Discussion: PAX- Seattle Aug 29-31st

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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Nashville please thank you

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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Nashville please thank you

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YES. PLEASE.

I have to say that I'm not terribly happy with in-game rewards, even inconsequential ones, being given out at real-life events. I'm not going to rant against it or lose any sleep over it, but the availability of these things is being constrained in an extreme fashion. If the NCNC crew wants to show appreciation for fan turnout at conventions and such, they should hand out T-shirts, bumper stickers or such.

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I have to say that I'm not terribly happy with in-game rewards, even inconsequential ones, being given out at real-life events. I'm not going to rant against it or lose any sleep over it, but the availability of these things is being constrained in an extreme fashion. If the NCNC crew wants to show appreciation for fan turnout at conventions and such, they should hand out T-shirts, bumper stickers or such.

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Hey Ex Libris,

Can we get a new thread to keep discussing the Meet and Greet?

This one has clearly been relegated to the ninth plane of hell with all the whine and flames.


Thanks.

Love and Kisses,
Cobaltix

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Speaking of which, was there ever a final decision on where to meet up? I confess to have skimmed over the 200+ posts of kvetching over a costume power.

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I'm having a tough time finding a venue that will host us for dinner without doing any contract negotiations.

If anyone has suggestions I'm all over it, Rock Bottom Brewery just let me know that we can try and stop in that night but they will not hold the room for us.

Thoughts?

Ex

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I'm checking on an option. More information later tomorrow.

- B.

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They're giving away something fun, and getting to give it away face to face. I'm sure that's actually fun for (some of) them. And it's fun for (most of) the people that get it, too.

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It's Fun. I get that. It sounds like a fun place to work at and it sounds like a fun group to do business with -especially if you can hang out and have a beer with them.

But when you have competitors about to enter your segment of the marketplace, most companies gear up to be more customer focused and receptive to the needs of their player base.

Because one of the hardest transitions a company can make is when they lose their monopoly on a segment of the marketplace. It is absolutely make or break time for any company, and this most recent decision seems straight out of 2005.

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The whole competition thing is very good for this game from a player standpoint, because it will bring about changes that are in our favor in the long run or Co* will die. Just because they don't want to make money off of something there is clearly a market for doesn't mean that such an idea might not change soon enough.

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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Nashville please thank you

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Hmm, drink BAB under the table. I would be up for that.

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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to bad that July is over with cause it would have been sweet if NC chose to visit the capital of all 50 states as a patriotic motion and that would make well allot more people happy :P

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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They are paying 15 dollars to play the game. That doesen't, however, mean that they will have access to anything and everything.

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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They are paying 15 dollars to play the game. That doesen't, however, mean that they will have access to anything and everything.

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I don't believe they should be denied access to something based on their bank account.

I'd be perfectly happy with "real" swag being thrown about. But in-game swag... not so much.

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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They are paying 15 dollars to play the game. That doesen't, however, mean that they will have access to anything and everything.

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Didn't you get the memo? It also includes a strong sense of entitlement to every product that the game spawns... For free.

I just can't even understand why, if it's something that they want to reward those who *show up live*.... The thing isn't giving out a glowing golden aura that says, "this is for everyone who went to X place oh and the people who cried the loudest on the forums". It's a simple toggle goodie as a treat for those who DO spend the time, money and effort to get to the meets. If you don't spend the time, money or effort, why exactly do you deserve something that others DID? They're not FOR everyone, that's why they're "special".

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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They are paying 15 dollars to play the game. That doesen't, however, mean that they will have access to anything and everything.

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I don't believe they should be denied access to something based on their bank account.

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I could argue that people already ARE being denied access to something based on their bank account (IE, access to the game if they don't shell out money every month).

Indeed. I am denied my multiple account access, once I had several now I struggle with 2 and have allowed one of those to go by the wayside for a bit. I love having access to both accounts, because you can trade safely and such.

But am I entitled to THAT because I've been paying for one? No, just exactly what I pay for - access. *shrug* It's not denying anyone anything. It's rewarding the few who do something special themselves, with a cute trinket as a reminder.

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So, explain this to me then:

Why is okay to hand out things like exclusive bumper stickers, T-Shirts, and other items, but not in-game options like badges, costume options, or non-game affecting temp powers?

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Because NCsoft customers pay a monthly fee for access to COX badges, costumes, and temp-powers. If this was a T-Shirt of the Month club, then customers may be upset at being excluded from an available T-Shirt.

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They are paying 15 dollars to play the game. That doesen't, however, mean that they will have access to anything and everything.

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Didn't you get the memo? It also includes a strong sense of entitlement to every product that the game spawns... For free.

I just can't even understand why, if it's something that they want to reward those who *show up live*.... The thing isn't giving out a glowing golden aura that says, "this is for everyone who went to X place oh and the people who cried the loudest on the forums". It's a simple toggle goodie as a treat for those who DO spend the time, money and effort to get to the meets. If you don't spend the time, money or effort, why exactly do you deserve something that others DID? They're not FOR everyone, that's why they're "special".

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You can always tell when one side has taken a position they can't defend.

The fact of the matter is, NC wants to do this because they think it'll foster community relations.

As we've seen, it doesn't do that.

