Discussion: It's All Access for CoH and CoV
By
Agonus,
Posted on: 2008-07-16 24:03 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I've got a couple of video cards around here that I could get on E-Bay now for next to nothing! When are the graphics card companies going to reimburse me for the price difference!?!?
Pththththththhh.
I want to know about the offline character "awards", myself. XP while offline? A new line of badges for days offline? ("AWOL" badge - for being offline for 500 days! 
)
So now that CoH and CoV are the same game, would it be possible to get some balance for content?
The villians have so many fewer zones, so many fewer Task forces and less of everything except class.
What have the villains got for new zones or zone revamps that are NOT shared zones?
As far as I know... errr.. anyone? anyone?
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So now that CoH and CoV are the same game, would it be possible to get some balance for content?
The villians have so many fewer zones, so many fewer Task forces and less of everything except class.
What have the villains got for new zones or zone revamps that are NOT shared zones?
As far as I know... errr.. anyone? anyone?
[/ QUOTE ]
To my understanding that was the feedback that the CoV devs got from the playerbase when the game was designed; fewer zones, less TFs and more Story Arcs. Not that I agree with that feedback, but that seems to be the story I've read.
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So now that CoH and CoV are the same game, would it be possible to get some balance for content?
The villians have so many fewer zones, so many fewer Task forces and less of everything except class.
What have the villains got for new zones or zone revamps that are NOT shared zones?
As far as I know... errr.. anyone? anyone?
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To my understanding that was the feedback that the CoV devs got from the playerbase when the game was designed; fewer zones, less TFs and more Story Arcs. Not that I agree with that feedback, but that seems to be the story I've read.
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and if they were not "the same game" that would be ok, but now that they are offically "the same game" I dont think totally ignoring the villian side is a reasonable option anymore.
That would be like only fixing up half your car, if you decided to fix one out of two autos up thats a choice, but to fix up half is just stupid.
The whole idea of being able make my own missions...hopefully storyarcs and share them with other people is just...awsome...to me this is the best mmo out there...nothing compares...and a feature like this will just put CoX further ahead in the race of best mmo, all this game needs now is some good publicity...some add's in tv and other media...hire guys like William Katt, Lou Ferrignio (sp), Dean Cain and many others to be in this adds...more paying customers = more content....i think.
The future looks good for this game..i cant wait for the next adventure these developers will give us all. 
CoX for life !!
I've been lobbying for merger for two years.. FINALLY!
And this is a nice prelude to the hopeful merger of the the two websites where the viilainside was oft overlooked. Even though the two boards use the same database, the two sides are hard coded differently. I'm sure the new forum software coming real soon (as hinted by the US mods and confirmed by the EU mod) will be just one board with configurable skins (with default choices of 'blue' and 'red').
WRT OFFLINE REWARDS: I'm guessing this is a result of the player mission generator. I can't see the mission generator being part of the game because of how exploitable that would be (including building the perfect farm). So, there will have to be offline rewards for making good and popular missions, including a reward if the Devs chose your mission to be integrated into the real game.
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My views on the merger: it makes sense. It removes the artificial barrier between CoH and CoV in terms of player purchases and makes it a lot easier to sell CoH/V moving forward - you have only to buy one box /code.
Now: why?
First off, mission creation. The mission creation system should allow you to create missions for either side - it's the same toolset, just a different destination. This sees dedicated hero / villain players able to create content for the other side and then be able to test it.
Secondly, it opens the doors for side switching. This suddenly extends the life of any lvl 50 character - they flip sides, experience the game from a different angle - and would bring a huge boost to CoV as all the lvl 50 heroes suddenly go bad. Ouroboros will get absolutely pounded during this period too.
Thirdly, it becomes easier to develop for CoH/V moving forward since they are now the same game. Yes, the Rogue Isles needs more dedicated zones, but the player base (especially with side switching) now warrants spending that time on it.
... of course, one alternative could be side switching AND ATs no longer being linked to sides, but it depends on when you can flip to the other side. A lvl 2 flipping point could possibly work, a lvl 10 flipping point would be less popular, a 'start a MM in Atlas Park' would probably be most popular but require the most work.
Fourthly, a market merge isn't needed if you can (easily)switch sides.
Finally, it is very likely this combination of CoH and CoV sees coop missions become a lot more common. Plus a new box expansion at I13 to put CoH/V out on the shelf before some of its competitors get there.
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So issie 13 should be 2-4 months away...*holding breath.
