Discussion: PAX- Seattle Aug 29-31st
By
4_Thirty_5,
Posted on: 2008-04-25 17:46 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Hey Ex Libris,
Can we get a new thread to keep discussing the Meet and Greet?
This one has clearly been relegated to the ninth plane of hell with all the whine and flames.
Thanks.
Love and Kisses,
Cobaltix
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Speaking of which, was there ever a final decision on where to meet up? I confess to have skimmed over the 200+ posts of kvetching over a costume power.
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Hey Ex Libris,
Can we get a new thread to keep discussing the Meet and Greet?
This one has clearly been relegated to the ninth plane of hell with all the whine and flames.
Thanks.
Love and Kisses,
Cobaltix
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Speaking of which, was there ever a final decision on where to meet up? I confess to have skimmed over the 200+ posts of kvetching over a costume power.
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I'm having a tough time finding a venue that will host us for dinner without doing any contract negotiations.
If anyone has suggestions I'm all over it, Rock Bottom Brewery just let me know that we can try and stop in that night but they will not hold the room for us.
Thoughts?
Ex
I'd like to talk to those that think those of us that are disappointed in NC's decision to give in-game items to conventionites is whining and [censored].
Firstly, I came onto this topic in the middle of page 5. I don't know what went on before that I just posted my grievance and asked that it might be available in the future.
I did not threaten to take my business elsewhere, I love this game
I did not threaten to shout doom from the rooftops, I love this game
I did not scream and flame and whine about it, I love this game.
What I did ask for, was say 3 months from now, that they come out with a costume pack with all the costume pieces that were at one point exclusive (That can't already still be gotten in game) and all the Temporary NPC change powers made permenant already included. Then, say once a year, they can come out with a costume pack update.
I'd pay 10 bucks a shot for that. Am I whining? No. I'm just suggesting a future course of action. Please stop ripping into people that have a different opinion than the "hardline" It's really rather rude, and degrades those of us who are voicing legitimate arguments.
Thank you for your time.
Sorry again, but my figures for seating capacity come directly from the San Diego Convention Center website.
San Diego Convention Center Website - Check it yourself. (use the "level details" then select the "room viewer and seating configurations" for each floor)
The Lower Level (exhibition hall):
ABC - Max Seating 20000 (empy) - 15000 (banquet)
DEFGH - Max Seating 28910 (empty) - 15200 (banquet)
total for level: 48910 (empty) - 30200 (banquet)
Mezzanine Level:
Rooms 12 to 19 - Max Seating 2589 (empty)
Upper Level:
Rooms 1-11, 20-33, and Sails Pavillion - Max Seating 27398 (empty)
TOTAL seating (empty) 78897.
And "empty" is the equivalent to theater-style setup usually, or slightly more.
And those are Fire Marshal Code limits. If there were 125k people in there at once, it would have been shut down (not to mention have been so crowded EVERYWHERE that you could not breathe.)
Assuming a normal split of convention layouts, and exhibition space usage, that convention center can comfortably hold about 30k-40k people at once.
I have organized, run, and worked conventions of all kinds for the last 20 years. Trust me, I know how they cook the numbers and arrange for things to look and sound bigger than they really are. And I also know the logistics involved.
Oh, and by the way. I HAVE been there. Just not in the last few years. And at other convention centers.
The numbers I quote above are DIRECTLY from the San Diego Convention Center. It WILL NOT HOLD 125,000 people, even if you turn the exhibition hall into standing room only with no booths. Check the numbers for yourself.
As for the 'every single website' comment....I explained in my very first post that almost ALL conventions measure attendance in BODIES PER DAY. Yep, they do. They do this since it is the easiest way to count it for big convention centers where they can have people enter through turnstiles and such at registration, and also takes into account 1-day passes and such. You may have attended a lot of conventions, but apparently you haven't worked many, or you would know this.
Nice picture of the line. The Registration Line at DragonCon last year at some points stretched 5 city blocks, OUTSIDE the hotel, not to mention the winding path inside. If you think that picture impresses me, you are quite mistaken....I've seen a lot worse in my time working conventions.
