Discussion: Issue 13: Architect
By
9thcircle,
Posted on: 2008-08-26 09:40 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night?
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Automan.
"Cursor! The Auto-coptor!"
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Thought it was something like that. Wasn't sure, though. 
I remember most the car that made the 90 degree turns, nearly killing the human passanger every time. ><
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I don't think we need a Manimal remake.
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Good god, someone else actually remembers that show? O.O
Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night? ( Something to do with the amount of power needed to run and less people using electricity at night ) Can't recall the name of the show for the life of me.
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I think you are thinking of Max Headrum, dont know if i spelled that right or not. He wuld some times say the same word three or fore times while his head twitched to the side. Think he did Pepsi comershal to.
Hm.
More things for villains... okay.
More stuff for Stalkers... oy vey!!!
Okay, the problem with Stalkers and villains in general is simply that when they created them, the Devs proceeded from the flawed assumption that "alignments" were necessary, or even valid, followed by poor interpretation of Arena data gleaned from pitting heroes against heroes.
What came out of this was a mismatched mess where villains dominate PvP and, after a couple of years of teething issues, are beginning to do the same in PvE.
Stalkers are still fairly weak in PvE, but they are so grossly overpowered in PvP as to be pointless to fight unless you are running a purpose-built PvP hero designed to deal withe them. And Night Widows are fast catching up with them as being even worse.
Seriously, has ANYONE tried taking a Warshade or Peacebringer into Recluse' Victory? If so, have you done even close to as well as an Arachnos Soldier or Widow? Do we even need to hear the answer?
One of the saddest limitations this puts on the game is the lack of enthusiasm for PvP among regular players. There is simply no compelling reason for participating in PvP.
Yes, there are badges for those suffering from OCD. There is the "I-got-my-butt-kicked-by-the-school-bully-so-THIS-will-make-me-feel-better" mentality (or lack thereof), there's the just plain obnoxious twit aspect (AKA "I-AM-the-school-bully"), there are even some base modifications like the Fusion Generator which can only be had through PvP victories, but who needs it? Our base is overpowered as it is, and we're running a secured area Vault for the Cathedral of Pain/Item of Power vaporware. (See? We DO have a kind of faith in the Devs.)
Here's an example of one way to make PvP truly worthwhile:
Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?
The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"
If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.
Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!
Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!
Now you have a PvP-related reward - the Fusion Generator - that is earned by actually doing something that is relevant to the award, and which makes the PvP logical, instead of a mind-numbing progression of pointless ganks, duels, and "can-you-top-this" CoX versions of a Yu-Gi-Oh deck-building exercise, or even instead of a mechanistic "defeat-the-AI" key-tapping session.
The fact is, unless you are of the very limited imagination mindset that thinks perfect building is the same as good play (or that mixing music on an iPod is the same as being a "musician"), then PvP holds no allure for you. It is, in fact, an annoyance, if not an outright detriment, to your enjoyment of the game.
All that having been said, the Issue 13: Architect expansion promises to lay the groundwork for the most important - and long-needed - change to CoX since its inception. With the ability to create our own missions, we can finally generate missions that will ignore the artificial limitations imposed by the "hero/villain" concept.
Because, let's face it, a Corruptor who jumps into the middle of a trio of Spines scrappers to heal a dying Brute is doing something pretty heroic, and a Blaster who waits until NPCs have clipped a Dominator down to 25% health before plastering him with a snipe is a villain no matter what he calls himself.
Comes now the promise of an eventual end to all that silliness:
Player-generated Co-Op missions.
For my part, I don't intend to design any missions that are NOT co-op missions, in every possible setting where I can place them. If that means everything I make will be in Cimerora or the Rikti War Zone, then yippee-skippee, dust off your Level 35's-and-highers, folks, and come on down. I promise everyone will have a good time.
