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For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.
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Will this be true of NPCs (Nemesis Lieutenants), as well?
If so, I can accept this.
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Just to make sure this is kept on the front burner.
Fix both sides of the fence when you fix it please.
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This is all in prep for reworking the LRSF so that it becomes more in line with the difficulty of the STF, right?
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Seeing as how it's pretty common to defeat the LRSF without either Shivans or stacked Vengeance, I'm not sure I see the relevance.
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Common occurence for who, UG? Large SGs using multiple kins, rads and stoners?
Nothing has changed with the LRSF. You either have the stock group makeup, or the demands are made that everyone gets shivans and nukes.
I saw a call over PinnBadges the other night for getting shivans because some foursome wasn't managing a basic TF.
If the populace has sunk so low that Shivans are being used in the most mundane of situations, then Shivans need to go.
At the very least block their use outside of PvP zones.
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Bill Im going to have to ask you to stick to posting in the tech forum 
(kidding).
Seriously though what sucks abou this is the difficulty will get ramped up and those of us who didnt run the LRSF 5x a day taking advantage of the exploits.... Well we are at a disadvantage in PvP which I care about immensely.
This TF was too hard. I wasnt able to get an invite to an LRSF before vengeance stacking and Shivans. Thats not PuGs but from my own Villain group of 6 months (since joined a new VG). Why no invites? I had the audacity of making an elec/elec brute. Crappy single target damage and not as survivable as stones.
Anyways I know you were talking about bringing the difficulty in line with the hero side tf. Hopefully that means a bit easier.
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For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.
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See, I'll be okay with this PvP change affecting PvE, so long as it means that the fargin' Nemesis vengeance won't stack. Please say it's so?
Basically too many 50's to count, but I'm generally a brute/scrapper/tank kind of guy.
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hows bout jus make it so vengence is a self buff! then it cant be stacked noway! problem solved
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Wow. That was easy. Nice fix Cuch.
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Well the easy fix is to prevent being able to use vengence in PvP zones.
When this power is 'fixed' though, does it mean that nemesis will also get their vengence 'fixed' to the same point? I think more people have complained longer about nemesis exploiting vengence to make their encounters impossible than people complaining about using it in PvP.
Just my 2 cents... which is Australian so it doesnt even get to be 1 cent in these forums...
So next, to fix inferno, you can't use it in pvp.
problem solved?
Sorry to say but I'm used to being denied the right to use powers.
Like every time when I'm in the arena, cant use my nemesis staff. Whats wrong with using the nemesis staff? I dont know. Its just 1 power I cant seem to use.. maybe its because I'm unlucky?
So why not extend the idea onto all the powers that a minority of people dont like? Vengence today, clear mind tomorrow, granite armor next week.
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Like every time when I'm in the arena, cant use my nemesis staff. Whats wrong with using the nemesis staff? I dont know. Its just 1 power I cant seem to use.. maybe its because I'm unlucky?
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No temp powers from outside the arena function there, the vet reward powers are "permenant" temp powers and are not allowed.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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Like every time when I'm in the arena, cant use my nemesis staff. Whats wrong with using the nemesis staff? I dont know. Its just 1 power I cant seem to use.. maybe its because I'm unlucky?
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No temp powers from outside the arena function there, the vet reward powers are "permenant" temp powers and are not allowed.
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That sucks on many levels. The main level is the fun level. I think the nem staff has to be the best, all purpose weapon in the game. I've only had it for 2 months now, but it is instrumental in most of my PvE encounters.
I use it the way Dr Who uses his sonic screw driver: from picking locks in bank doors and reading news papers in mayham missions, saving team mates when I'm tanking (taunt aint what it used to be), to pulling single minions out of mobs to thin out their numbers. And every time it knocks someone down, a hero is allowed to be revived in the hospital. Its that good!
And not having it in the arena makes me look at my build and power choices every time - Did I really need to choose taunt, or recall friend..?
If I participated in the arena more often then my team-friendly powers would be gone in place for more attack powers to complete my attack cycles. There is nothing worse than having 10 seconds of nothing to do.
I'm not sure if the power can be classed as a temporary power because I use it so often it makes my super jump look brand new.
It might be nice if there were an arena option to allow temp powers, but I think a default not letting the temps be used is pretty clearly the superior option.
There are a lot of very powerful temps (wedding band, shivans, warburg nuke, mini heavies, snowbeasts, warwolf whistles, amy johnson) and matches could be easily decided by just who has more of them.
If as you claim the Nem staff is the "best, all purpose weapon in the game," wouldn't it be really unfair for you to win arena matches simply because you've been playing the game 3 months longer than someone else? Letting vet reward powers in the arena would pretty clearly be unfair, and I'm glad they're not permitted.
