLY a suggestion) as an example of how to make PvP "worth" doing.

I would expect the original system would remain in place, definitely.

Check my previous posts, and you will see I do not advocate any sort of limitation on the paying customers' access to playing the way they want to play.

Rather, I am an advocate of the polar-opposite reverse.

To paraphrase a famous excahnge:

"How can we make [the game] better for you, the players?"

"Laissez-faire!" ("Leave us alone!")

In plain English: "If the only way we can win the game is by playing it in a dictated way, why bother to play it at all?"



Dasher


HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."

 

Posted

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Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?

The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"

If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.

Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!

Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!



[/ QUOTE ]


No thanks. Unless this is a SKIPPABLE option, no no no thanks. Don't force me into PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, absolutely not, and I apologize if my post implied that I would EVER advocate forcing ANYBODY into ANY in-game situation to acquire items (like badges or re-specs) that should be available across the board.

Howver, since there are so many items/badges which are already available only through PvP venues, I merely suggest this option (and it's ONLY a suggestion) as an example of how to make PvP "worth" doing.

I would expect the original system would remain in place, definitely.

Check my previous posts, and you will see I do not advocate any sort of limitation on the paying customers' access to playing the way they want to play.

Rather, I am an advocate of the polar-opposite reverse.

To paraphrase a famous excahnge:

"How can we make [the game] better for you, the players?"

"Laissez-faire!" ("Leave us alone!")

In plain English: "If the only way we can win the game is by playing it in a dictated way, why bother to play it at all?"



Dasher

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Well in that case, I can absolutely get behind this idea. More options to satisfy both the PvE and PvP camps is always good IMHO.


 

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some cool stuff but i'm a little upset at the idea of nerfed rewards on the custom missions.

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They have to.. i mean you could make a repeatable mission arch w a glowie at dor to get 2 minute end of mission xp forever.. or create custom farm missions... ect ect... unless they nerf the drops/xp... it will be to easy to take advantage of.


 

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I love in Posi's letter how he talks about 'rewards' for the missions created by the users. How it was bantered back and forth in the office with raised voices. I have a nagging suspicion this means no xp/influence/etc for these missions in which case. Crappy system and count me out. Not gonna bust my butt to create tons of missions that grant absolutely no reward.

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Then you missed the entire point of the mission creator.

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Oh I got the point. I got it a long time ago. This is a great way for the devs to have the players create content for them so that they don't have to. We already provide free Q&A services when we Beta test the issues. Now they want us to be quasi-content creators. Then if were lucky enough to be sprinkled with the blessings of 'Devs Choice' then our mission will give rewards. Great.

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Nor are we surprised, those of us who have been here since CoH beta or shortly thereafter.

Some of the most intriguing content promises have disappeared as vaporware (Faultline Trial, Cathedral of Pain Trial) or resulted in the most horrendous design gaffes (Travel Power Suppression, Enhancement Diversification, sgregtaed hero/villain powersets, Stalkers), with all customer complaints being responded to by the Devs with the same dismissive expressed by the now-gone (and-unlamented) CuppaJo's reply to howls of customer fury over Travel Power Suppression, as she perfectly summed up just how much she learned in Customer Service 101: "They [the Devs] are happy with the way it works and there are no plans to change it."

So now, when a mission is designed, approved, voted into existence by the players and found wanting by subsequent events, we can look forward to the Devs being able to dodge criticism for it and the players attacking each other for the perceived faults.

There are two other things you can also look forward to, at least if I ever get any of my missions into public availability:

1. When they suck (and some of them no doubt will, they can't all be gems) I will take full responsibility for doing a crappy job and apologize to anyone who was honestly inconvenienced by them. Note that I will NOT apologize if they are too tough or if players don't "like" them. Errors are accountable, taste is not.

and

2. If I can fix them, I will, and if I can't, I'll yank them or warn everyone off them and refer players to Point 1.

Two things I can be absolutely sure of...