The fact is, a nice guy is a nice guy, and a jerk is a jerk, no matter what they say they are playing. By their actions, ye shall know them, and I can't wait to start playing all my characters the way I have envisioned them from the start, the way the very best characters have always been realized: As flawed, imperfect people with astonishing gifts that, as in any good game, do not develop their character, but reveal it.
Let the Dawn of the New Age begin, can ya give me a WOO-HOO, brothers and sisters?
Dasher
HELP SAVE THIS GAME!
If we can save this game, I promise I will never complain about Travel Power Suppression again! You have my word on it!
"The customer is always right."
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Yesterday, my wife and I played the Level 24 Respec Trial for Heroes with a very good pick-up group. Now, that is always a fun battle, but how much more exciting would it have been if there was a team of opposing players trying to destroy the reactor while we were trying to save it?
The Trial proceeds normally from start up until the Reactor room is entered, then an announcement goes out over the Zone Alerts: "Alert! A team of (number) super-powered (heroes/villains) is attempting to (repair/destroy) the Terra Volta Reactor! A super-powered response is urgently needed! Teams have five minutes to access the mission!"
If your team is the same size as the one in the Reactor Room, you can get there through any train/ferry/helicopter, first-come, first-served. Difference in team sizes can be compensated by NPC reinforcements and/or auto-levelling.
Success/failure in the mission ENDS the Trial with no rewards!
Thwarting the opposing player's mission builds credit toward an SG badge that grants plans for... the Fusion Generator!
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No thanks. Unless this is a SKIPPABLE option, no no no thanks. Don't force me into PvP.
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Rial_Vestro thanks for the feedback.
Update: I should have been clearer on the costume selection. The costume dialog I was refering to is the one you get showing you your current costume slots you already have, not so much creating a new one (ala 'costumes' from the menu).
I guess I suggested limiting the player NPC powers because no matter how involved the story is, it is still about the players experience in the game and what they can do, not the achievements of the NPCs in the mission.
It also provides a simpler solution that hopefully has a better chance of seeing the light of day! (*smiles at Devs*)
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OK I understand the limitation of NPC powers to some exstent but I still don't think they should be limited to ONLY useing 1 Defencive and 1 Offencive power. First off all depending on what the character is they may not have any of one and all of the other. Maybe limit them to 1/4 of your total powers so you could choose 1 power from each pool and you would have a wider selection of your Primary and Secondary to choose from.
Allso exsclude any Temp Powers, Veteran Powers, or Accolades your character has from being used by your NPC. Only Primary, Secondary, Inherent, and Pool* powers are allowed.
*I'm includeing Archillary/Patron when I'm talking about Pool Powers. They are Epic Pool Powers.
i just hope i can make a mission where my character is the boss at the end. that would be soooo freak'n cool.
Come fight Syni'Star and his vast army of undead...muawahahahaha!!!
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I don't think we need a Manimal remake.
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Good god, someone else actually remembers that show? O.O
Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night? ( Something to do with the amount of power needed to run and less people using electricity at night ) Can't recall the name of the show for the life of me.
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I think you are thinking of Max Headrum, dont know if i spelled that right or not. He wuld some times say the same word three or fore times while his head twitched to the side. Think he did Pepsi comershal to.
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No, Weird Science up there had it right: Automan. Though, I do remember Max Headroom, too. It was Coke commercials that he did. And the show was spun off from the character in the commercials. ><
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Stalkers are still fairly weak in PvE
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I -seriously- disagree. My experience with them since the recent buffs put them at -least- on par with Scrappers in PvP. What they may lack in HP and sustained DPS they MORE than make up for in burst DPS. Throw in a little nice CC ( Placate ), and their weaknesses are well covered.
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YAY! New Costume sets! I don't mind forking over 10 bucks for that, but I'm not so sure about giving 5 bucks for a temporary jetpack, even if it is for 30 days. That sounds buju. I'm not trying to sound ungrateful before any of you retaliate, just stating that they should just add it to the Cyborg costume set and increase to 15 dollars but make the pack on a permenant status. I'd still fork over that amount assuming that the costume set is awesome.
