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For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.
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Will this be true of NPCs (Nemesis Lieutenants), as well?
If so, I can accept this.
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True. So true. If NPC's can do this, so can we. WTH ?
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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Whew!
Thanks for taking care of this hideous abuse!
Naturally you'll be eliminating the same abhorrent situation for the Nemesis on PvE right?????
Because otherwise, your motives would be highly questionable. I mean if stacked vengeance is wrong, it's wrong both for players and the AI of Nemesis. Feel free to announce that stacked veng has been wiped out for them and you'll be a hero for sure.
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Sniper Rifle from various sniper mobs still fires after you break LoS or hit them to interrupt it. Valkyrie has a version of MoG which certainly appears to have resistance/defense to Psi. Many AVs have tier-9s with no crash. Carnival of Shadows Illusionists and Master Illusionists Phase Shift while mezzed. Nemesis Lieutenants stack Vengance. DE Quartzes give +100% ToHit buff in a 50ft AoE, which is just absurd. PPD Psi-Lieutenants and Aurora Borealis have Levitate, but theirs is AoE. Longbow Sonic Wardens have an ally heal. There's probably a ton more that I missed.
But the thing is, all this is to balance the fact that the AI is dumb. It needs all the help it can get. 
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Phaseshift while mezzed is BS. There is no justification for that. Otherwise a HOLD is not rendering a baddy helpless like the power description says. Good AI or not. Natural intelligence (*Devs) letting this happen is the only reason and with all respect, that is unacceptable. It goes against what the power should be. It should be fixed.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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I'm calling for your brakes to quit on a curvy road
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Classy calling for the actual death of another human over a temp power in a GAME.
Your mother must be so proud.
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Ya she is, hows your car handling btw?
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If you've got some heavy -recharge on you, and the only thing you've got left is sands of mu, and that helps you survive, should that be nerfed? what about the nem staff, baseball bats, flamethrowers, or any other temp power that anyone has earned in the game?
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Go back and read the part where I said farmable. I'll add to that. The Vet Powers are balanced around permanent use. The shivans and bombs weren't BUT ARE BEING USED AS SUCH.
See the difference?
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So then would you suggest to make them all one-time use? What would that do to the people who are in a TF and are having a really difficult time with some AV? (take Lanaru, for instance) With shivys and nukes, that team that spent X number of hours (5-7 or more, depending on how well they did) would be able to actually finish the thing, instead of spending half the day and end up frustrated?
Or, what about the people who enjoy to solo and who come across an evil EB? with shivs and nukes, those people can overcome the EB and continue on their merry way?
so, my question is, are you calling for complete removal, or one-time use?
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Lanaruu was able to be defeated before shivans and nukes. We also have base teleporters and inspirations storage.
Soloing and EBs? Again, that's what Insps are for.
I am calling for the complete removal of shivans and warburg bombs. And Only shivans are warburg bombs. If not that, then nerf them to values equal to their now perma-use status.
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I'm calling for your brakes to quit on a curvy road
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Seek some profosonial help guy, you need it if you'd wish accually phisical harm on a person over something that happens in a videogame.... I'm SURE you'll come back and say you were joking, well, it was in really poor taste IMO. Sheesh.
And I happen to agree with Bill for most part on this issue. I've ALWAYS thought the shavrans were a tad on the powerful side... And needed to be "rebalanced". Not nessearily removed, but rebalanced. Or at least unrenewable.
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I'm not sure if i was joking or not, but i do know that if i got a pm saying something bad did happen, the amount of time I'd care would equal the amount of time it took me to delete the PM
With a balanced team the LRSF can be done in under a hour no shivans or nukes. Just have a good brute and competent leadership. If it takes more than a hour and a half I consider it a bad run.
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Nerfing the powers would be an injustice to the time I spend on a daily basis prepping for my RSFs.
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Creating an event that puts players in the mindset that they NEED to spend time daily farming temp power loot is an injustice to all of us that find any kind of farming abhorrent.
Be well, people of CoH.
this is all relevant to my interests
When the LRSF had level 54 heroes, we routinely won it with a very specialized team in less then 90 minutes without stacking vengance.
Now that the heroes are lvl 52, I completely agree with Maximum in that you need an aggro holding brute and a couple of corruptors but you don't need stacked vengance in order to win the event by any means.
The STF is the same way, we have run it on test multiple times and have only lost due to people having to quit or dc. All the AT's can participate and add value and again you don't need to stack vengance.
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Phaseshift while mezzed is BS. There is no justification for that. Otherwise a HOLD is not rendering a baddy helpless like the power description says. Good AI or not. Natural intelligence (*Devs) letting this happen is the only reason and with all respect, that is unacceptable. It goes against what the power should be. It should be fixed.