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There are a lot of very powerful temps (wedding band, shivans, warburg nuke, mini heavies, snowbeasts, warwolf whistles, amy johnson) and matches could be easily decided by just who has more of them.
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thats how its is now with Veng lol
except vengeance is a tactic used during the match that requires some practice to pull off. Temp powers (a lot like pre-match vengeance) have no risk, and use things outside of the actual match to decide who wins.
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When the LRSF had level 54 heroes, we routinely won it with a very specialized team in less then 90 minutes without stacking vengance.
Now that the heroes are lvl 52, I completely agree with Maximum in that you need an aggro holding brute and a couple of corruptors but you don't need stacked vengance in order to win the event by any means.
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Actually what would end up happening is we would go back to the old system. Unless you are a stone brute or a corrupter you wont get a priority spot, youll get one of the few (1 or 2) pity spots. Doms, stalkers and non stone brutes will have a hard time gettin on the the LRSF (possibly MMs, I rarely see any MMs on this TF except for poison).
It certainly made me angry to find the largest VG on Champion (at the time I was in Galactic Empire) was never able to fit my brute into an LRSF (pre vengeanc stacking). Not even a pity spot (they were to afraid of failure).
Noone is willing to risk a 1 hour TF turning into a 2-3 hour failure. Eliminating vengeance stacking, and not adjusting the LRSF level of difficutly just leaves most players out of the mix.
Being that I dont have a PC capable of a Hami raid, and hate crafting/shafting in video games (yay I9's IO's)... This doesnt look good for me enjoying the toons I finally leveled to 50 and the end game content.
The LRSF is easy...without Veng or the temp powers L2P
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The LRSF is easy...without Veng or the temp powers L2P
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I didnt know they made trolls in purple, nice avatar. Let me know when an all stalker team finishes the LRSF without Shivans or Vengeance.
Let me know when 8 stalkers are on the same team.
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Let me know when 8 stalkers are on the same team.
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im following you
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Like every time when I'm in the arena, cant use my nemesis staff. Whats wrong with using the nemesis staff? I dont know. Its just 1 power I cant seem to use.. maybe its because I'm unlucky?
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No temp powers from outside the arena function there, the vet reward powers are "permenant" temp powers and are not allowed.
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That sucks on many levels. The main level is the fun level. I think the nem staff has to be the best, all purpose weapon in the game. I've only had it for 2 months now, but it is instrumental in most of my PvE encounters.
I use it the way Dr Who uses his sonic screw driver: from picking locks in bank doors and reading news papers in mayham missions, saving team mates when I'm tanking (taunt aint what it used to be), to pulling single minions out of mobs to thin out their numbers. And every time it knocks someone down, a hero is allowed to be revived in the hospital. Its that good!
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And that's part of the reason why you aren't able to use them in the arena.
Its not a question of the devs allowing you to use them or not: that's not the decision they face. The question is: do you allow temp powers and veteran rewards in PvP and balance them for that use or do you disallow them and balance them just so they don't completely break PvE.
Basically, if the devs decided to allow veteran rewards in PvP, you wouldn't have the Nemesis staff as a veteran reward now.
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Let me know when 8 stalkers are on the same team.
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People have tried 8 person corr teams, brute, dom and stalker teams for the LRSF. IIRC corr, dom and stalker teams certainly have completed the LRSF (using vengeance, shivans and nukes in some combination).
LRSF has been done with 6 corruptors (stacked veng and one shivan, IIRC). I believe any team makeup can do it. The problem is, how often have those people played together? An "optimal" team can do it, but a pure PUG cannot.
I have made 4 attempts since my main hit 50. One was successful (we used 7 corruptors, and I mainly played taunt bot). The other three either aborted due to too many DCs (one during the Vindicators fight) or because people simply quit the first time they died.
I know an all-dom team did it, and an all-stalker team came close. I believe both used shivans and nukes.
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I know an all-dom team did it, and an all-stalker team came close.
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The all stalker team did, in fact, complete it.
Anyone got a ETA yet on this fix? It is truley needed fast. Arena team pvp is now decided by who dies first and who gathers for vengeance better and it sucks!!! Alot of teams out there are just relying on the stacked buff to play and a fix would put skill as the major factor back into team pvp.
It's probably down the road. it's a very difficult fix according to castle.
I know I really am not interested in large scale team pvp with this current issue. nothing more depressing than because of one gather, I become useless against my foes.
well if it's gonna be awhile till they fixing it I suggest practecing it.
Based on the previous attempt at removing vengeance stacking, I'd wager a guess that Nemesis will not be affected.