The usual suspects pop up, get hostile and insult people with blanket statements all the while not really listening to the other side, the conversation degrades, the community gets a bit more hostile. Then the whole thing blows over and we wait the next misstep by NC marketing to see if it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Then the usual suspects show up, get hostile, insult people with blanket statements all the while not listening to the other side, the conversation degrades, the community gets a little more hostile, and we wait for it to blow over again.

There's actually 5 "sides" to this, not that many in the the "pro" camp have noticed. There's the people for it, the people against it entirely, the people who just want a fair shake at it, the people who could care less and the people who are simply ignorant of the whole thing. The "no" camp and the "fair shake" camp realize this, the "pro" camp is thus far mostly oblivious and lumping them all together. That's how one knows that much of the "pro" camp isn't listening and doesn't have a leg to stand on, they're just recycling flames with any actual points they have getting lost in their hostility.

The same happened in the discussion of the Freak Tank SDCC discussion. The same will happen when they give away the next costume power.

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You can always tell when one side has taken a position they can't defend.

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Pretty much. So why do you continue to take that side?

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Indeed. I am denied my multiple account access, once I had several now I struggle with 2 and have allowed one of those to go by the wayside for a bit. I love having access to both accounts, because you can trade safely and such.

But am I entitled to THAT because I've been paying for one? No, just exactly what I pay for - access. *shrug* It's not denying anyone anything. It's rewarding the few who do something special themselves, with a cute trinket as a reminder.

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It's not the actual shelling out of the $700 plane ticket and whatever that bothers me. It's the fact that, invariably, people who do NOT actually PLAY CoH will get these passes, and proceed to put them up on E-bay to take advantage of the people who COULDN'T make it there.

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Indeed. I am denied my multiple account access, once I had several now I struggle with 2 and have allowed one of those to go by the wayside for a bit. I love having access to both accounts, because you can trade safely and such.

But am I entitled to THAT because I've been paying for one? No, just exactly what I pay for - access. *shrug* It's not denying anyone anything. It's rewarding the few who do something special themselves, with a cute trinket as a reminder.

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It's not the actual shelling out of the $700 plane ticket and whatever that bothers me. It's the fact that, invariably, people who do NOT actually PLAY CoH will get these passes, and proceed to put them up on E-bay to take advantage of the people who COULDN'T make it there.

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And I fully understand this complaint. But as I've said earlier in the thread, the solution isn't to not give things out, it's to put in better safeguards so you CAN'T have that one idiot going in there, taking six or seven codes, and shilling them on E-Bay.

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You can always tell when one side has taken a position they can't defend.

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Pretty much. So why do you continue to take that side?

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What we have here is an example of what's known as "quotemining." It's a well known tactic used by dishonest people who know their argument is false.

Quite telling of just how bad of a time the side using it is having and that the person using it knows they don't have a leg to stand on with their argument.

Having ultra-rare or unique items that only a handful of players will ever be able to obtain is a really BAD idea.

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I generally have a lot of respect for your opinions, but implying that anyone who dislikes the decision made by marketing in this instance is somehow being unreasonable is simply something I can't agree with.

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I never said that. I said I believe (and still believe) that the majority of reasonable players don't begrudge NC for creating exclusive marketing giveaways.

There are lots of decisions that either the dev team or NCsoft in general make that I either disagree with, or which go against my personal preferences (which are two different things). But thats not the same thing as saying I believe they are idiotic, incompetent, ignorant, unresponsive, or poor decision-makers every time they make a decision I disagree with.

I'm disappointed I missed the last double XP weekend. I do not believe NCsoft had an obligation to check with my schedule first. I can be disappointed in something without thinking that that fact alone makes the source of my disappointment deficient.

I also stand by my assertion that it is unreasonable to presume that being disappointed in a circumstance carries with it the presumption that someone made an error to create that circumstance. If I end up not getting the costume option, I'll be disappointed. It won't change my mind that NCsoft is being completely reasonable in its approach to marketing exclusives. I'm saying that with the full knowledge that there is very little probability of NCsoft being at a public venue anywhere within two thousand miles of me.

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I'm game to hold an expo in your neck of the woods...

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You wouldn't want to come to ConnntiCon (Can't spell it to save my life) would you? That'd be really cool, and something that I could afford to go to.

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You can always tell when one side has taken a position they can't defend.

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Pretty much. So why do you continue to take that side?

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What we have here is an example of what's known as "quotemining." It's a well known tactic used by dishonest people who know their argument is false.

Quite telling of just how bad of a time the side using it is having and that the person using it knows they don't have a leg to stand on with their argument.

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Really now? How am I dishonest? Oh wait, that's right... it's because you don't agree with my opinion. So, rather then, y'know, actually taking into consideration my stance you look for ways to just blow me off. What's next, going to go for my post count or my Registration date?

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Having ultra-rare or unique items that only a handful of players will ever be able to obtain is a really BAD idea.

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Like Anniversery Badges or Bug Hunter?

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The banning of exclusive promotional giveaways in marketing campaigns is in my opinion an extreme demand: it would be an extreme demand from any customer base of any business.

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I was totally unaware that we were talking about completely and utterly doing away with this type of thing. I'm upset about what they're giving away and it wont be available to anyone else, not that they're giving it away.