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4 months won't work if they are trying to do 3 issues per year. Now that they are stocking dev talent, they have no reason to not make that quota. It pretty much has to be Sep. and Dec. for the next issues.
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The villians have so many fewer zones, so many fewer Task forces and less of everything except class.
What have the villains got for new zones or zone revamps that are NOT shared zones?
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The problem is something Posi mentioned. Heroside has too many zones that sit being unused. Why would the devs add more zones to match CoH when they can't keep the current zones in CoH fairly actively played? You could easily trim two zones(Boom, Crey's) from CoH right now with little recourse. Even some of the better built zones aren't exactly highly active for teams(Croatoa outside of Katie and Stringa). Somehow I don't think diversifying the smaller CoV player base over even more zones is a Good Thing(tm).
....retrograde refunds for purchasing both plz.
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My views on the merger: it makes sense. It removes the artificial barrier between CoH and CoV in terms of player purchases and makes it a lot easier to sell CoH/V moving forward - you have only to buy one box /code.
Now: why?
First off, mission creation. The mission creation system should allow you to create missions for either side - it's the same toolset, just a different destination. This sees dedicated hero / villain players able to create content for the other side and then be able to test it.
Secondly, it opens the doors for side switching. This suddenly extends the life of any lvl 50 character - they flip sides, experience the game from a different angle - and would bring a huge boost to CoV as all the lvl 50 heroes suddenly go bad. Ouroboros will get absolutely pounded during this period too.
Thirdly, it becomes easier to develop for CoH/V moving forward since they are now the same game. Yes, the Rogue Isles needs more dedicated zones, but the player base (especially with side switching) now warrants spending that time on it.
... of course, one alternative could be side switching AND ATs no longer being linked to sides, but it depends on when you can flip to the other side. A lvl 2 flipping point could possibly work, a lvl 10 flipping point would be less popular, a 'start a MM in Atlas Park' would probably be most popular but require the most work.
Fourthly, a market merge isn't needed if you can (easily)switch sides.
Finally, it is very likely this combination of CoH and CoV sees coop missions become a lot more common. Plus a new box expansion at I13 to put CoH/V out on the shelf before some of its competitors get there.
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I'm not sure if literal side-switching is coming soon, but a related possibility I can see is cross-zoning. The devs could make hero-side missions that take place in the Rogue Isles, and vice-versa, and heroes and villains would in effect be playing in the same zones, not entirely different from running opposite-side missions in Sirens or Warburg. It would in effect double the amount of game area that each player could roam in, without diluting the playerbase any further into a larger number of actual zones.
There is an obvious story conceit available to implement this from a story-perspective. For every contact that currently exists hero-side and villain side, the devs could script in its anti-contact. Villains get to run the version where the villain triumphs, and heroes get to run the alternate version where the heroes stop them (philosophical question: is the anti-Phipps arc one where the hero prevents a lot of nastiness from happening, or is the anti-Phipps arc the one where the hero tries but ultimately fails to stop a lot of nastiness from happening?)
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Game needs a more prolific, interactive world than its static environment via door missions primarily now. Im hoping they're planning to evolve the game to that and with an engine upgrade, but the job hiring from NorCal isn't indicative of that, seems like they're going to continue to nurse along the current engine/game with tweaks.
It'd be nice if the long long long ago concent of CoH being free style when choosing powers etc was to be implemented (ie Archetypes becoming only an inherent power set up and nothing more) but I don't think they're gonna go this route.
Either all that or they're planning to make CoH free to play with subscriptions being for extra content or features and they've give Bling gnomes for cashing inhancers while in missions :P
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I am very glad ot hear this...I have new friends joining but they are hesistant to do so when they have to buy two games.
I know a lot of people that stopped playing because they didn't want to shell out more money to access bases.
I love hearing this, the only thing that could make this better is if we could access content for both games somehow...perhaps through the Ouroboros system 
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Will those of us who purchased City of Villains and the additional content actually receive some sort of "game" compensation for what have essentially become redundant purchases?
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I'm shocked people are even considering such things.
Comparison: You buy a new game - game #1. Three years down the line, the game company starts to give away game #1 as a free bonus to those who order game #2. Would you, as a customer who ordered game #1 demand compensation?
Or this - Command and Conquer, Marathon, Wolfenstein, Tribes and Sim City are all freeware now. Try going to one of the companies who own those and demand a refund for the game you bought a decade ago.