Evil prevails when good men fail to act.
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YAY! New Costume sets! I don't mind forking over 10 bucks for that, but I'm not so sure about giving 5 bucks for a temporary jetpack, even if it is for 30 days.
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Then don't fork over $5 for a temporary jetpack. Simple, huh? Not like they offer any huge advantage. Run the first mayhem/safeguard for a jetpack that'll last you well past level 14 if you're not stupid about how you use it. Best part: It's free.
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Day Jobs: My question about this is, what if you don't log off in the same place every day? Or better yet, what about when you loose conection to the game and you don't actully have controll over where you loged off at? How can a player maintain his or her day job? It kinda sounds like we're forced to log off in sertain areas if we want to maintain a spicific job and that's NOT something I'm looking forward to.
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From my reading, you get themed credit toward in-game benefits based on where your character is when they're not being actively played. If you want to maintain a fixed 'day job' for the character, you'll need to take them back to the same spot -- or at least the same-themed spot -- before you log out. I expect, for example, that any university would give you the same benefit.
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That wasn't exactly what I asked but you're close. You did address one of my issues that I'd need to log off in the same themed area in order to maintain that job.
However you didn't really address my other consern. Getting dissconnected and ending up in a job I didn't even want. This is actully more of a concern than having to log off in a spicific place.
As an added note, what about thoughs rare glitches where you log off in a zone like St. Martial and log on inside the casino even though you were nowhere near the caseno when you loged off. Are you going to get credit for the place you actully loged off at and/or credit as a Black Jack Dealer?
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New Invention Origin Sets: Have not liked Inventions. It looked good on paper but have more of a hassle than I care to deal with.
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I suspect that they're filling out some of the gaps in the sets -- for example, there are no Healing sets that give a bonus to Accuracy, even though several of the heal powers require that you hit a target to get the heal. Whether or not you use them is a personal choice; if you don't, that gives you more things you can sell on the market to get influence/infamy.
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Yeah that's all I ever do with my recipies is sell them. I tried to use them at one point but I discovered a couple flaws in the design.
1. IOs never exspire. This looked great on paper but that's because I thought that ment they were going to level up with you. I discovered it only means you'll get the same benifit the entire time you have them so you still end up haveing to replace them even though they don't exspire.
The only thing that makes enhancements that don't exspire any good is the idea that you never have to worry about them. Stick them in and forget about them but considering you'd be severly hindering yourself if you were useing a level 15 IO at level 50 this is not actully the case.
2. The other problem I've found is the Bonuses that haveing multiple powers from the same set gives. The problem I have with this is if you want the bonus you have to have 1 of each enhancement from the same set in the same power. I had multiple of the same enhancement from a set and got no bonus from them, and I had multiple enhancements from the same set in two different powers and got no bonus from them.
3. Alot of people seem to be under the impression that IOs are stronger than HOs but they actully seem to be weaker than SOs. I was looking at one of percentages as I replaced an SO of the same type and level with an IO and the number actully went down about 10%.
For all these reasons I've found it easier to just ignore them. I'm sure the set bonuses would make up for the loss in the percentage but the set bonuses aren't even worth it for me if I can only access them by placeing the entire set into a single power.
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a Patron Power Respec: This is an AWSOME thing. Now Villains will be able to change their Patron powers like Heroes are able to change their Archillary powers.
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It would be awesome if the patron pools were buffed to where they were comparable to the hero Ancillary power pools, and even more awesome if heroes got a set of pools similar to the villan Patron pools whle villains got non-patron Ancillary pools like the heroes, but adding a bunch of power pools, plus the story arcs for the hero Patron pools, is a lot of work, particularly with the move to the left coast and integrating new people into the development team. I really don't see that happening before the following issue at the earliest... but I can hope.