The SDCC provides about 1 million sq. feet of usable space, with over half of it dedicated to the exhibition hall.
The FOUR Hotels occupied by DragonCon/ACE provide about 600,000 sq. feet of convention space.
And the attendance records for DragonCon/ACE specifically note that they are not measured in the typical "bodies per day" measure, but actual number of registered members.
Look up the numbers yourself. I have.
And as for the 'crossover'.....DragonCon is ALSO the Atlanta Comics Expo. If that isn't an appropriate venue for a superhero game, I don't know what would be....
*shrug* If you won't believe the numbers on the San Diego Convention Centers own website, feel free to continue to believe what you want.
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<QR>
Hey Ex Libris,
Can we get a new thread to keep discussing the Meet and Greet?
This one has clearly been relegated to the ninth plane of hell with all the whine and flames.
Thanks.
Love and Kisses,
Cobaltix
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Speaking of which, was there ever a final decision on where to meet up? I confess to have skimmed over the 200+ posts of kvetching over a costume power.
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I'm having a tough time finding a venue that will host us for dinner without doing any contract negotiations.
If anyone has suggestions I'm all over it, Rock Bottom Brewery just let me know that we can try and stop in that night but they will not hold the room for us.
Thoughts?
Ex
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it will be incredibly difficult to get any place to commit to us when we have an unknown number of guests and aren't willing to guarantee a set bartab amount. especially downtown. I might know a place that could facilitate 10-15 but any more than that would be trouble.
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They certainly do. They tell me that some people have unimaginably unrealistic expectations.
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Isn't that the truth. Add me to the list of those people who are a bit taken a back at how much hate something this small has generated.
And for people, going on about fairness, on princable i see your point, i do, but, the truth is, LIFE isn't fair, on so many more GRAND levels then this... it just seems to trivial to fight over. It might not be fair, but it's a game where talking about, not some kid stricken with cancer or aids or something, which from the HATE and VENOM, and PASSION i read in some of these postes, you'd THINK was the case.
Prospictive people...
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Or ... some of us might have already created PPD characters - for example, I have "Detective Keyes", a Psi/Mental Blaster, on Virtue ... and I've had him since i12 went live; I'd be treating a PPD HArdshell "not-so-temporary" power as a sixth costume slot.
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If this perk was never offered, would that be more acceptable? It would be "fair," no?
What if your detective was female? (I'm assuming it's not.) Transforming into a male wouldn't be nearly as appealing, would it?
You what, if they had made the Rularuu Broadsword one of these perks and such that my BS/Regen couldn't attain it, I might be disappointed (since it fits her perfectly), but I would hardly be the things mentioned in this thread. (Along the lines of "your marketing people are idiots, fire them.") I put quite a bit of effort into the characters I create too, they're not just generic heoes because I wanted to play set X and Y.
As I said, I do not understand all the hatred shown here. It's just too minor of an issue.
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Oh, as for your two solutions? You missed one: Send someone to a convention that is somewhere OTHER than the West Coast.
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Let's say they send someone to New York. Someone in Florida doesn't have the same access as someone in NY, so it's unfair, hold something closer to that. Then the Midwest would complain. Then states in the Midwest, etc. What about Canada? Australia? It's impossible for them to please / be "fair" to everyone. People will be excluded no matter what. Does that mean they should never go to cons at all?
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I mean, come on ... webcomic artists (who survive on income from their webcomic alone) can afford to attend every convention under the sun all year long, but a global corporation can't afford to send a schlub or two cross-country once or twice a year ...?
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I'm not even going to pretend to know the costs or logistics of NCNC or a comic artist in an event like this. You can ask them.
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I work for a Fortune 500 company and, let me assure you, this type of thing is a good way to wind up in the unemployment line.
#1 Give away an option to a potential 1% of a customer base (especially when there is more interest in buying on this website than will actually receive the option in Seattle).
