Discussion: Issue 13: Architect

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I would normally put this under suggestions, but since it is specific to I13 components...

Player Origin Story Arcs

An idea for an earned bonuses in mission creation. There are many cases of missions involving the rescue, and subsequent teaming with an NPC hero. This occurs everywhere from Outbreak tutorial door mission to lvl 50 missions. So why not use this concept for player created content. One problem is changing the story for existing NPCs. The solution. The authour becomes the NPC!

When creating a Player Origin Story Arc a player sees the costume selection dialog and chooses a costume for the part. The costume is recorded (ala demo file) and the player can choose one travel power, one offensive, one defensive, and one additional powers from their toon at the time of creation. The AI will decide how these are used, just as in missions with supporting NPC. Players, must rescue and/or team with the new NPC, but powers of the player created NPC are scaled as is currently done in such missions. Also the players running the mission must keep the NPC player alive.

This would allow players to create their own character origin stories. Influence and level advancement within the game might be great, but how cool would it be to have someone in the game come up to you and say, "Hey I know you, I saved you from ..." or, "Hey I know you, you helped me defeat ...". This is real recognition in the game!

The ultimate use for this is applying it to SGs, where up to 5 characters from an SG can be selected, only 2 appearing at any one time, to tell the origin story for your super group!!!

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I really like this idea. All except for the part about the limitations on the NPC's powers. Regular NPCs have more powers than that so why limit it that much?

Allso sence you're just placeing yourself inside the mission you should be chooseing from your costume slots rather than makeing a costume allthough that would allso solve the problem of how to get my villains into the mission.

When you're placeing your arch villain at the end of the mission arch have it go to the Character Creator and sort of "recreate" the character you want to appear in the mission allthough it would be easier if you could choose villains from the character select screne.

Anyway if you did insert yourself as a helper NPC the only power limitations I think there should be is that the NPC version of you is exemplared down to the mission holder's level and is subject to the same effect that you yourself would be in. Meaning if the NPC is level 10 it can't use any powers you recived AFTER level 10.

The NPC version would essentally just be you but being controlled by an AI and would in effect be just as stupid as every other NPC charging around attacking everything in sight.

Anyway, I would still use this feature even if we couldn't place our characters into the mission but it's something I'd want added to the feature in a future update if it's not part of the innitial launch.

BTW we should allso be able to choose what rank "Minion, LT, Boss, ect" our own characters appear as in each mission that way we can have the same character appear in multiple missions at higher difficulties without effecting their levels. (A level 50 Arch Villain is much harder to defeat than a level 50 Minion.)

Maybe rather than NPC version haveing real enhancments they can just be based on rank.

Hero/AV = to your character haveing fully slotted HOs/IOs

EB = to your character haveing fully slotted SOs

Boss = to your character haveing fully slotted DOs

LT = to your character haveing fully slotted Trainings

Minion = to your character haveing No Enhancments.

Note the NPC versions would have MORE slots than you have allowing them to have 1 of the hiest level of every Enhanment a power can take.

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Yay for once i think i might have been apart of giving devs the idea of customisable missions.

i did post a suggestion of at least a storyarc writing contest a while back when I12 was still in development.

Although i have to say i was really hoping bases would get some loving, at least add a couple of little tweats such as making objects float much easier and trimming the bluprint on some of the objects.

Although, i'm looking forwad to I13

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In regard to bases, I've allways been hopeing for PERSONAL bases which would be simular to the SG Bases we have now but much cheaper and with some other changes as well.

I'd like to have a Bat Cave as well as a Hall of Justice. (I wouldn't actully use thoughs names in game, I'm useing them now as a metaphor.)

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Just a thought, maybe Pain Domination is a healing and -DE-buffing- set rather than a healing and buffing set. I could easily understand de-buffing someone with pain. Beyond that though, did you ever have a wound cauterized? I have. Hurts like a muther effer, but that is a healing power.... Hmmm. Just a little thinking salve there. Oh and healing IRL, ya know, surgery and the like, HURTS. I think pain themed heals are genious. Villianious healing should hurt, or perhaps include health theft, to your teamates from your enemies. Hmmm... An ofensive healing set. MUAHAHAHAHA!! It could assuradly happen, with persons as creative as the NC/COH/V Devs behind it. These are my hope for what the truth of Pain Domination may be in the end.

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Come From Nothing.

Rial_Vestro thanks for the feedback.

Update: I should have been clearer on the costume selection. The costume dialog I was refering to is the one you get showing you your current costume slots you already have, not so much creating a new one (ala 'costumes' from the menu).

I guess I suggested limiting the player NPC powers because no matter how involved the story is, it is still about the players experience in the game and what they can do, not the achievements of the NPCs in the mission.

It also provides a simpler solution that hopefully has a better chance of seeing the light of day! (*smiles at Devs*)

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Everyone says capt america.....other than Cap, there's like what? Maybe 10 obscure comic book charcters that use a shield?

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I could say the same thing about Ice Blasts. Other than Iceman who does this?

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Blizzard, Ice, SubZero, Kopaka, Capt Cold, Storm, Sylar, Ice MAiden, Frost, Tempest, Yamir, Killer Frost, Celsius, Katara, Aspen, Capt. Planet, Mr. Freeze, Avatar Roku, Coldsnap, Frostbite and like a million more here.

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*clicks link*
*reads list*

WTF? Donald Duck is on this list!
No kidding! Look and see.

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He has ice powers (amongst others) in Kingdom Hearts.

Also, Goofy > Captain America when it comes to shields. Goofy would kick Captain America's [censored] lol.

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...Player Origin Story Arcs... This would allow players to create their own character origin stories. Influence and level advancement within the game might be great, but how cool would it be to have someone in the game come up to you and say, "Hey I know you, I saved you from ..." or, "Hey I know you, you helped me defeat ...". This is real recognition in the game!

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I'm hoping they already incorporated something akin to this into the potential for the Player Created Content. Only I wouldn't want it to be an origin story. I'd like opportunities to incorporate my characters into the mythos of City of Heroes, in a manner that doesn't usurp or contradict what's already there.

I imagine creating a mission in which a team of players are informed that characters which I have created are in trouble. They're told that a few heroes were going to a warehouse to fight some Freakshow guys but screwed up, and a contact asks the player team to go in and save them. At the beginning they'd rescue my controller (controlled of course by the AI of the game). She'd thank them by using her bubble powers, and would tagalong the rest of the mish to help out but the AI would be configured so that she basically bubbles the team once every three minutes and doesn't do much else.

Then near the end of the mish, after fighting a bunch of Freakshow, the team would come across my scrapper who's being held hostage. They save him. He thanks them by rushing into the last big room, almost dying, and then running back to the Player team with a bunch of Freakshow in tow saying "Sorry sorry sorry!" as scrappers are wont to do.

Provided the team survives that, they then enter the final room only to see my elec/energy blaster hooked up to a big machine, being operated by a Big Bad. The Freakshow are using my Benny Edison character as a human battery to run the machine, which is supposed to like, blow up Paragon City or something. In order to save Benny and the city, the player team has to take down the Big Bad Freakshow dude, and destroy the machine.

At least, that's what I want to do with this mission creation tool. Whether or not I'll actually be able to anything remotely like that, remains to be seen. Considering some of the plot arcs I've seen successfully pulled off particularly in the Faultline missions, what I have in mind is feasible. However, it depends on just how user configurable the mission creation tool is. Can I put a machine in the last big room, and then hook up a static version of my Benny Edison to it? Can I make the machine as tough as a Rikti Shield Pylon with the ability to shoot back? Will we even be able to use our PCs as NPCs, or will we be stuck with a fixed pool of generic hostages?

Some years ago now, before the game came out, before I got my hands on the character creation tool, I had a particular character in mind that I wanted to play. I had a name for him and the kind of things he can do. I still can't make THAT character in this game. I've had some false attempts. CoH just isn't versatile enough for me to get him just right. The closest power combo is the grav/kin troller, but it just wasn't quite right.