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I sort of half agree with you but it doesn't really matter. We're getting a Patron Respec which makes up for the one complaint I had about Patron Powers in the first Place, we're no longer locked into our powers. Heroes were never locked into their powers so it was unfair that the villains had to be.
Going to play devils advocate with the day jobs feature. I'm not saying its good, or bad - more giving food for thought.
One downside to characters earning skills offline can be looked at by what Eve Online does. Their skill system is entirely based on real world time, not game time. Their downside is it can be elitist at times - if you don't have the skill points, you don't play with the big boys. Since it is real world time based, there is practically no way to catch up with characters that are around since the beginning of the game.
Also it leads to character and account sales being more common - which in Eve is actually encouraged by the company since they have a sponsored way to trade characters instead of ebay.
Finally, it makes your account significantly more interesting to account hackers and ebay sellers. There is now something in the game that can't be obtained by powerleveling and farming. The way to get that asset quickly, is to target characters that are older. Keyloggers and account hacks could become wider problems in CoH to nab accounts that have longer skill trained characters. Eve has a SEVERE problem with those tools.
Now likely those problems will be minimal compared to Eve. Or even nonexistant. Just something to be aware of though.
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Going to play devils advocate with the day jobs feature. I'm not saying its good, or bad - more giving food for thought.
One downside to characters earning skills offline can be looked at by what Eve Online does. Their skill system is entirely based on real world time, not game time. Their downside is it can be elitist at times - if you don't have the skill points, you don't play with the big boys. Since it is real world time based, there is practically no way to catch up with characters that are around since the beginning of the game.
Also it leads to character and account sales being more common - which in Eve is actually encouraged by the company since they have a sponsored way to trade characters instead of ebay.
Finally, it makes your account significantly more interesting to account hackers and ebay sellers. There is now something in the game that can't be obtained by powerleveling and farming. The way to get that asset quickly, is to target characters that are older. Keyloggers and account hacks could become wider problems in CoH to nab accounts that have longer skill trained characters. Eve has a SEVERE problem with those tools.
Now likely those problems will be minimal compared to Eve. Or even nonexistant. Just something to be aware of though.
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There is another way to catch up to other players allthough it's not verry practicle. Sence the skills are earned while offline the key is not to log on but why would anyone want to pay for an account they're not going to log onto. (I am of course assumeing that the time spent offline would not be applied to accounts that aren't being paid for.)
However if you do actully get credit for your offline character even if your account is non active than people with multiple accounts could simply stop paying for one account to get some offline credit while they play a second account then switch them the next month.
Come to think of it, sence everyone will begine the update offline do we get credit for that offline time between launch and when we actully sign in for the first time? And if so are we going to get some warning so we can log off in an appropriate place the night before the update?
I'm sure eventually they'll come out with a list of locations and the jobs tied to them.
I wander how I can enlist myself as an actor? Movie theater would probly just be that you work in the ticket office at the theater or some other job there. I've noticed there are actully signs in some areas for a live theater in Paragon City. If I could log off there that would put me into my real life day job. lol
Can't remember exactly where that live theater is but I belive it's in Atlas Park.
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering?
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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I wander how I can enlist myself as an actor? Movie theater would probly just be that you work in the ticket office at the theater or some other job there. I've noticed there are actully signs in some areas for a live theater in Paragon City. If I could log off there that would put me into my real life day job. lol
Can't remember exactly where that live theater is but I belive it's in Atlas Park.
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There is an outdoor theater in Perez by the lake.
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Yeah that's all I ever do with my recipies is sell them. I tried to use them at one point but I discovered a couple flaws in the design.
1. IOs never exspire. This looked great on paper but that's because I thought that ment they were going to level up with you. I discovered it only means you'll get the same benifit the entire time you have them so you still end up haveing to replace them even though they don't exspire.
The only thing that makes enhancements that don't exspire any good is the idea that you never have to worry about them. Stick them in and forget about them but considering you'd be severly hindering yourself if you were useing a level 15 IO at level 50 this is not actully the case.