#2 Potentially selling it to the entire customer base, thereby increasing our profit margin and (most importantly) allowing us to remain in business even longer.
If there is no risk, guess which one is a pass or fail grade in a basic Economics/Business course. 
Personally, I could care less about these giveaways, since theyre not true costume options. It just baffles me that a business is willing to let something they could profit off of potentially cost them with their costumer base.
Anyway, lets get to something more important, like an announcement of the Winter Event being tested soon. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
A few things to that:
If they sell it, you will have people complaining that NCNC is greedy, grabbing for money, and that CoX is becoming "all about microtransactions". And no matter what the price is set at, it will be "too high" for many.
Also, convention give-aways are a tradition dating back 20+ yrs. A large majority of game (video and otherwise) throw out these small, essentially meaningless and trivial items as a "thank you" for people coming to see them.
There is no pleasing people. So NCNC is going with the established procedures/conventions. Can't blame them for that.
All that having been said, I would like to see NCNC send 2-3 people from different areas of NCNC (say Ex/LH, Posi/Castle and/or SexyJ/BaBs) to at least one East Coast convention every 3yrs or so. When/if they do so, they can give away "supercodes" that grant 2 out of 3 (or whatever) of the special West Coast convention giveaways.
I say this because I think it would be good business and... well... because I'd probably bet to go.
Oh and as I said the last time the crazy rants (as opposed to the constructive suggestions) started about the Freak Tank costume:
Much ado about nothing.
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...the inherent "Dev Whim" feel of Bug Hunter?...
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Point of order - while they've never used the WORD whim, they have (basically) admitted it. Case in point - at the last minute in this last patch they snuck in a fix for an exploit I had reported when bases FIRST came out.
I made the mistake of joking about Bug Hunter in the post and the reaction I got was nothing short of hostile. But yea - Bug Hunter is another example of a BIMM: "BAD IDEA MADE MANIFEST"
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First rule of..."it"...is we don't POST about..."it". lol
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I miss when the majority of the posts here were constructive. They seem so far between anymore.
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I'm sig'ing this Sarrate. Sig'ing it for truth.
Well I went to the Wizard World Con over in Arlington, Texas and they gave out shirts for CoX and CoV. I don't see why they didn't just stick to those instead of causing something we all know would cause a nuclear flamewar...
And honestly, I'd rather have a PPD hardsuit costume as clothing fades over time.
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But yea - Bug Hunter is another example of a BIMM: "BAD IDEA MADE MANIFEST"
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First rule of..."it"...is we don't POST about..."it". lol
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If you're talking about what I never mentioned, you're right - we don't talk about "it" even in the past tense because "it" might come back in the future.
And that would be bad.
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The replies here speak for themselves.
It's great that there are a few generous souls who wish well on those who are lucky/wealthy/have-enough-vacation-time to pick up this gift. I don't begrudge those people, either. If I was at PAX, I'd pick up one, too.
However, yes, every time I see one of those costumes in-game, I will think ill of the company who gave it to some paying customers and kept it from this paying customer -- me. That's just the truth. CoH does a lot of things right, but this is not one of them.
You could make a bigger marketing blunder, I guess, but I sincerely hope you never do. The good news is that it's not to late to fix this one. Offer it for sale for those who can't get it for free. Make money AND good will.
And fire your Marketing department -- immediately.
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Except they are not keeping them from paying customers. Everyone is being given the exact same opportunity here: Go to PAX, get the chance to get the costume. The fact that, for whatever reason people like me and you cannot go does not mean that we are being screwed. It means that we simply cannot fullfill the conditions to get it, which is not the same thing as NCSoft screwing us out of it.
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All that having been said, I would like to see NCNC send 2-3 people from different areas of NCNC (say Ex/LH, Posi/Castle and/or SexyJ/BaBs) to at least one East Coast convention every 3yrs or so. When/if they do so, they can give away "supercodes" that grant 2 out of 3 (or whatever) of the special West Coast convention giveaways.
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I'd love it if they attended a few east coast conventions. Especially SexyJay, he's one Dev I'd love to meet in person.
Mostly using your post to reply to a few sentiments expressed. As such I snipped bits out of your post, but I'm not saying they aint valid points. In fact i tend to agree with what I did snip :|
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- is not a power that makes one player better than another. It won't effect your gameplay at all.
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That is like saying the character creator doesn't effect your gameplay.
I'm surprised how many people playing this game don't realise what your hero looks looks like is part of gameplay.
Costumes are without any doubt in my mind a massive part of CoX.
Why else is there vanguard merits for them, special missions for slots and capes and auras, unlockable parts, expensive recipes etc etc.
Costumes may not effect your DPS, but they are part of gameplay.
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We're talking about a temp power that transforms you into a clone of an NPC. I suppose you could create a character concept around it, but people who say the char creator is so great, this eliminates its power just like Cloak of Darkness, Granite, or Kheldian forms do. So why do people gawk over it, again?
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It is a temp power that is permanment.
I doubt there would be an issue if it ran out.
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Okay, so for sake of argument, why not figure out a way to give it to the masses?
- Let's make it a purchasable by everyone. Well, now you just alienated the people who think NCNC is out to nickel and dime everyone. (The whole "I pay my $15 and they want more?" thing.)
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True.
There would be ingame ways of handing them out though. Seems that is glossed over, it doesnt have top set from start as an exclusive for con goers, it doesnt have to be a nickle and dime idea.
An ingame item, could be earnt ingame.
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- Okay, just give it away then. Well, some people will be upset that their special power is given out. (Remember the venom from people who found out their prestige sprints were given out to everyone?)
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Weren't those people upset as they thought it was exclusive?
So setting up from the start that the costume choices would be granted to everyone at some point wouldnt be dealing with the same issue.
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No matter what they do, it's impossible for them to please everyone. I just don't see this perk being so overwhelming that it warrants the amount of vitriol shown in this thread. It's just... mind boggling to me.
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As is common in these forums, there are people on all sides who refuse to discuss 'nicely'. There are more that have simply expressed they think its a bad idea.
Its very easy to disregard everyone's opinion by dumping them into one batch. Easy but not accurate.
Its also becoming a system of perks, so if it is not complained about now, exclusive ingame items are going to a tiny % of the game playing popluation will become more frequent.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
I'm always amazed that some forum members want to trivialize costume items. As stated by other posters, this is a superhero/villain game and costumes are an extremely important part of this genre. To accent this point, when new costume pieces are released, the lag around the ICON shops is so great that it's hard to get to the shops. I can only speculate why this was given out as a gift to convention goers, and I don't fault NCNC for doing something nice for folks that came to their booths. I will say, however, that this does make many of us feel left out. When I first saw the Hard Suit I really liked it because it look so different from many NPC item as well as the costume items that we have access to. I think what bothers me is that we don't have anything really like it in-game. With the exception of some of the Arachnos helmets, there are no other costume items that have glowie bits to them. The Enforcer costume set is great, but it's not as cool as the Hard Suit -- IMHO. Hopefully, in the future, we'll get more costume pieces like the PPD Hard Suit or set that have similar visual qualities.
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I'm always amazed that some forum members want to trivialize costume items. As stated by other posters, this is a superhero/villain game and costumes are an extremely important part of this genre. To accent this point, when new costume pieces are released, the lag around the ICON shops is so great that it's hard to get to the shops. I can only speculate why this was given out as a gift to convention goers, and I don't fault NCNC for doing something nice for folks that came to their booths. I will say, however, that this does make many of us feel left out. When I first saw the Hard Suit I really liked it because it look so different from many NPC item as well as the costume items that we have access to. I think what bothers me is that we don't have anything really like it in-game. With the exception of some of the Arachnos helmets, there are no other costume items that have glowie bits to them. The Enforcer costume set is great, but it's not as cool as the Hard Suit -- IMHO. Hopefully, in the future, we'll get more costume pieces like the PPD Hard Suit or set that have similar visual qualities.