Hint: If you did, they would laugh at you. You bought a product and got several years use out of it. Just because an older product is discounted/used as a free promotion/made freeware does NOT entitle you to compensation. No business model works that way. It would be insane for them to do so.
Long overdue, and for all the reasons in the original article. I approve. I would have approved even more if you'd done so back when the "one-time" grant was made, but still, I approve.
Especially if it's true that issue 13 includes substantial new base upgrades, because my imagination doesn't stretch far enough to cover the howling if only villains, and heroes who'd bought the villain game, had access to the main content from an issue.
Personally I see this as long overdue really. Good things seem to be in the works. ^_^b
Also, to everyone wanting money back; EAT CARP YOU WHINER!
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The only two things I can see that woudl require ownig both (and this announcement seems to indicate that to move forward with the IP they need people to own both) are bases and related content (Raids, mission computer missions, base updates, IoP, possibly the missions from the upcomming mission designer) and side-swapping. If you wanted to have heroic misison in the Rogue Islands, that wouldn't require you to own CoV and the reverse is true; all they'd need was a way to get to and from those zones that wa slimited by a mission-door like entry system, but to properly use side switching, you would have to own both.
As for having paid for both and refunds and such. If they decided, since I bought both, to send me a refund or credit me 3 or 4 free months, I most definately wouldn't turn them down, but neither do I expect it. CoH is over 4 years old, CoV almost three. They're older games, and this is just a way to retain subs and perhaps generate a few more (especially if they're gearing up for a boxed expansion to both). Besides, they already let that dog out in October when they gave the "missing" side away to all the current subscribers (an action I was against at the time for several reasons). Yes, I can see this effecting some people's decisions to buy future expansions (and I bet it effected soem people's decisions to return and buy the missing side after the October giveaway) and fostering an "I'll wait it'll be free later" attitude, and that's a danger they're willing to face and decided it's mild enough to basically ignore.
Three issues per year. If they're going to miss that goal it will be this year. They got a bit of a late start with I12 in May, so it might throw them off a bit (can't release in late October and can't release in Late December effectively tying up another month of time) but they definately have time to get two more out the door, assuming they're not having training/"gettign up to speed" problems with the new people, which could hinder them more than help for a while.
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There is a reason for the rejoicing in Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. It is official NCsoft has completely merged the two games into one game universe. All current subscribers who only had one of the games (City of Heroes or City of Villains) now have access to the features of both games. Additionally, all City of Heroes and City of Villains games for sale at retail or online will grant access to both games.
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I'm looking forward to the point in time when they are truly completely merged as in:
[*] The market is one market.[*] My hero can give items and insps that I can't use to a villian teammate in a coop zone.[*] Going to my base, orobouros, or the hospital doesn't kick me from the team in a joint holiday event or co-op zone.
That's when I will consider them merged. Here's to looking forward to more steps in the right direction though.
Cheers.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
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Don't know if this has been suggested yet, but you know what would be nice? The ability to create characters at your highest character level at the beginning.
Like say you're rather new, and you get a character up to level 20. There should be a little bar when you create a character that says "Would you like to create a higher level character?" And if you pull that bar, your character starts with up to your highest level character's (20 for this example) in level ups coming to them when they start.
Just an idea, one that's been milling around in my head for a while because as much as I love this game, I'd like to be able to skip the beginning storylines that I've seen multiple multiple times. They're good don't get me wrong, but there are just so many times you can beat on Hellions and not think "Man... I hope I get to Frost Fire soon... oh wait... I'm only level 3... crap!"
/e activateflameguard
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Will those of us who purchased City of Villains and the additional content actually receive some sort of "game" compensation for what have essentially become redundant purchases?
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I'm shocked people are even considering such things.
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I'm not. People will complain about anything. Somewhere, theres probably someone who wants a refund for a slurpee they paid for because 7-11 gave some away for free recently. Fortunately, as you say, sane business people just laugh off these nutbars.
Heroes
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Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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....retrograde refunds for purchasing both plz.
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/jranger!
IOW, only when you want to forfeit the progress during your "CoV 3 Year Head Start" 
This sounds good to me! And yes, I've paid (full price) for all my stuff along the way too. For which I've received several years of good times! That's value.
And seriously, hasn't everyone already heard of the Good vs. Evil box? BOTH games (eep!) in one box and the last I saw, it was selling at discounted prices that were cheaper than full retail for one. With just the previous game-grant and the GvE box on the shelf . . . well, I don't see where the monetary situation is really any different. I know whenever I try to get a new friend interested in CoX, I always make sure to tell them to look for the GvE box.