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So, here's the deal with IOs. Level 15 common IOs are better than DOs of any level. A +3 damage DO gives 19.16% enhancement, a level 15 IO gives 19.2%. That's only slightly better, but that DO will decay to 16.66% at even level, and lower when yellow. So, if you were going to slot a DO, slot a level 15 IO instead and not only will it be better, but it will never go yellow or red. This also saves you money because you don't have to buy new enhancements at level 17.
Once you hit level 22, replace these enhancements with SOs as usual, because you can't get common IOs that have more benefit (level 25 Common IOs are equal to -1 SOs, so you might as well slot SOs instead).
At level 27, you can slot level 30 IOs. Level 30 IOs are equivalent to +1 SOs, and they never expire. If you were going to slot SOs, slot level 30 IOs instead and you get the benefit of +1 SOs all the way to 50 without ever having to replace them.
It's true that 35, 40, 45, and 50 IOs are better than level 30 IOs, but if you were going to slot SOs anyway, at least save the money and hassle of replacing them every 5 levels.
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2. The other problem I've found is the Bonuses that haveing multiple powers from the same set gives. The problem I have with this is if you want the bonus you have to have 1 of each enhancement from the same set in the same power. I had multiple of the same enhancement from a set and got no bonus from them, and I had multiple enhancements from the same set in two different powers and got no bonus from them.
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Yeah, this is intentional. You have to slot the sets in the same power. If you didn't, you wouldn't be able to have more than one copy of the same set, which is one of the ways to get the most out of IO sets. For example, 5 sets of Crushing Impact will give you a 35% accuracy bonus and a 25% recharge bonus on all of your powers, not just the attacks you slotted them in, along with a couple of other lesser bonuses.
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3. Alot of people seem to be under the impression that IOs are stronger than HOs but they actully seem to be weaker than SOs. I was looking at one of percentages as I replaced an SO of the same type and level with an IO and the number actully went down about 10%.
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Level 35+ IOs are universally better than SOs, you cannot get higher enhancement values from SOs than from level 35+ IOs. Level 30 IOs are equal to +1 SOs.
The multi-value enhancements do have lower values, but they give more of a bonus spread among the attributes they enhance. For example, a level 50 Acc/Dam/Rech enhancement gives a 21.2% bonus to each attribute. That's lower than an SO, yes, but with one enhancement, you are enhancing three attributes for a net bonus of 63.6%. To use Crushing Impact as an example again, a level 50 set gives you a total of:
Accuracy: 68.9%
Damage: 101.5% (143.1% before ED)
Endurance: 68.9%
Recharge: 68.9%
You absolutely cannot get bonuses like this from SOs. You can't even approach them. You can get them from HOs, but you will be trading about 33% from either endurance or recharge and getting extra in accuracy (which I feel is less useful, but others will disagree) because there are no HOs that combine any two of damage, endurance, and recharge-- you've only got Acc/Dams for attack slotting benefits. Meanwhile, the Crushing Impact set also gives you global set bonuses that the HOs will not, resulting in a set IO build being stronger than an HO build.
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For all these reasons I've found it easier to just ignore them. I'm sure the set bonuses would make up for the loss in the percentage but the set bonuses aren't even worth it for me if I can only access them by placeing the entire set into a single power.
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In the majority of cases, there's no loss in percentage to make up for, it's pretty much a flat out gain.
But regardless, it probably is easier for you to ignore set IOs. I highly recommend, however, following my answer to your first issue-- level 15 common IOs at level 12, SOs at 22, and level 30 common IOs at level 27. You will save millions, and the hassle of upgrading more than 3 times in a character's lifetime.
If you want, at 50 you can slot level 50 common IOs for a decent boost beyond SO level, but if you're happy with SOs, I don't see much reason to suggest that you do so (it will be expensive, for not that much gain).
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering?
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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It's out already???