If the friends in my SG's and Coalitions play them and say they're not good (or outright bad), I can spare myself the embarassment of making them publicly accessible and bury them in the backyard in the dark of a moonless night.

If that same group says they are good (or even, dare I hope, worthy of repeated play!), then whatever the Dev's think of them won't amount to a fart in a whirlwind in my assessment of own creation.

And those are those only criteria any of YOU out there should listen to, as well.

The Dev's opinion has never mattered to me before, and there is no reason to start worrying about it now.

Dasher (Superspeedster FIRST, everything else second)


HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."

 

Posted

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In regards to EarthWyrm, I play on the Freedom Server.

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Irrelevant. You were (or at least, seemed to be) trying to buy HOs on the market, and suggested that there weren't any available. I posted that Virtue was still running raids regularly, and since the market is cross-server, anything that is awarded on Virtue and put on the market will be available to someone on Freedom.

Not being able to find raids is a different issue than what I was responding to.

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(This is something simular to the badge requirements for accessing Katie and Lord Recluse.)

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Minor nit-pick, but there is no badge requirement for accessing Katie. You complete a story arc, but it's not a badge-awarding arc.


My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

 

Posted

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some cool stuff but i'm a little upset at the idea of nerfed rewards on the custom missions.

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They have to.. i mean you could make a repeatable mission arch w a glowie at dor to get 2 minute end of mission xp forever.. or create custom farm missions... ect ect... unless they nerf the drops/xp... it will be to easy to take advantage of.

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Thing is, even then, we don't know to what degree they "nerfed" it. (Still feels odd, referring to something as "nerfed" when it doesn't even exist yet. At least nowhere I can see it.) And knowing NCNC, they probably are planning on putting some form of flag in, so that if a mission is completed is way too little time, they can have a dev (or have a special QA taskforce, either employee or -- gasp! -- player volunteers) look at it and make sure it's not just a quick-cash map. (Possibly with the punishment of losing your mapmaking privileges suspended/revoked if you make them habitually, and certainly causing the map in question to be flagged for deletion.)

I'm sure the devs have this idea well in hand... or possibly even built something into the editor to require at least a token force to be placed to prevent easy glowie farming?


 

Posted

<OT> What the hell is the tiny white text on your avatar, Jasani? Even zooming in on the image I can't read it because it's been shrunk down too far. Zooming in only ends up with pixeled gunk that was once letters.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

<OT> "We solemnly swear we are up to no good"... not that it's entirely apropos of my posts here, but eh. It's a HP reference, not too surprising given the icon itself.


 

Posted

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Where are the NEW ZONES for VILLAINS?
Gosh where is the New Content for Villains?


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Where are the NEW ZONES for HEROES?
Gosh where is the New Content for Heroes?

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Heroes don't really need any new zones. Like I said before on hero side, there are still zones and contacts I have never seen or spoken to in 4 years of playing this game.

Villains side, I've exsperienced everything... 5 times. Villains are the ones lacking in the content department.

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And oddly enough... the number of villan players is much smaller than hero players.

So the devs could spend their time creating more content for the smaller segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for the larger segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for both segments simultaneously...

gosh... I wonder what they'll do...??

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Yes because they totally didn't add any Red side only content in Issue 12, nope none at all.

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O nobody is saying they didnt give us VEATs that we had to wait 2 years for. Then tell us they are the same minions we have been beating up for the last 2 years. But the reason why we got them is cause of how story driven they are well they fit to the story line. Yet the story conent sucks bad and has a total lack there of. hardly any arcs, missions, and no SF ot trial to go along with. Villians do lack horrably in the quanity of story content. Not to mention the qaulity of most of it aint that great to be honest. The game its self is awsome but lacking in mission type content


 

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OK, let's be honest here, people. There's been a lot of immature response to this.