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Yeah if the npcs are going to do this, at least have them pop the BreakFree animation 
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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How about no stacking of Shivians, or Nukes, or Veng. Only one of each max active per team? (though it may not currently be possible per Castle's comment)
This keeps the soloist safe and makes the team thing a little more difficult.
Just my .02 inf for a middle of the road solution.
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NO
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Whew!
Thanks for taking care of this hideous abuse!
Naturally you'll be eliminating the same abhorrent situation for the Nemesis on PvE right?????
Because otherwise, your motives would be highly questionable. I mean if stacked vengeance is wrong, it's wrong both for players and the AI of Nemesis. Feel free to announce that stacked veng has been wiped out for them and you'll be a hero for sure.
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Just so everyone knows, the version of Vengeance that NPCs have is a completely different power than the one players have.
Players used to have that version (Casting Vengeance on yourself while defeated), but they didn't like it, and asked for it to be changed to what we have now.
So even if our version gets changed, it would be a whole nother pass (and probably not worth the time) to do it for Nemesis. Besides, theirs is probably Working As Intended and not bugged like ours.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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When the LRSF had level 54 heroes, we routinely won it with a very specialized team in less then 90 minutes without stacking vengance.
Now that the heroes are lvl 52, I completely agree with Maximum in that you need an aggro holding brute and a couple of corruptors but you don't need stacked vengance in order to win the event by any means.
The STF is the same way, we have run it on test multiple times and have only lost due to people having to quit or dc. All the AT's can participate and add value and again you don't need to stack vengance.
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Please let me know how you get the RSF to spawn with level 52 heroes in the final mission, because I do 2 of these a night, and I'd love to see them lower than 53.
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As pretty much everyone knows, despite my best efforts to prevent this power from stacking from multiple users, it can still be stacked.
At some point in the future, I *will* get code support to eliminate the problem. In the meantime, if people are abusing this loophole (it's an exploit but not an "Exploit" -- GM's and petitions won't do anything about it at this time) I suggest that you blacklist their team and simply do not engage them in PvP.
For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.
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Then fix the damn RSF please. Better yet?? I DARE a dev team to go beat it using no " super dev" special powers. Let's see?? Didn't posi admit you all had yet to kill hami??
I apologize for my vehemence on this matter but this all came about because the pvp guys cried " boo hoooo!!! No fair!! That team stacked veng!!!"
You dev's continually refer to " balance" yet rarely provide a balanced scenario. As to the matter of stacking veng? Pulling off a 3 stacked veng in a pvp match would be a sight to behold. I would say to the people that were able to do it " Wow, good team coordination!" Then? I de practice my rear off to try and replicate the action.The pvp people should shutup. Vengeance? Admit pvp community .. its a case of haves and have not's. You either know how or you don't.You either practice to pull it off or you don't. It's available to everyone. 
I may be in the minority because I run RSF frequently. If we didnt stack veng there wouldnt be multiple at's on our teams. Yes!!!! God forbid.... we take stalkers and dom's.If it's on your agenda Castle to nerf yet one more thing or fix yet another instance viewed as an "exploit"? I charge you to also fix the need for players to use what YOU view as a BAD bad thing.
Simple solution for veng in pvp has already been suggested for scheduled matches. Preveng in a match is definitely unfair but there are several suggestions for matches ( from what I have read in various threads) to prevent that from happening.
/rant over
Someone is so mad.
Vengeance was fixed to not stack some time ago. You complainers have already missed your window of opportunity for this. Seriously. People are using work-arounds and "exploits" (I use that word loosely) to get around the fix. This too will be fixed.
This thread was over before it began. Srsly.
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It's not needed for the LRSF. It's not needed anywhere. It's broken. The only need is the need to have it fixed.
I got a PM last night from the point man for a group that is going to make an LRSF attempt with no shivans, no nukes, no stacked vengeance, no granite brutes and no rads.
I wish them the best of luck and hope that they succeed. I did state in reply that if it takes longer than four hours, I'll still consider the LRSF a broken design. Much in the same way I consider the new Hamidon broken.
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:P
We're looking forward to giving this a shot. Now where did I put that petless Mastermind...
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It's not needed for the LRSF. It's not needed anywhere. It's broken. The only need is the need to have it fixed.
I got a PM last night from the point man for a group that is going to make an LRSF attempt with no shivans, no nukes, no stacked vengeance, no granite brutes and no rads.
I wish them the best of luck and hope that they succeed. I did state in reply that if it takes longer than four hours, I'll still consider the LRSF a broken design. Much in the same way I consider the new Hamidon broken.
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:P
We're looking forward to giving this a shot. Now where did I put that petless Mastermind...
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Hinodrase FTW!