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering?
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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It's out already???
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Sorry, should have said I just made the decision to buy the pack, I had been on the fence prior to Castle's comment
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I wander how I can enlist myself as an actor? Movie theater would probly just be that you work in the ticket office at the theater or some other job there. I've noticed there are actully signs in some areas for a live theater in Paragon City. If I could log off there that would put me into my real life day job. lol
Can't remember exactly where that live theater is but I belive it's in Atlas Park.
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There is an outdoor theater in Perez by the lake.
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There's also one in the Hollows. There's probably more somewhere. There needs to be on in Galaxy City (a non-hazard zone) for the RPers.
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I don't think we need a Manimal remake.
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Good god, someone else actually remembers that show? O.O
Hmm...happen to remember the old show about the computer-generated guy that could come out into the real world (As some kind of solid hologram or something), but only at night? ( Something to do with the amount of power needed to run and less people using electricity at night ) Can't recall the name of the show for the life of me.
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I think you are thinking of Max Headrum, dont know if i spelled that right or not. He wuld some times say the same word three or fore times while his head twitched to the side. Think he did Pepsi comershal to.
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No, Weird Science up there had it right: Automan. Though, I do remember Max Headroom, too. It was Coke commercials that he did. And the show was spun off from the character in the commercials. ><
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The Max Headroom is a remake of an HBO video VJ show. The commercials and the video they did are spun off the remake.
YES I WAS A FAN! Go away now...
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Okay, this day job thing? Isn't that basically rewarding us for NOT playing the game?
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The ultimate win for an MMO is to get people to pay you and NEVER log in.
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I bet the power included with the Cyborg bonus pack is the transform to Freak Boss permanent temp power. Not complaining, just it would make perfect sense.
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I'll take that bet. How much ya giving me...er, I mean, wagering?
It's a brand new power.
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<== just bought the pack, even though he has NO cyborg type characters ;P
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It's out already???
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No, he was joking. Should be out in a month they said.
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The fact is, unless you are of the very limited imagination mindset that thinks perfect building is the same as good play , then PvP holds no allure for you. It is, in fact, an annoyance, if not an outright detriment, to your enjoyment of the game.
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Yep. And it always will be, to the vast majority of people who were here the first 4 issues of the game, when there was no PVP at all. And probably even the people that were here for issue 5 and the arena. Many people still blame PVP for the regen nerfs that happened in i4 and i5. Others probably blame PVP for ED and GDN, although that's a little much.
But the game wasn't designed with PVP. And it still feels to many players like the "tacked on" feature that it is. I seriously doubt the amount of new players brought in for just PVP action comes close to the amount of people that left the game in response to "balance" tweaks, made with PVP in mind.
Sorry all if this has already been said since I do not have time to read this entire thread.
But before you DEVS start doing another issue, you need to focus on the lag more then anything else. Many of us have had enough of this damn lag. Plus this new setting system is a pain in the [censored] since I have to keep resetting it with each toons I log on with.
FIX THE LAG AND OTHER BUG ISSUES FIRST!!!!!
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Okay, this day job thing? Isn't that basically rewarding us for NOT playing the game?
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Hay why not Worald of Warcraft lets you earn xp at a faster rate for a shrot time after you have been loged off, the longer you are loged off the longer it lasts.
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Who is Worald and what is this Warcraft he hails from?
But ya, they've had something similar for a while now. But from what were reading in Posi's note, our version wont be exp, but other bonuses. The best part of it, is our bonuses will be VARIED, meaning if you need more cash, log off at Atlas city hall. Need salvage for crafting? Log off at the University.
This feature is pure win. Awesome job Devs.
"You wear a mask to hide who you are, I wear a mask to show who I am"
Arc ID 91456: The Zombie Apocalypse Task Force:poster 1, poster 2
CLICK THE ABOVE LINK TO HELP DO YOUR PART TO SAVE C.O.H!!!!!