First, hero content vs villain content: Heroes have a lot more. It's a well-known and loudly-complained-about issue. Over twice the zones, with a *lot* more in the way of content. And there's NO. SUCH. THING. as an unstoppable PvP build. (Ask my roommate's "unstoppable" crab, which got mudholed by my "lolscrapper" 4 times out of 5. And I'm not a PvPr except by badge-lust and SG badge-need.)

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The heroes have more zones, but they really don't have all that much more content. Volume, yes... mass, no.

To give credit where it's due, the villain zones are more efficiently designed than the hero zones (obviating the need for so many "hazard" zones), with more "depth" reflected in the wider variety of mission types.

Hero zone missions still labor under a cookie-cutter motif: Fight mobs, click glowie, exit. The Faathim the Kind TF has about a dozen missions consisting of cave-clearances and simultaneous glowie clicking. Ho-freaking-hum!

Villain missions overall, building on two years' experience and the acquisition of talented scenario designers (tip-o-the-mask to Shane Hensley, to name but one), enjoy a far superior depth of detail, scope and feel than the vast majority of hero content.

As for "unstoppable" PvP AT's, the problem is not that any one type is over- or under-powered (although several are, and undeniably so), but that there are a few types which can ONLY be countered by other specific types.

This would be bad enough if good, solid, tactical play was actually valid in PvP combat, but it's not; an optimal build with the sort of Enhancements available to power-builders will trump a good, solid, character-driven design every time.

The very fact that players can field builds which are optimized specifically for PvP is a glaring flaw in the design system and its vulnerability to abuse.

Burning a music mix CD does NOT make one a musician; building a perfect Yu-Gi-Oh deck does NOT make one a "strategist", nor does copying a PvP-specific AT from a website and filling it with purple Enhancement sets make one a better player than the people with ATs that Uber-Build is targeted to destroy.

It just makes them a better plagiarist.

Remember: Games are like any other interpersonal relationship - sports, war, work - they do not build character, but they do reveal it.

Dasher


HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."

 

Posted

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Where are the NEW ZONES for VILLAINS?
Gosh where is the New Content for Villains?


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Where are the NEW ZONES for HEROES?
Gosh where is the New Content for Heroes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Heroes don't really need any new zones. Like I said before on hero side, there are still zones and contacts I have never seen or spoken to in 4 years of playing this game.

Villains side, I've exsperienced everything... 5 times. Villains are the ones lacking in the content department.

[/ QUOTE ]

And oddly enough... the number of villan players is much smaller than hero players.

So the devs could spend their time creating more content for the smaller segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for the larger segment of the player base... or they could spend their time creating content for both segments simultaneously...

gosh... I wonder what they'll do...??

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Yes because they totally didn't add any Red side only content in Issue 12, nope none at all.

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O nobody is saying they didnt give us VEATs that we had to wait 2 years for. Then tell us they are the same minions we have been beating up for the last 2 years. But the reason why we got them is cause of how story driven they are well they fit to the story line. Yet the story conent sucks bad and has a total lack there of. hardly any arcs, missions, and no SF ot trial to go along with. Villians do lack horrably in the quanity of story content. Not to mention the qaulity of most of it aint that great to be honest. The game its self is awsome but lacking in mission type content

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Hmmm. I'm having a blast with my VEAT, and find there is a glut of content, and stuff I passed by. Thank goodness for Ouro so I can go back and do more arcs...


 

Posted

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<OT> "We solemnly swear we are up to no good"... not that it's entirely apropos of my posts here, but eh. It's a HP reference, not too surprising given the icon itself.

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I know the reference. Just couldn't read it because of the text being distorted by the shrinking of the image. The goth-ified HP gang is a bit mind-breaking, too.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

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O nobody is saying they didnt give us VEATs that we had to wait 2 years for. Then tell us they are the same minions we have been beating up for the last 2 years. But the reason why we got them is cause of how story driven they are well they fit to the story line.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Story driven" is and always has been the whole point of epic archetypes.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint