Discussion: PAX- Seattle Aug 29-31st
By
4_Thirty_5,
Posted on: 2008-04-25 17:46 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
I wish I had an opportunity to get up there for PAX... It'd also give me a chance to see one of my best friends in that region. Alas, I'll be stuck down here in San Diego for awhile and can't make it.
If anyone who can make it want's to give me their PPD Hardsuit code though, I have an unused Freakshow code I'd be willing to trade...
Dear NCsoft, if you go through with this shutdown you've guaranteed you'll not see another dime from me on any project you put out, ever.
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The one East-Coast convention that SHOULD appeal most to them attending....
It is the LARGEST convention of ANY type in the South-East United States.
It is a combination of TWO conventions, one of which is a specific COMIC convention.
It has a LARGE super-hero/villian presence and interest.
It is centrally located in the South East United States, with a large metropolitan area and major travel hub.
And players from the region have been asking them to attend it for the last 4+ years.
Dragon*Con/Atlanta Comics Expo in Atlanta, GA.
With an 8 hour drive or less, you can reach Atlanta from as far as Northern Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, and the nearer parts of adjoining states (Florida, West Virginia, Ohio, Louisiana,maybe others).
Hartsfield International Airport is a major hub, and many commuter flights are available from many areas throughout the eastern half of the US for a relatively low fare. (Chicago to Atlanta, checked today, for DragonCon dates: 5 available in the $230-$260 range, ROUND TRIP.)
Why hasn't NCSoft attended the largest (over 30,000 attendees last year! That's head-count, not 'bodies per day' that many conventions, including ComicCon, use! It FILLS the FIVE large hotels it occupies. Using the BpD measure, D*C exceeds 120k), most centrally located (for its size in the SouthEast), most appropriate (Media & Film, Comics, Sci-Fi, Fantasy) convention?
A really good question....
CuppaJo: **waves wand - you are mesmerized by the shiney bouncing Positron**
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Oh for heavan's sake, it's a stupid costume. Does it make you character fly faster? Does it make a Blaster shoot farther? Does it make a Brutes muscles shinier? No, so quite %^&ching or stop playing.
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Thank god it doesn't. I don't like WoW.
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And now I have to quote YOU for truth. 
No one (that I have yet read) is saying this breaks the game. I'm not going to quit over this. But I am tired of being yelled at for expressing an opinion. Isn' that what forums are for, in part? Yes, to ask questions and share information, but also to voice opinions? As I mentioned to someone else, "What, I have to be vomiting rainbows or keep my mouth shut?" We are expressing displeasure in the hopes that circumstances will change. We're not making threats, we're not being trolls or starting flame wars. People are being civil and, once again, just expressing their disappointment. And while you have just as much right to tell us to shut up, at least *WE* are not being rude.
Er, just so you know, the comic con in san diego fills a 120 thousand capacity building for 5 days in a row. 30k for Dragon con is like 20 years ago for the sd con. Sorry.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
Looking over the middle of this I'm glad this event and power is bringing out the best in people :P Come ON, it's just a temp power not a costume :P
I will be happily running Ourb. flashbacks whilst you wineand dine with Ex and Warwitch and Recluse and all that fun stuff, I'd love to be there, but them is the breaks :< Although Ghost Widow would be nice to have a drink with o.0
-C.A
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QR
Thank you for the continued feedback. We are listening and sending it along to the proper channels.
In the end we wanted to create a special gift for those folks that come out to our booth and show us love. Hopefully it is something we can continue to do as we grow and reach out to shows and live gatherings in the future.
Regards,
Ex
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Giving something like this away for free and not making it available to anyone else aside from some Ebay scalpers when you could easily sell it as an in-game option does seem like a textbook case of pure idiocy. A pity its not legal to line your promo people up against the wall and have them shot for all of the money they can cost you over poor choices like this, however, it's your business. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Oh for heavan's sake, it's a stupid costume. Does it make you character fly faster? Does it make a Blaster shoot farther?
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If this game only had powers your points would be more valid.
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Does it make a Brutes muscles shinier? No
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Um, sorta....
Can we get an event in NYC? I mean can I get a whoop-whoop for the NYC gamers?
http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/
The replies here speak for themselves.
It's great that there are a few generous souls who wish well on those who are lucky/wealthy/have-enough-vacation-time to pick up this gift. I don't begrudge those people, either. If I was at PAX, I'd pick up one, too.
However, yes, every time I see one of those costumes in-game, I will think ill of the company who gave it to some paying customers and kept it from this paying customer -- me. That's just the truth. CoH does a lot of things right, but this is not one of them.
You could make a bigger marketing blunder, I guess, but I sincerely hope you never do. The good news is that it's not to late to fix this one. Offer it for sale for those who can't get it for free. Make money AND good will.
And fire your Marketing department -- immediately.
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Er, just so you know, the comic con in san diego fills a 120 thousand capacity building for 5 days in a row. 30k for Dragon con is like 20 years ago for the sd con. Sorry.
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You didn't read either my post, or the actual data at the con sites, or look at the data for the SDCC.
To wit:
San-Diego ComicCon 2007: Bodies Per Day attendance = 125,000 over 4 days (July 24-July 27)
(that equates to 31,250 attendees attending all 4 days)
Dragon*Con/ACE 2007: 30,000+ attendees for 4 days = 120,000+ Bodies Per Day Attendance.
They are comparable in size.
Also, just so you know....the "120k capacity" figure for the San Diego Convention Center is wrong. The max capacity with all function space set up to maximize seating (usually theater configuration) would be around 80k (50k of that is the exhibition hall), and they most certainly did NOT have the exhibition hall set up in such a fashion. The upper level alone (where most of the function space resides only provides space for about 25,000 attendees, mostly in the Sails Pavillion which holds a max of 8700 and rooms 6 & 20, which in max config would give another 7000). Oh, and the rooms are RARELY set up completely empty/theater mode, since it isn't conducive to the functions held in them. Expect 50%-75% of that as useable seating/space.
It's not unusual for people to over-estimate both attendance (due to the bodies-per-day figure most conventions use to inflate the numbers to be more impressive) and space considerations (since convention centers also use the 'max' numbers for advertising.)
Dragon*Con/ACE is about the same size as the San Diego Comic Con, despite what the marketing speak tries to tell you.
In your own words:
"Sorry."
CuppaJo: **waves wand - you are mesmerized by the shiney bouncing Positron**
HypnotizerZero, Psyche-Delia, Twilight Samurai, Burning Rubber, Ignitrode & more...on Virtue.
AMD x2 4600+/7950GTKO/2Gb PC6400/Win2kPro
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The replies here speak for themselves.
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Then I'll offer my view point that is counter to most of the ones in this thread. What they're giving out:
- is not a power that makes one player better than another. It won't effect your gameplay at all.
- is not a badge, because there is a portion of the population who are badge hunters, so an exclusive one is bad mojo. (Though, they do exist already.)
- is not a set of exclusive costume pieces you can mix and match.
We're talking about a temp power that transforms you into a clone of an NPC. I suppose you could create a character concept around it, but people who say the char creator is so great, this eliminates its power just like Cloak of Darkness, Granite, or Kheldian forms do. So why do people gawk over it, again?
Okay, so for sake of argument, why not figure out a way to give it to the masses?
- Let's make it a purchasable by everyone. Well, now you just alienated the people who think NCNC is out to nickel and dime everyone. (The whole "I pay my $15 and they want more?" thing.)
- Okay, just give it away then. Well, some people will be upset that their special power is given out. (Remember the venom from people who found out their prestige sprints were given out to everyone?)
No matter what they do, it's impossible for them to please everyone. I just don't see this perk being so overwhelming that it warrants the amount of vitriol shown in this thread. It's just... mind boggling to me.
(As for the complaint of some people getting more out of their $15 than you, it's already true for people who play more than those who don't have time to.)
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We're talking about a temp power that transforms you into a clone of an NPC. I suppose you could create a character concept around it, but people who say the char creator is so great, this eliminates its power just like Cloak of Darkness, Granite, or Kheldian forms do. So why do people gawk over it, again?