So with this mission creation tool, I'm not holding my breath. I just hope I can make something entertaining, with a few surprises, that other people will enjoy. Until we actually get our hands on the thing, what we can and can't do is completely hypothetical.

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Seriously guys... why would you give the "Domination" name to another powerset that isn't available to Doms? Stop that.

As usual, I'll be hanging out for the new customisation options. Needless to say, the idea of custom story content thrills me. Please, please PLEASE say we'll be able to make custom NPCs to go with our plots!

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The Girl Your Mother Warned You About



Primary Virtue ~ Secondary Guardian

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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion

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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.

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Nope.

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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion

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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.

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Nope.

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Right. If you read that post, it's clear that a new game engine wouldn't lead to power customization. Power customization would require a retooling of the ENTIRE GAME, which encompasses "the engine, the hardocoded systems, the soft coded scripts, and the overall design decisions that those things were originally built around."

IOW, if we ever do get power customization, it'll take a lot MORE than "just" retooling the game engine.

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Man where should i start??? What are the devs doing? Stalkers get yet another powerset in i13??? OMG and villians get Pain Domiantion??? Aren't they already dominating with widows in pvp??? When are the Heroes gonna get something thats really good? First thing that I think needs to happen in i13 is improving the PB and Ws,you know to make things fair and balanced remember that??? How about pistols for blasters? How about another good damage set for scrappers,Fire melee is great,and 1 more nice set wouldn't hurt.Tanks could use a new good set as well,since brutes have fury,and more powersets than tanks.Man you guys keep giving the villians stuff every issue and keep the heroes behind on the goods.I hope you guys got some more nice stuff to announce,cause right now it looks like a disappointing issue.

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... Yer kidding, Right? All these years people have been moaning about Vside getting hosed, and now you're complaining when it actually gets the goods?

[Stares. In amazement and disbelief.]

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I have to admit that Shields for stalkers does seem a bit misplaced. What do you need with a shield if your main defense is stealth?

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That's easy.....you hide behind the shield.

Seriously, this isssue looks awesome thus far.

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It all sounds great -- I'm thinking both Shield/SS and MA/Shields as options for alts. Possibly even a Pain Domination villain.

But... conspicuously absent from this announcement is any mention of further powerset proliferation. Does that mean there simply won't be any this time? I hope that's not the case, since the talk leading up to the Issue 12 release definitely made it sound like proliferation would be an every-issue type of thing.

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Originally, PP was not scheduled for 13. Then, it was added as a Stretch Goal ("If you have extra time...") At this point, it isn't terribly likely, but who knows? Maybe there won't be any bugs in Beta!

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Isn't Pain domination an example of proliferation? I mean we're getting empathy over to villains just with a different name (and possible slightly different powers) but still. I would say that this was the proliferation continuing in issue 13, we are after all getting Shields (which after seeing all the animation and activation time stuff they've done to ensure shields looks good, seems like shields was a pain in the butt to get done).

We as players voted on the defensive set we'd most like to see and we got it, so I would give the devs a big hand b/c at one time it looked like we'd never have a set like this due to the time its taken to create.

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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion

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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.

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Nope.

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Right. If you read that post, it's clear that a new game engine wouldn't lead to power customization. Power customization would require a retooling of the ENTIRE GAME, which encompasses "the engine, the hardocoded systems, the soft coded scripts, and the overall design decisions that those things were originally built around."

IOW, if we ever do get power customization, it'll take a lot MORE than "just" retooling the game engine.

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Actually from what I understood, it wouldn't involve the engine very much, if at all, but instead would be a massive, fundamental reworking of how the powers system itself works.

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Sounds cool.
Does this include changing the power's color? Sorry if you already anwer this qustion

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That would require a LOT more work than what'd go into just a normal issue. A whole new game engine. This is something that's been discussed hundreds of times before already.

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Nope.

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Right. If you read that post, it's clear that a new game engine wouldn't lead to power customization. Power customization would require a retooling of the ENTIRE GAME, which encompasses "the engine, the hardocoded systems, the soft coded scripts, and the overall design decisions that those things were originally built around."

IOW, if we ever do get power customization, it'll take a lot MORE than "just" retooling the game engine.

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Actually from what I understood, it wouldn't involve the engine very much, if at all, but instead would be a massive, fundamental reworking of how the powers system itself works.

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Yeah, technically the engine itself probably wouldn't have a whole lot to do with it; I was just pointing out that the people who think it's JUST the engine that would need redone are thinking too small. The things they'd have to do to get power customization working would be a lot harder and, well, bigger, than an engine retooling.

EDIT: Actually, though, now that I think about it, the misunderstanding probably stems from the fact that most players don't really know what the "game engine" really is.

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Recently (i12) the ability to have branching dialog was added to the game.
Will we be able to use this feature for player-generated missions?


Will it be possible to flag a created mission as Private, and only give selected people access to it (through something like passwords, invites, access lists or Magic)?

Sometimes you may not want a mission to be accessible for everyone.
Maybe it's a mission you only want to share with a select group of people (for instance a SG specific mission), maybe you don't feel comfortable with sharing it with everyone (you may not be interested in public critique, or maybe you don't feel confident in your ability to create missions yet), or maybe you don't feel completely done with the mission yet but want someone else to take a look at it.

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Recently (i12) the ability to have branching dialog was added to the game.
Will we be able to use this feature for player-generated missions?


Will it be possible to flag a created mission as Private, and only give selected people access to it (through something like passwords, invites, access lists or Magic)?


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Let's give Lighthouse a break for a bit. I'll get this one:

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Sorry, You'll just have to wait.

More details on all the many features in Issue 13 will be coming between now and open beta.

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I am ecstatic that in Posi's letter there will be some love granted to base building! Seconds floors? Pleeaaase? Doors? Pleeease? Private rooms? Pleeeeaaaaaaase?

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Sheesh! Give the devs a chance to test them. All the features you mentioned have been discussed to no end on these forums. Now, we have a update so dedicated to the bases, it's NAMED for the activity.

I do think if it is POSSIBLE to include these features, they are indeed. If they are not included... I suspect they were attempted and found too difficult.

Now, I MUST inquire if you guys can EVER be satisfied. The devs are trying, but will they ever succeed? Will there EVER be an update where ALL the forum surfers are satisfied?

Nah, I didn't think so either.

I salute the devs and their efforts.

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Recently (i12) the ability to have branching dialog was added to the game.
Will we be able to use this feature for player-generated missions?


Will it be possible to flag a created mission as Private, and only give selected people access to it (through something like passwords, invites, access lists or Magic)?


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Let's give Lighthouse a break for a bit. I'll get this one:

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Sorry, You'll just have to wait.

More details on all the many features in Issue 13 will be coming between now and open beta.

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Not all questions are asked only because you are looking for an answer.

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It all sounds great -- I'm thinking both Shield/SS and MA/Shields as options for alts. Possibly even a Pain Domination villain.

But... conspicuously absent from this announcement is any mention of further powerset proliferation. Does that mean there simply won't be any this time? I hope that's not the case, since the talk leading up to the Issue 12 release definitely made it sound like proliferation would be an every-issue type of thing.

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Like adding shields for the melee types and pain dom for dominators and MMs isn't adding power sets? Just what is YOUR definition?

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So why is everyone ignoring Patron Power Pool respecs?

One of the biggest complaints about Villains has been fixed and hardly anyone has commented on it.

What gives?

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Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind

OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!

Most of the time when a new issue comes out, I'm like "they won't be able to top this one with the next one." Then I say the same thing when the next one comes out.

You always amaze me, CoH team. Thanks for all the work you do. Can't wait for issue 13

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Looks like good stuff. I love how people complain, no matter what they get. Shields for the melee sets, Pain Domination for MM's and Corrs. (For stalkers, the shield should be a trash can or box.)

Like everyone else, I'm eager for the architect system. Reading over Positron's letter, it's clear that it won't be what people expect. Some people will be delighted to see the system is more powerful than expected, and many will probably be disappointed that it wont have a feature or two that they wanted in the system. I have a strong feeling that not only will there be a pool of generic villains and such to include into the storyline, but a more basic way of creating your own NPC's. To keep them fair to the various levels that one might play the mission, you'll probably only be able to select the primary and secondary powers of the NPC, and the system will figure out which powers they get for which levels, and, hopefully, you'll have good control over the costumes.

Pistols.. yeah, too bad they didn't have that, but honestly, not a huge disappointment for me. It'd be neat to have, but honestly some of the powers in the blaster set for pistols would have to really be stretched. How would you make a sniper attack for pistols?

What I think we need before we get too many more brand new powersets is more power proliferation. I'd like to see elec/elec and earth/earth doms for one thing, and plant/plant trollers. I'd also like to see MM's get a new pet set. Five is the least amount of primary powers in the game, and with as popular as MM's are, it's surprising that they haven't been given some primary love, though the secondary they're getting does sound promising. I understand that MM's are only one archetype, and it's a lot of work to make a new pet set.. but out of the 5 origins, we don't have a pet that symbolizes 'Mutant'. I'd like to see some horrific creatures, or rat people or something under an MM's control.

But anyway. The day job system sounds awesome. Free rewards for logging off. It sounds like, unless they put a time limit (you have to be logged off for 2 hours to 'begin' a day job), then people might be logging on and off all over the place to try and get their badges, and just for the sake of logging on and off. Hopefully it won't create any lag for specific areas that might be more popular to log in/out of, though with the range that they're promising, I doubt that'll be a problem.

New stuff for Cimerora... That doesn't excite me. I wasn't too pleased with what they had, though a full costume set for one TF was sure nice. I guess we'll have to see what they add.

I predict that they'll be announcing more news on top of all of this. I mean, it hasn't hit beta yet, and with the Halloween and Christmas events coming up, I kinda doubt that we're going to see a completed issue within the next month, maybe two. I'm eager to have it though, so let's get going devs!

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As for the Captain America ripoffs... I can't wait to see a bunch of 'Generic#####' running around Atlas. But really, I doubt that many people are going to do that. I'd like to think that the CoH community understands the situation, what with copyright laws and such.

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So why is everyone ignoring Patron Power Pool respecs?

One of the biggest complaints about Villains has been fixed and hardly anyone has commented on it.

What gives?

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Because that was leaked by one of the devs weeks and weeks ago. It isn't a surprise anymore.

In fact, most of this issue isn't really a surprise (at least what we know about it so far).

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So why is everyone ignoring Patron Power Pool respecs?

One of the biggest complaints about Villains has been fixed and hardly anyone has commented on it.

What gives?

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Never been a big issue with me. IMO you should have always been able to respec out of PPPs, they just fixed a mistake.

I think the big complaint about PPPS is that they suck and are very limited as far as matching the theme of a character. Now if they were offering the Epic power pools as an option to villains...that would be something to be excited about.

Hell, I'd be happy if they added some more generic PPPs that could actually work themeticaly with any of my charcters. Hand to Hand Combat PPP? Dual Pistols PPP? That would be something to get excited about.

Being able to respec to a different PPP is just a bug fix IMO.

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I WISH DOMS GOT PAIN DOMINATION TOO IT WOULD ONLY MAKE SENSE!

and maybe blasters get shields as second pool? eh? eh?

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Hey, the Doms are the PRIMARY target of the power set. Masterminds get a reduced version of it and NO ONE ELSE gets it. Why are so many people not understanding this is a gift to the dominators? Masterminds also benefit, but the Doms are the primary beneficiaries.

As someone who LOVES running MMs (almost half of my toons on 4 servers are MMs), I'm not complaining.

As for the name; think about it. Empathy takes damage from an ally, basically 'heals'. It even has a power called 'absorb pain'.

I suspect 'Pain Domination' does the reverse... inflicts pain (and some damage). I see mobs getting stunned, collapsing, holding their heads in pain. If that isn't dominating your foes with pain, what would be?

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Corruptors and MMs....Dominatorss don't get it ......

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