Vengeance is just low on their priority list, I have proof!
hows bout jus make it so vengence is a self buff! then it cant be stacked noway! problem solved
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hows bout jus make it so vengence is a self buff! then it cant be stacked noway! problem solved
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Wow. That was easy. Nice fix Cuch.
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Nerfing the powers would be an injustice to the time I spend on a daily basis prepping for my RSFs.
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Creating an event that puts players in the mindset that they NEED to spend time daily farming temp power loot is an injustice to all of us that find any kind of farming abhorrent.
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The thing is though that not all missions and tasks are created equal.
The LRSF and States TF and Hami are tasks that require preparation and planning and various amounts of teamwork.
You don't need Shivans and Nukes for say...Faathim's TF (though our team on Pinnacle did use them to make it easier...beating Lanaru is 5 minutes through Shivans/Nukes is sweet 
) but for the LRSF and so on, why not?
It's not fun for the new player or casual player I am sure to have to get them, that's my only issue with that. 
But there needs to be some delineation of what a PuG can accomplish and harder tasks that require preparation of some sort.
My hero SG is levelling some stone tanks, rads and we are gathering nukes and Shivans for the upcoming States TF. Whether or not those will be sufficient, who knows.
The Devs are on the right track with the final encounter of the States TF (Recluse and towers). This makes the encounters more than:
-Bag of hit points with high regen and stupid attack numbers.
I think most games with high end content have raids or whatnot that require certain items... 
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
As far as vengencae goes it should read the best buff from
each category.
So if two cahracters slot vengence with a hit buff and the other
with defense buffs.
The overall effect should be the 1st Vengence's Hitbuff and gaining the second ones defence buff
The Legendary Cosmological Prince Reigar 53rd Illusion Control/Storm Summoning/Primal Forces Mastery/Incarnate
It's a dark and story night. That means something bad is happening out there
Too much arguing.
Shivans + stacked Vengeance is broken. This is obvious. Stacked Vengeance alone, is also broken. Shivans alone, I think is fine.
I use 'spare' Shivans when I am having a tough time fighting an EB or AV. I don't use stacked Vengeance at all. I certainly never use both at the same time.
With one exception. The final mission of the LRSF is broken, so as far as I am concerned, using a broken combination of powers to overcome it is the logical answer.
If a mission clicks the "You Lose!" button, then of course I'm going to click the "actually, I Win!" button in response.
I have no experience with stacking Vengeance in PvP. It sounds like a sad tactic to me. However I have a lot of experience with PvE, and I know that generally people enjoy a challenge and are not in the habit of bringing stacked Ven or Shivans to the Respec Trials, Patron Arcs, or other really difficult encounters. The exploit isn't even used in early missions of the LRSF, because it IS broken and just makes things too easy. Using it unbalances the game.
This is not true for the final LRSF mission, simply because that mission already breaks and unbalances the game *against* the players. The only way to make things fair to a reasonable PuG, semi-casual team or a team who doesn't enjoy torture is to redress the balance using broken tactics.
If you nerf Shivans and stacked Ven in PvE then players will either just go back to Stoners, Kins and debuffing Corrs; or they will find a different broken exploit like attacking from under the map or slotting a bizarre combination of IOs.
I don't use stacked Ven and Shivans because I get a kick out of "cheating", I use it because if I don't there is a huge chance that my team will give up and walk away after repeated wipes from those ridiculously powerful heroes.
Even with stacked Ven and Shivans, I'm literally *scared* to take the alpha those guys dish out. I was conditioned by the early LRSF days when BaB would run up to me and deal out over 3000HP damage in a single hit, or Numina's AoE alone could wipe an entire team *instantly*.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
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Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.
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Nice. I'll definitely enjoy it more when I no longer have to tell people, "Kill the Nemesis Lts LAST!!!"
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Whew!
Thanks for taking care of this hideous abuse!
Naturally you'll be eliminating the same abhorrent situation for the Nemesis on PvE right?????
Because otherwise, your motives would be highly questionable. I mean if stacked vengeance is wrong, it's wrong both for players and the AI of Nemesis. Feel free to announce that stacked veng has been wiped out for them and you'll be a hero for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sniper Rifle from various sniper mobs still fires after you break LoS or hit them to interrupt it. Valkyrie has a version of MoG which certainly appears to have resistance/defense to Psi. Many AVs have tier-9s with no crash. Carnival of Shadows Illusionists and Master Illusionists Phase Shift while mezzed. Nemesis Lieutenants stack Vengance. DE Quartzes give +100% ToHit buff in a 50ft AoE, which is just absurd. PPD Psi-Lieutenants and Aurora Borealis have Levitate, but theirs is AoE. Longbow Sonic Wardens have an ally heal. There's probably a ton more that I missed.
But the thing is, all this is to balance the fact that the AI is dumb. It needs all the help it can get.