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Or ... some of us might have already created PPD characters - for example, I have "Detective Keyes", a Psi/Mental Blaster, on Virtue ... and I've had him since i12 went live; I'd be treating a PPD HArdshell "not-so-temporary" power as a sixth costume slot.
Oh, as for your two solutions? You missed one: Send someone to a convention that is somewhere OTHER than the West Coast.
I mean, come on ... webcomic artists (who survive on income from their webcomic alone) can afford to attend every convention under the sun all year long, but a global corporation can't afford to send a schlub or two cross-country once or twice a year ...?
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The replies here speak for themselves.
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They certainly do. They tell me that some people have unimaginably unrealistic expectations.
I'm not sure what I could say I didn't already say in the Freakshow thread, except to reiterate that I believe personally that the vast overwhelming majority of reasonable players do not begrudge NC for making exclusive cool giveaways during promotional events.
While you should be responsive to your customer base, I think you also need to decide if you intend to be a slave to their most extreme demands. The banning of exclusive promotional giveaways in marketing campaigns is in my opinion an extreme demand: it would be an extreme demand from any customer base of any business. Someone mentioned "saving face" as if this was some massive blunder they need to correct. But collapsing on this issue wouldn't save face in my own eyes personally: it would cost them greatly. It would imply that the future of the game I play can be held hostage much more trivially than I think is warranted.
While you're factoring in the opinions of all of your other customers, that's the opinion of this one specific customer. This is not simply a choice between one option that angers some customers, and another option that doesn't. Its a choice between one option that angers some customers, and another option that costs you respect with a different set of customers. I have no idea how large either segment is, but they do both exist.
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QR
Thank you for the continued feedback. We are listening and sending it along to the proper channels.
In the end we wanted to create a special gift for those folks that come out to our booth and show us love. Hopefully it is something we can continue to do as we grow and reach out to shows and live gatherings in the future.
Regards,
Ex
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Any chance of these perma costume temp powers thingies be available through Veteran Rewards later down the road?
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We're talking about a temp power that transforms you into a clone of an NPC.
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Actually, it's a permanent power that grants you a costume currently unavailable to all paying customers which allows you to play a character who wears the armor of the city's police department -- which is an excellent costume to have in a superhero roleplaying game set in a city. Plus, many think it's more attractive than other costume options currently available to paying customers.
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Okay, so for sake of argument, why not figure out a way to give it to the masses?
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That shouldn't be an argument, that should be the way that a company does business: providing customers with product while keeping them happy and loyal.
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No matter what they do, it's impossible for them to please everyone.
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No company can set pleasing everyone as a goal. Every company must set pleasing most of their customers and potential customers as a goal, otherwise how do they stay in business?
Those who don't care about this issue and/or who don't understand why others do care will not have their lives affected by this costume piece being for sale to those not able to attend the con. Plus, it would be more profit for NCSoft, which means, ultimately, a better game for everyone. This is a better marketing strategy than giving something to only 1% of your customers for free that many of your customers would happily pay for.
My subscription money is just as good as anyone else's and I expect to be treated equally. If that's not an issue for you, that's great. No need to be bothered that it's an issue for others. That's what boggles my mind.
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The replies here speak for themselves.
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They certainly do. They tell me that some people have unimaginably unrealistic expectations.
I'm not sure what I could say I didn't already say in the Freakshow thread, except to reiterate that I believe personally that the vast overwhelming majority of reasonable players do not begrudge NC for making exclusive cool giveaways during promotional events.
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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with. Reasonable people can reasonably be disappointed in a decision that locks them out of a permanent in-game reward. Now, a reasonable person won't then shout from the rooftops that the game is dying, that they're taking their money and going elsewhere, or that the people responsible for the decision have no regard for their customer base (I don't believe in or endorse any of these statements, as far as they go), but implying that it's unreasonable to dislike the decision is simply not fair.
Especially if the solution is as simple as, "Well, the code exists. So we keep these exclusive for 6 months after the appropriate con, then make them available for purchase at the store at a cost of $5 per permanent temp power costume."
Problem solved. The folks who get the shiny have it as something that's unique for six months, the folks who really want it can exercise a little patience and then buy it. Seems win-win to me, and prevents $150-200 scalping on eBay.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
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Or ... some of us might have already created PPD characters - for example, I have "Detective Keyes", a Psi/Mental Blaster, on Virtue ... and I've had him since i12 went live; I'd be treating a PPD HArdshell "not-so-temporary" power as a sixth costume slot.
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If this perk was never offered, would that be more acceptable? It would be "fair," no?
What if your detective was female? (I'm assuming it's not.) Transforming into a male wouldn't be nearly as appealing, would it?
You what, if they had made the Rularuu Broadsword one of these perks and such that my BS/Regen couldn't attain it, I might be disappointed (since it fits her perfectly), but I would hardly be the things mentioned in this thread. (Along the lines of "your marketing people are idiots, fire them.") I put quite a bit of effort into the characters I create too, they're not just generic heoes because I wanted to play set X and Y.
As I said, I do not understand all the hatred shown here. It's just too minor of an issue.
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Oh, as for your two solutions? You missed one: Send someone to a convention that is somewhere OTHER than the West Coast.
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Let's say they send someone to New York. Someone in Florida doesn't have the same access as someone in NY, so it's unfair, hold something closer to that. Then the Midwest would complain. Then states in the Midwest, etc. What about Canada? Australia? It's impossible for them to please / be "fair" to everyone. People will be excluded no matter what. Does that mean they should never go to cons at all?
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I mean, come on ... webcomic artists (who survive on income from their webcomic alone) can afford to attend every convention under the sun all year long, but a global corporation can't afford to send a schlub or two cross-country once or twice a year ...?
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I'm not even going to pretend to know the costs or logistics of NCNC or a comic artist in an event like this. You can ask them.
I like the $5/power-costume idea above.
I wonder if the devs don't want to see large amounts of PPD hardsuits as players in the game, so they're giving them out in tiny amounts.
Wrong, my friend, having attended the comic con for 27 years now I can say that your number crunching is *entirely inaccurate*.
The comic con building holds 125 thousand people. That was how many there were *in the building* when it got shut by the fire marshal 2 years ago. Period. They couldn't let anyone inside, because there was *no more room*.
That was the peak capacity, all 4 days this year was 120 thousand *attendees*, not "total appearances over the weekend."
They sell only 4 day passes now, because *people attend all four days* and not just one day like they used to. I'm very sorry but your information is completely and totally off the mark.
Have you attended San Diego?
This here is a picture from the *preview night* line, which contains enough people to choke a 20 foot wide hall and that line extended far, far beyond this on both sides for 2 hours. I would guess at 80 thousand people being there for Wednesday night's opening.
it's definitely not "30k per day" over time. I'm very sorry. You're wrong.
Every single website I visited had the same number: 125 thousand attendees - that number is NOT broken down per day, that's the number which the convention center HOLDS. Take a look down the list there for attendance records.
It's being held in the largest convention center in North America FOR A REASON.
Dragon con's attendance history, on the other hand, is very meek in comparison.
It's not that they're manipulating numbers. It's that there really, honestly are 120 thousand people *a day* at San Diego. If you'd ever been there, you would know that.
Now, all that said, I don't think it's wrong to ask that NC attend Dragon Con. However, there isn't much crossover in their audience for this game - their others perhaps, but not City of Heroes.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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They tell me that some people have unimaginably unrealistic expectations.
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Expecting a company to be responsive to their customers is how business works. Expecting a company to treat all their customers equally is as real-world realistic as it gets.
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I believe personally that the vast overwhelming majority of reasonable players do not begrudge NC for making exclusive cool giveaways during promotional events.
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I believe the majority of their customers object to those giveaways being something in-game that are not made available to them. The list of possible real-world giveaways (t-shirts, hats, etc.) is nearly endless. Why make it something in-game that most of your customers would want but could never get because it entails real-world obstacles? Or why not sell it to those customers if they're willing to pay for it? Why would a business not want to make money?
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Someone mentioned "saving face" as if this was some massive blunder they need to correct. But collapsing on this issue wouldn't save face in my own eyes personally: it would cost them greatly. It would imply that the future of the game I play can be held hostage much more trivially than I think is warranted.
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So it's wrong for customers to be expected to be treated equally, but it's "reasonable" to regard a company as an entity that "collapses" when it responds to its customers and fixes a mistake? I assume that means you're still driving a mid-70s Pinto and that your children play with lead toys from China.
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This is not simply a choice between one option that angers some customers, and another option that doesn't.
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Yeah, it really is. I'm guessing you're not completely alone in your opinion, but I'd be surprised (okay, horrified) if it was shared by too many others.
They made a mistake. They can fix it. They should.
The obvious fix would make them more money. More money means a better game for everyone. They should make that fix.
Not fixing it makes lots of people unhappy. Fixing it means everybody wins. I vote for fixing it.
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Actually, it's a permanent power that grants you a costume currently unavailable to all paying customers which allows you to play a character who wears the armor of the city's police department -- which is an excellent costume to have in a superhero roleplaying game set in a city. Plus, many think it's more attractive than other costume options currently available to paying customers.
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A very limited costume. It's male only, not huge or female. You can't have pale skin, or blue, or green. Your proportions (height, leg slider, shoulders) are set. You lose all the customization the character creator has to look like an NPC.
You can make a character to work with it, don't get me wrong. It's just very limiting in the same way Granite and Kheld forms are.
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Those who don't care about this issue and/or who don't understand why others do care will not have their lives affected by this costume piece being for sale to those not able to attend the con.
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Certainly not, but the people who feel NC is nickel and diming them will care.
See, if someone were to post saying "I'm disappointed, this would be perfect for my character. Please consider alternate methods of making this available." I'd say nothing. All the doom, flaming, name calling, is just absurd.
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No need to be bothered that it's an issue for others. That's what boggles my mind.
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Read the above. The majority of people here are being, how shall we say, less than constructive about this. I'm really getting annoyed that every single thing NCSoft brings out all the negative you see in this thread. It's very tiring and, honestly, reminding me a lot of posts on the WoW boards.
I miss when the majority of the posts here were constructive. They seem so far between anymore.
<QR>
Hey Ex Libris,
Can we get a new thread to keep discussing the Meet and Greet?
This one has clearly been relegated to the ninth plane of hell with all the whine and flames.
Thanks.
Love and Kisses,
Cobaltix
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Okay, I didn't read through all of this thread, I just want to say my part based on what I did see...
When they gave away the Freaktank power, I was a bit upset but I got over it. I decided it was a cool idea.
However... At the time I told someone "At least it's not the PPD Enforcer costume. THAT would upset me." That's the one that was loved by so many people that they came out with the "Enforcer" armor that somewhat recreates part of the style of that NPC costume.
Giving away the one that so many people wanted, and in such a way that most people can't get it? Ouch. I'll live with it, but I'm not going to pretend that I like it.
And while I'd like to think I'm more mature than this, I know that if I see someone running around in that costume outside of the Halloween event, it's going to make me alot more tempted to tell them where they can shove their plasma rifle.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
BTW, part of it, is that these are permanent. And will continue to be permanent for any characters they create in the future. If these were temp powers...even if these were somewhat better temp powers...it would still be annoying, but at least it would only be for a period, and at some time, things will be back as they were.
And also...I'm just really confused about the WHY of this. Trade shows and conventions are to reassure current customers (and maybe get some more money out of them) and attract new customers. For new customers, this is about useless (other than giving you something you can sell on E-Bay), they don't know who these costumes are about, and it doesn't give a reason to pay $15/month. For existing customers...how does it reassure more than the chance to talk to rednames, see that they are pushing forward for new people, and so forth. Is there ANYONE who was thinking "Well, I was considering cancelling, maybe going to Brand Ecchhhh when they open beta--but now that I can look like a PPC Hardsuit, they've got me for life!"
So not only am I annoyed that they are giving something fun ingame ONLY to those able to go and those who just can't make it a convention (like me) are frozen out...I can't see the benefit they're getting from it.
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Oh good another free something I cannot have due to geography or travel issues.