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It's already been said in this thread that it's not costume parts, it's just a power that makes you LOOK like a PPD Hardsuit character.
It's no more of a costume peice then the Jump Jets Prestige Power is a costume peice.
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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.
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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.
There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.
I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.
I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.
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It's already been said in this thread that it's not costume parts, it's just a power that makes you LOOK like a PPD Hardsuit character.
It's no more of a costume peice then the Jump Jets Prestige Power is a costume peice.
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It doesn't matter if it's a costume set or a power, it's a visual that is desired by many players.
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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.
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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.
There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.
I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.
I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.
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Thanks for saying that better then I can, Arcanaville.
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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.
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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.
There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.
I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.
I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.
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Alright, lets run with your example. Let's say, for the sake of argument, NCSoft decides for marketing reasons to only have Double XP Weekends for logins from the states of California, Oregon and Washington.
So, if you want to experience a Double XP Weekend, from here on out you have to either live in one of those three states or plan a vacation around being in one of those three (along with all the associated expenses) during the Double XP Weekend. And for extra fun, they'll only announce them a few weeks in advance.
If you don't like it, tough. Life's not fair and you have no reasonable reason to complain because it rewards people who are helping the economy close to their HQ (which is good for the HQ) and shows "love" for the people who choose to live close by. You have just as much opportunity to move to one of those three states or make sure you're in one at the exact right time as anyone else so, by the definaition of those for these con giveaways, it's completely an utterly fair.
Should NC actually make such a marketing decision, I predict widespread fallout, which is why they won't do it. It would anger to many people. However, the costume/temp power crowd, we'll they're expendable, too small to matter. NC knows this move angers and disappoints part of their population, they just flat out don't care, that part is too small to worry over.
Is that how things should be? Who knows. NC is a business. They do what they do to make money (preferably lots of it). They don't care if what they do is fair until enough people decide it isn't and it starts to hurt their bottom line. Then they care, but only then. Everything else is just background noise they can ignore. That's not evil, it's just business as usual.
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They're giving away something fun, and getting to give it away face to face. I'm sure that's actually fun for (some of) them. And it's fun for (most of) the people that get it, too.
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It's Fun. I get that. It sounds like a fun place to work at and it sounds like a fun group to do business with -especially if you can hang out and have a beer with them.
But when you have competitors about to enter your segment of the marketplace, most companies gear up to be more customer focused and receptive to the needs of their player base.
Because one of the hardest transitions a company can make is when they lose their monopoly on a segment of the marketplace. It is absolutely make or break time for any company, and this most recent decision seems straight out of 2005.
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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.
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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.
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You'll note that I didn't say that you said it, I said that you implied it. Perhaps that wasn't your intent, but I hope you can see how a reasonable person could draw that inference.
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There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.
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Nor did I say any of that. Anyone who makes such claims is, I'm willing to agree, being unreasonable.
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I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.
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That doesn't seem analogous. For a parallel to hold, it seems like marketing would have to schedule such a reward at a time when they had full knowledge 99+% of the player base would not be able to take part.
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I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance.
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I think it's equally easy to stand behind the assertion that if a meaningful number of players are disappointed in the same decision, someone probably did make an error, if only in underestimating the reactions of the player base.
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If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives.
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Which is not to say that it's the only way to do so, or the best way. We can toss the word "reasonable" at one another all day long, and in the end, things will be what they will be. The decision will be made and the game will go on.
There are reasonable people on both sides of this discussion. There are also unreasonable people on both sides. I suspect that the folks in charge of making decisions have made note of the things that work within their schema, and will end up doing what they deem is best.
In what I'm certain will be a reasonable way.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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So not only am I annoyed that they are giving something fun ingame ONLY to those able to go and those who just can't make it a convention (like me) are frozen out...I can't see the benefit they're getting from it.
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Fun.
They're giving away something fun, and getting to give it away face to face. I'm sure that's actually fun for (some of) them. And it's fun for (most of) the people that get it, too.
It's just part of the big party.
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