(At the time I'm writing this, I see GvE listed on the web-sites of at least 2 major retailers for $19.99.)
(And one major online retailer has it for $11.99! Cheaper than the price of the included month of play! Just saying.)
I've been hoping a future expansion box would be more of a "Grey Side", in between the "Black & White" we currently have.
/e step into the wayback machine
Much like when the "Dark Champions" book was released for the (PnP) 4th Ed Champions RPG.
Vigilantes, Spies, Agents with questionable morals/bosses/goals - that sort of thing.
(Wasn't this hinted at or mentioned before, around I8 or maybe even right before I6? - when they announced there would only be one Sub Fee for both Games??)
It would be nice.
They might even think about forgoing the Teen Rating - allowing for really gritty, more realistic/believable story arcs and whatnot.
Maybe some new Zones in a "Grey Area" - which might help alleviate or even solve the "Every New Zone is a Co-op Zone problem" - Not really PvP zones (or not necessarily?) - but maybe some Suburbs, or Semi-Urban Sprawl = Less of the "Its a City OR an Island" thing.
A "Middle ground" between the mostly four-color comic, Paragon City Zones & the Run-down, Bad guy controlled Rouge Isles.
CoH: Atlas Park-Paragon City, w/ Longbow, & Hero Corp
*Somewhere in between: a "Grey Area/Zones" with a couple new NPC groups maybe a S.H.I.E.L.D.-ish one, and Alphabet Agency or two, etc.*
CoV: Mercy-Rouge Isles, w/ Arachnos & the various Patrons
You know so just maybe we can finally actually KILL off the freaking Bad/Good/or Other Guys - rather than "apprehending them" and everyone getting away via the TP System.
By that I mean killing off NPC's story-wise - not PK'ing, just maybe we could leave the Comic book code Era for abit. (PLEASE!)
And the whole frakking "GI Joe vs Cobra cartoon setup" - where there's a parachute for EVERY plane/helicopter shot down - so nobody dies.
All retreat from the whole sanitized & Kid-Friendly stuff.
Maybe the Villains could even start to be more Villainous every now and again, (pretty please)?
That's really just my wishful thinking on how they could expand the IP.
I'm psyched about the announcement, and curious about some of the possible stuff - vaguely mentioned too.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
City of Heroes didn't fail, City of Heroes was killed. If a 747 dropped on your house, you'd say you were killed, not you failed to find a safer dwelling.
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Will those of us who purchased City of Villains and the additional content actually receive some sort of "game" compensation for what have essentially become redundant purchases?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm shocked people are even considering such things.
Comparison: You buy a new game - game #1. Three years down the line, the game company starts to give away game #1 as a free bonus to those who order game #2. Would you, as a customer who ordered game #1 demand compensation?
Or this - Command and Conquer, Marathon, Wolfenstein, Tribes and Sim City are all freeware now. Try going to one of the companies who own those and demand a refund for the game you bought a decade ago.
Hint: If you did, they would laugh at you. You bought a product and got several years use out of it. Just because an older product is discounted/used as a free promotion/made freeware does NOT entitle you to compensation. No business model works that way. It would be insane for them to do so.
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I was curious about this, given the recent grumbles about EQ2 making multiple expansion packs free for download for all returning customers.
Out of all the MMO's that have come and gone (and stayed in one form or another) City of Heroes and City of Villains remains the one that I've keep active in over the past years. Definitely not for the graphics, but for the constantly evolving gameplay and innovations.
[ QUOTE ][*] The market is one market.[*] My hero can give items and insps that I can't use to a villian teammate in a coop zone.[*] Going to my base, orobouros, or the hospital doesn't kick me from the team in a joint holiday event or co-op zone.
That's when I will consider them merged. Here's to looking forward to more steps in the right direction though.
Cheers.
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I sooo hear you... these are points of contension for me as well.
Indig , leader of the City of Gaymers
City of Gaymers on Guildportal.com
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.asp...3&TabID=295104
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CoH - Retail x2
CoH - Collectors x2
CoV x2
Pocket D TP/Jump Jet Pack x2
Wedding Pack x2
I don't feel I wasted my money and have no animosity at all about expanding the full game to everyone.
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I paid for the same (CoV Collectors Edition as well) and was curious.
Will those of us who purchased City of Villains and the additional content actually receive some sort of "game" compensation for what have essentially become redundant purchases?